Animats 3 hours ago

This encourages self-censorship, or what's called "anticipatory obedience".

YouTube has become much worse about censorship. Pepe's Towing, LA's main towing company for major truck accidents, complains that YouTube took down some of their videos. Their videos are simply detailed coverage of the complex but effective process by which large vehicles that had accidents are lifted, rotated upright, placed on their wheels or on a large dolly as necessary, and towed away. Their people wear body cams, like cops, their cranes have cameras, and sometimes they use a DJI drone. (They bring out the drone when someone drives off an embankment and they need to plan a difficult lift.) The main purpose of all the video is to settle arguments with insurance companies over the cost of recovery. But they started a YouTube channel for PR purposes.

Almost all this video is taken on public property on LA county roads and freeways, with the cooperation of the cops, CALTRANS, local fire departments, and other organizations that clean up other people's messes. These are very public activities, with traffic streaming by and sometimes news helicopters hovering overhead. Totally First Amendment protected. Not a violation of YouTube's stated policies.

So what's the YouTube censorship about? Preventing corporate embarrassment. Their older videos have clear pictures of truck doors with ownership info. Container markings. License plates. Pictures of damaged goods. Now. out of fear of being cancelled by YouTube, they're blurring everything identifiable. Recently someone rolled over a semitrailer full of melons, and they blurred out not just the trucking company info, but the labels on the melons. Which the people from Pepe's say is silly, but they don't want to fight with YouTube.

  • poemxo 2 hours ago

    I wonder when people in the west will start flocking to Telegram groups (or equivalent) to get the real information the way they do elsewhere.

    • closewith 30 minutes ago

      Outside the US, WhatsApp already fills that role, but like Telegram, "real information" is an optimistic descriptor.

    • anonym29 2 hours ago

      Trading one "private sector" state surveillance and narrative control platform for another isn't much of an improvement.

      That said, I hate to break it to you, but there is no real question of 'when', or even 'if'. The general public simply does not care, no matter how much abuse they are subjected to by mainstream platform operators.

      There will always be a minority who care enough to embrace decentralization, open source, good e2ee, but they are the exception to the vast majority, at least inside the US, who simply do not care enough to change their behavior.

      What percentage of Americans do you think would voluntarily, permanently relinquish their own fourth amendment rights for $5000? Scary thought experiment when you recall studies that have found only two thirds of Americans can name all three branches of government, or that fewer than one in four can name any right secured by the first amendment other than freedom of speech.

      https://studyfinds.org/constitution-americans-rights/

      • blooalien an hour ago

        > ... "only two thirds of Americans can name all three branches of government, or that fewer than one in four can name any right secured by the first amendment other than freedom of speech."

        Mere decades ago, not knowing this kinda stuff would get you failed in grade-school Civics class, and again in junior high, and yet again in high-school (at least where I grew up, here in the "Great NorthWest" Rocky Mountains area USA).

        Used to be that knowing the basics about how your government worked and what your rights and responsibilities are as a citizen was considered "required knowledge" (right alongside basic history, math, reading, etc) to help prepare you for "life in the real world".

Aurornis 6 hours ago

Note that CNN isn’t in trouble for reporting this, the person who exfiltrated the footage is.

Stealing security camera footage and giving (or possibly selling) it is a problem. This article tries to make a case that the law applied wasn’t correct on somewhat pedantic terms, but I don’t know enough about the law to know if they have a point or not.

I do know, however, that if you take private data from your employer and leak it (or sell it) you’re not going to be on the right side of the law. I have a hard time buying this article’s point that it was just “violating company policy”

  • johnhess 5 hours ago

    "the law" is the fulcrum this turns on.

    if you wrong your employer, for example by failing to do your job well, you are not a criminal to be prosecuted by the state. you may well deserve to lose that job though.

    here, wronging your employer is considered a criminal act.

    • JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago

      > if you wrong your employer, for example by failing to do your job well, you are not a criminal to be prosecuted by the state

      This is going out of one’s way to abuse the employer’s trust. Moreover, it’s stealing their stuff. If I take cash out of a till, my employer should have the option of pressing charges.

      Where I agree with you is that this isn’t computer fraud and abuse. It’s closer to theft. The law used to prosecute should be more banal.

      • Daviey a few seconds ago

        A prison officer has a sexual relationship with a prisoner, should they simply be fired or also have a jury heard criminal court process then a record?

        .. Not that it should be relevant, but now factor in the prison officer is female, newly qualified and the training college wrote to the prison to warn that the prison officer is not suitable to be a prison officer because they are not robust enough. The prisoner is also highly manipulative and has a documented history of romance with vulnerable females.

      • ghurtado 4 hours ago

        > it’s stealing their stuff.

        Then I'm sure your have a great explanation as to why they were charged with trespass and not theft.

        • JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago

          > I'm sure your have a great explanation as to why they were charged with trespass and not theft

          Literally said I think they’re charging this wrong.

      • [removed] 5 hours ago
        [deleted]
      • uoaei 5 hours ago

        "stuff" being technically, legally, IP

        • hluska 4 hours ago

          That’s unclear.

          Mr. Mbengue plead no contest to a trespass charge. He was represented by an attorney with some prosecutorial experience so I think we can assume he received qualified legal advice based upon the facts of the matter. Under terms of his no contest plea, if he stays out of trouble for a year he can have his record expunged.

          It sure looks like a plea bargain, in which case we’ll likely never know the actual charges the prosecution was prepared to proceed with. But there’s a clue in the article - when the report was provided to the Intercept, the locations of the security cameras were redacted. When CNN aired the clip, they apparently aired information that identified where that camera was located.

          We’ll most likely never know the original charge the prosecution was prepared to proceed with, but the US takes airport security very seriously (as every country should). If taking a no contest on a trespass was considered an out, I wonder if the other charge started with a vowel like ‘e’.

      • burnished 4 hours ago

        It is in no way close to theft because theft involves depriving the victim of some good or asset.

    • opello 5 hours ago

      And it seems like that law requires malicious intent. I wonder how that would be proven here?

      • hluska 4 hours ago

        Section A of 18.2-152.4 reads:

        “A. It is unlawful for any person, with malicious intent, or through intentionally deceptive means and without authority, to:”

        And Mr. Mbengue plead no contest to this charge, so he did not admit guilt but agreed to be punished as if he was guilty. He had an attorney with prosecutorial experience retained for his criminal proceeding so we can assume he entered that plea upon receiving qualified legal advice. Under terms of his plea, if he keeps his nose clean for a year, he can apply to have the charge expunged from his record.

        So, this looks like a plea bargain. But since he plead no contest, the prosecution doesn’t have to prove anything.

        • [removed] 3 hours ago
          [deleted]
  • ghurtado 4 hours ago

    [flagged]

    • tomhow 2 hours ago

      Be kind. Don't be snarky. Edit out swipes.

      Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

      Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

      Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

  • kurikuri 5 hours ago

    > I do know, however, that if you take private data from your employer and leak it (or sell it) you’re not going to be on the right side of the law. I have a hard time buying this article’s point that it was just “violating company policy”

    If I were to copy the files on my work device and distribute them, I would be in violation of NDAs which could be pursued as civil offenses. If I didn’t have those NDAs, my employer could try and pursue something in court, along with firing me, but it wouldn’t be a straightforward suit.

    None of these are (or at least, should be) criminal situations.

    • ofjcihen 5 hours ago

      As a DLP professional: please don’t tell people this. You can absolutely be arrested and prosecuted for this.

      • opello 5 hours ago

        What's the charge for the arrest? I thought legally intellectual property wasn't "real property." If it actually was a trade secret, it might make more sense.

    • noitpmeder 5 hours ago

      I mean in the first case you're literally stealing from your employer. If that doesn't make you a criminal for theft I don't know what does

      • opello 5 hours ago

        But the footage isn't "real property" as I understand it. The only thing the theft does is deprive the company from the opportunity to sell the footage themselves, and it's not exactly like selling security camera footage is the business model of many/any(?) company.

        If the harm is that the company couldn't sell the footage itself, the remedy should be giving the company the money from the sale.

neya 2 hours ago

> thanks in part to CNN’s initial failure to redact some CCTV text that described the location of the camera

This is the most important bit. That journalist had one fucking job. Technically, their job was handed to them in a platter. Now their incompetence is going to cost someone else's livelihood and possibly, life. What a sad state of affairs.

  • int0x29 2 hours ago

    Ehhh. It was from a fixed position CCTV camera. It was going to be found

qingcharles 3 hours ago

Many states have super vague computer abuse statutes. Illinois' law specifically states it is a crime to violate the ToS of a network (e.g. a web site).

Also, if the defendant here is literally innocent (i.e. the statutory wording does not apply to his actions) and his lawyer still advised him to plead no contest, then he might have grounds for the conviction to be overturned. I remember that Subway Jared had some of his charges reversed because he was technically innocent of them, but his lawyer stated that he didn't check any of the evidence before recommending a guilty plea.

And, in a further ridiculous twist of justice, if the defendant pleads to something that isn't even a crime (e.g. the state simply made the statute up, or adjusted the wording so it wasn't what the law said), then you can't get that reversed if you knowingly plead to it. I remember cases where defendants pled guilty to non-crimes, but you're cooked at that point because you agreed to it.

MBCook 4 hours ago

Has anyone involved been within 10 feet of a computer in the last 15 years?

The CFAA applies!

It’s like postal or wire fraud. You’re going to do it somehow in just about any possible crime. They’ll get you.

It wasn’t/shouldn’t have been a crime? They’ll get you anyway, if they want.

dooglius 4 hours ago

Overreach for sure, but I don't buy at all that rubbernecking is "obviously of public interest"; hardly the Pentagon Papers we're looking at here.

ocdtrekkie 6 hours ago

I'd say leaking an employer's internal data when not whistleblowing is definitely cause for termination, in the "no future employer should trust you" way, but yeah, calling this a CFAA case is a stretch.

  • zugi 5 hours ago

    Agreed, he could be fired and even sued by his former employer for damages.

    But calling using your cell phone to video record a security monitor "computer fraud" and "trespass" is clearly ridiculous.

Validark 6 hours ago

[flagged]

  • iowemoretohim 6 hours ago

    Why is leaking the video the right thing? There were multiple videos of the incident including footage from a EarthCam live camera. And the NTSB released multiple videos as part of their investigation. The video wasn't leaked in order to stop a coverup.

    • s_dev 5 hours ago

      >Why is leaking the video the right thing?

      Because it's in the public interest. The law doesn't state what's right only what's permitted.

    • ajross 5 hours ago

      Isn't that an even stronger argument that the leak shouldn't be criminal?

      • JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago

        No, for the same that stealing an item isn’t okay because there is more in the back.

  • IncreasePosts 6 hours ago

    Leaking crash footage to CNN isn't clearly "the right thing". Except for CNN I guess, who probably got a lot of views and clicks from the footage.

    • an_guy 6 hours ago

      A lot of views from general population rather than being buried.

      Are you suggesting such incidents should not be reported on or captured?

      • iowemoretohim 6 hours ago

        The person got paid to grant exclusive rights to the videos to CNN, this wasn't just posting to social media to spread the word.

      • jazzyjackson 6 hours ago

        bro, no one is suggesting we should keep plane crashes secret, but yeah I do find it a little distasteful to turn on the TV and see the moment hundreds of people were killed.