Nintendo announces the Switch 2 [video]
(youtube.com)750 points by HelloUsername 2 days ago
750 points by HelloUsername 2 days ago
They’ve got the weird shit covered still, apparently the joy cons in this gen can be used as mice.
Was heavily rumoured/leaked and this teaser video literally shows them gliding along a surface.
How Nintendo will leverage that functionality, who could honestly say, but that’s the genius of keeping a toy company mindset in an industry full of sports car company mindsets.
That last sentence is worth an essay of its own. Everyone else keeps pumping resources into being photo-realistic blah-blah-blah without nearly enough attention to "is this fun"?
One of my favorite video essay's on this is "Nintendo - Putting Play First" by Game Makers Toolkit [1]. It goes into when making a game, Nintendo first determines the mechanic they want to focus on; jumping, throwing a hat, shooting paint, etc and finding out how to make it fun, then building and iterating on the idea.
It's how they can keep putting out essentially the same games but are completely different.
I saw an interesting analysis years ago about whether or not the most powerful console 'won' in each generation (i.e. whether or not being the most powerful console of your generation leads to success).
Generally speaking, no, it doesn't actually affect things, and in several cases (e.g. the Game Boy, the Wii, and the Switch come to mind) the objectively 'worse' console (from a tech perspective) was more successful by a country mile.
Strongly agreed. When I think of the best Nintendo products the words “fun” and “play” spring to mind.
AAA gaming on the other hand, either resembles sports, shallow short-form media, or Oscar-bait melodrama. Very little fun to be had.
What ever happened to fun and play?
I can't remember where I read this, but I came across someone talking about the fact that these AAA photo realistic games are hugely expensive to make, but if you look at what young people are spending their time playing, they're games like Fornite, Minecraft and Roblox. As soon as I read this, it clicked for me.
I have two teenagers (15 & 17) and this is exactly right. My son plays games all the time and although he's played Elden Ring and GTA and other games of that sort, over the years I would say 80% of his time has been Minecraft and this other 2D game with a platformer vibe whose name I forget that has procedurally generated maps. He's frequently calling me over to his computer to check out his latest architectural creation in Minecraft. I know it's not just him, because he plays multiplayer with his buddies as well, and again, a lot of it is these games with quite frankly primitive graphics. But they're fun!
I'm a huge Nintendo/Mario fan but I've recently been playing through Astro Bot on my PS5 and I must say, when you combine super fun mechanics with amazing graphics and performance, it's quite an experience! But there isn't nearly enough content like this on the non-Nintendo consoles, so point is definitely not lost on me.
I play one game at a time for about a month and then move to the next. When I first played Mario Odyssey on my switch I was over the moon with how much pure fun it was compared to all the good looking and serious RPGs I played in the decade before. I had forgotten games can be this enjoyable. Nowadays I try to do these super fun games in between my souls-like sessions.
Focusing on tech or unoriginal production values (that's photo real! You don't need a great art director, you need a photo..) is appealing to companies because it's predictable vs the creative uncertainty and subjectivity of "fun".
Astro Bot won game of the year because it had amazing graphics and physics and had Mario-tier fun. The team actually made a cryptic shout out to Nintendo at the award ceremony.
Nintendo has great games, but the resolution on TVs, even cheap ones, is outstanding now and it goes to waste using a Switch.
Playing a great game that also uses what the TV has on offer is really the best experience. If we get 4k and ray tracing on Switch I’ll be stoked.
The “is this fun” part is the reason why I bought a Switch in the first place. Still the only console I’ve ever owned
I love the “just start playing” ethos of most Nintendo games. Reminds me of the games I used to play as a kid. No long story or exposition - just a game load screen and a start button
the teaser also has a clear shot of the side and there's a sensor that looks identical to an optical mouse sensor. It seems really rough from an ergonomics perspective but maybe there are accessories for that. It could also go the way of the IR camera where it sees niche uses in a couple of random games but isn't really a staple of the console.
https://www.polygon.com/nintendo-switch-2/509821/nintendo-sw...
Not just Nintendo. The PlayStation 4 controller had that touchpad in the middle that also clicked in to act as a button. I played a lot of games that used it as a button (usually to open a map, or something) and don't remember a single game that used it as a touchpad.
As a mice or a air mouse. The smart tv stuff is limited by a remote control from 1980 (more or less, what changed?). I'd make lifestyle apps for the switch if they enable it.
Nintendo has tended to maintain at most 1 generation of backwards compatibility, though you can get some fuzzy ideas of "generations" in a few cases.
Game Boy Color: plays original Game Boy games
Game Boy Advance: plays Game Boy and Game Boy Color games
Nintendo DS: plays Game Boy Advance games
Nintendo DSi: plays Nintendo DS games
Nintendo 3DS: plays Nintendo DS and DSi games
Nintendo New 3DS: plays Nintendo DS, DSi, and (old) 3DS games
Nintendo Wii: plays GameCube games
Nintendo Wii U: plays Wii games
Based on that list, they have tended really only to do that on mobile platforms. It was one of my favorite things about the platform, but it always felt like this was partially thanks to the older hardware still getting games well into the new hardware's life in many cases. Major games, I believe Pokemon has done this a few times?
Most of their home consoles were complete departures from previous hardware.
NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube all did not work with prior games were fairly different (ok admittedly the outward difference between the NES and the SNES were minimal but still no compatability).
So honestly I think it was more notable that the Wii could play Gamecube games than the other way around as far as Nintendo's track record goes.
3DS has hardware support for GBA games too, actually, though these only got distributed via the Ambassador program.
Also had VC for most of Nintendo's platform.
I know, and you can basically restore full GameCube compatibility on the Wii U via Nintendont. Neither of them let you use the actual physical games from the old system, and needing to perform jailbreak hacks to use them and load ROMs on anyway doesn't count as much as out-of-the-box compatibility.
>Nintendo New 3DS: plays Nintendo DS, DSi, and (old) 3DS games
I know HN doesn't have any room for sarcasm but I couldn't not laugh trying to remember what were the NEW 3ds games. Sure the second pad made the 3DS way more comfortable to play, and 3D was a bit better, but we all got scammed here regarding games supporting this new hardware.
IIRC Xenoblade Chronicles and Fire Emblem Warriors were the only ones I really cared about. Lots of people held onto their old hardware; probably wasn't worth excluding them.
The biggest advantage of owning a New 3DS turned out to be the huge performance uplift. A fair number of games ran at double the framerate or only supported 3D mode on the newer hardware. Code Name STEAM had substantially less downtime on the New models because the AI could process turns faster. Several reviews for Hyrule Warriors Legends flat out said not to buy the game unless you had a "New" model due to performance issues.
You probably know this but most of those aren’t really generations. Game boy color, DSi, new 3ds are just upgrades of the same generation kinda like PS5 vs PS5 Pro.
"Generations" is a fairly subjective term all things considered, and I basically acknowledged it by saying these things are fuzzy.
As the sibling post mentions, they all have exclusives, however, which is something Sony has refused to allow for PS4 Pro and PS5 Pro updates. And even though Nintendo considers the GBC to be the same console as the original GB when it comes to tallying sales figures, it's a rather significant upgrade. Slightly better than NES full color games, double the processor speed. It made a compelling upgrade and target for developers.
Although funnily enough, in most regions Pokemon Gold and Silver were not actually GBC exclusive and would run on the original Game Boy, despite arguably being the game the GBC was most promoted for and having colour (which didn't work on the DMG, obviously) as their major features.
The Korean release of Gold and Silver, along with Crystal, did actually require a GBC.
> The only real issue the Switch had was being able to keep up with some of the games put on it with FPS but it still had beautiful games (like Tears of the Kingdom)
A bit of an aside, but... Tears of the Kingdom looks just awful to me. My kids played Breath of the Wild and when they got Tears of the Kingdom I walked in and was astonished at the graphic quality. I think I had just finished Doom 2016 at the time and I felt like I was rewinding the clock 15 years in graphical quality. I've heard literally zero other people have this complaint, so I suspect it's just my take on the aesthetics of the game.
I think the state-of-the-art on Switch is really Panic Button's work on the Doom and Doom Eternal ports, but those are frame locked at 30 FPS, so I think getting a spec bump in Switch 2 would certainly help the demographic that plays games like that. My family has left the Switch ecosystem for Steam Deck, and that does a lot better. Would be interesting to compare with the Switch 2 in terms of specs.
Tears of the Kingdom's only graphical issue is framerate and resolution. Maybe some ground textures.
If you have issues with it it's entirely with the style, the graphics are fine.
Lack of ram meant it could only handle a couple trees at a time
To me, Nintendo is more about gameplay then graphics and i hope it stays that way.
I would say gameplay and art style instead of what the rest of the industry calls graphics (polygon count basically).
Nearly all Nintendo (game freak is not technically Nintendo) games look beautiful thanks to having a great art style instead of just focusing on higher polygon count.
I agree with you, but in some newer games it just doesn't make sense to me.
They want good graphics but the Switch can't handle them, but they still try to make them.
For example, Pokemon Scarlet & Violet.
Gameplay and the game design for me personally is really great, but I can't stand the graphics. I would rather play on worse graphics just to not have constant frame drops and in some parts of the game N64 graphics and in some 4K ones.
Exactly. If you want to be dazzled with AAA titles running at 120Hz/60fps/4k then there are plenty of ways to spend your money. Frankly that segment of the industry feels like a treadmill of never ending upgrades for the same basic game.
My whole family shares and island in animal crossing, firing up some arcade brawlers on the couch. We’ve been playing the hell out of our switch for years and never once have we complained that it’s not flashy enough.
I can see the lower quality of the rendering, but the graphical content is stunning in my opinion. The art in the game inspires me a lot more than more photorealistic games tend to. I think they did a stellar job given the resource constraints and the scale of the game.
It's a beautiful game, one of the first to use programmable shaders, and one of the earliest that doesn't look dated at all. The shaders make everything look smooth without looking blurry.
Loading screens are hidden, it's not like the contemporaneous PS2 game Mafia where you wait a few minutes to load, spend a few minutes driving across town on a mission to shoot up some people at a restaurant, get yourself shot up, then have to wait for it to load all over again.
> I bet they will release a more expensive OLED version later.
I would imagine the only reason they didn't launch with the OLED is to drive sales in the second half of the product lifecycle. If the PS4 equivalent claim is true that will be great, the Switch 1 was anemic at launch and borderline painful graphics in 2025.
I just hope its powerful enough that Indies can target it along with the Steam Deck, rather than just hope an pray like they did for Switch 1's late lifecycle. The amount of <30fps indie titles on there was sad.
Man that's 100% on the indie dev. Most people don't buy indie games for cutting-edge graphics. You start pushing the envelope, you get what you get.
The Switch was weak when it came out. Decent PCs from that same year can handle most of these games just fine. It's not really the developer's fault when the Switch is the only platform with issues, and they're usually not "pushing the envelope" in any way. The fault here is Nintendo's, they didn't prioritize support for ported games, though admittedly they couldn't really foresee the indie game boom, since it wasn't nearly as big of a deal at the time, especially in Japan.
First-party Nintendo titles are more or less the only games that actually manage to "push the envelope" on the Switch, and that's because they have the resources and experience to do it. Even then, some games end up constrained compared to the original vision, because the hardware can't handle it no matter how much insider knowledge you have about how it works and how to use it right.
What a bizarre thing to say. People buy indie games for all sorts of different reasons, and sometimes it's the beautiful art style.
"Beautiful art style" and "cutting-edge graphics" are nowhere near synonymous. They are orthogonally related at best (and many people would even argue that they are opposing goals).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS#DS_family_Comparis...
* Nintendo DS, 2004
* Nintendo DS Lite, 2006
* Nintendo DSi, 2008
* Nintendo DSi XL, 2009
* Nintendo 3DS, 2011
* Nintendo 3DS XL, 2012
* New Nintendo 3DS, 2017
* New Nintendo 3DS XL, 2020
Hopefully the Switch as a platform represents the end of the line. SD cards can be up to 2Tb, and that should be enough for anybody ;) So I don’t see why they would need to change up formats again.
OLED seems like a no brainer for a lifecycle refresh at the ~3-3.5 year mark. Particularly because they've done it before, and Valve very recently proved it's still a viable way to boost sales. Nintendo has had 7 years to prepare for this launch they likely have every mario, zelda, metroid release date pinned to a particular month and year through at least year 5. A display upgrade mid cycle is almost a given.
Honestly, if it keeps the price down I'm all for it. My switch spends 99% of the time in the dock, because I would far rather play with the pro controller on my big TV than play it in handheld mode. So I find the quality of the screen kinda irrelevant.
Me too, I usually upgrade to the latest and greatest with Nintendo systems (specifically if it's an improvement, the "new 3DS" but not like the 2DS for example)
But I never bought an OLED because I couldn't justify it for the amount I play my Switch handheld (almost never)
> Iterating instead of throwing out everything with each new version. There is a part of me that is going to miss the, do weird shit and see what works, Nintendo that brought us some really fun ideas. But a stable Nintendo just being able to continue putting out great games has its advantages.
Yeah, I've always felt that Nintendo being willing to try out cool stuff is something that will be very sad to lose. The Wii, DS, and the Switch have all been very cool consoles. I personally only buy Nintendo consoles, as I feel like everything else eventually gets ported to PC anyways.
The games are crippled by how archaic and underpowered the hardware is. TOTK is beautiful _despite_ the hardware limiting its true potential, robbing world class studios, and forcing them to cut corners.
It’s indefensible considering how much legendary IP that potato is holding hostage.
The good news is that the best Nintendo platform is also the best mobile platform: The Steam Deck. It plays Nintendo games better than Nintendo consoles do, and as a bonus, it plays everything else.
Have you ever tried to dock a Steam deck to a TV?
Have you ever tried to use physical media with a Steam deck?
Have you ever tried to get 5 hours of battery life with a Steam deck?
Have you ever put a Steam deck in your pocket? (I do have big pockets, but at least with the Switch Lite, it's possible.)
Nintendo will be just fine. I personally will never use a platform that can kick me out on a whim, or could screw me the moment Gabe Newell gets hit by a bus.
I hope it has at LEAST 12 GB of RAM. Hopefully 16 or 24 GB.
> I am curious about the specs, but honestly don't care much.
The specs seems to be leaked here <https://thegamepost.com/nintendo-switch-2-full-specs-appears...>
TL;DR
- CPU: Arm Cortex-A78C 8 cores Unknown L1/L2/L3 cache sizes
- GPU: Nvidia T239 Ampere 1 Graphics Processing Cluster (GPC) 12 Streaming Multiprocessors (SM) 1534 CUDA cores 6 Texture Processing Clusters (TPC) 48 Gen 3 Tensor cores 2 RTX ray-tracing cores
- RAM: 12 GB LPDDR5
Only 2 ray-tracing cores makes you wonder why they’d even bother.
Any actual game devs wanna chime in on whether that’s enough to actually do any ray tracing?
That spec seems fishy given both Ampere and Ada both have 1 RT core in each SM. 12 RT cores would make much more sense. The 1534 Cuda cores is also weird since 128x12 would be 1536. ALSO the leak says "Nvidia T239 Ampere (RTX 20 Series)" but Ampere debuted in the RTX 30 Series.
The leaks are a little inconsistent on this one.
On one hand, the base architecture is Ampere, but it's been repeatedly rumored that there are various backports from Lovelace. It's a weird mixture of the two, alone with some unique parts never seen elsewhere (a file decompression engine that accelerates LZMA, according to kernel commits).
It's hard to say then how powerful these raytracing cores are, or how many are even necessary for simple but beautiful effects. It's also worth remembering that the Switch bakes the graphics drivers into the game itself, uses data structures and shaders more native to the GPU without compilation, and has a custom low level graphics API called NVN (and NVN2), so performance is not necessarily linear compared to a PC.
Unfortunately for them, they are subject to the most interest from emulation devs by far.
Let me just say what I'm seeing here... Folks can correct me, or add their own observations
* Screen is bigger
* Seems like it has a new texture
* USB-C port (on the bottom?)
* Another USB-C port (on the top?)
* Headphone jack
* Pull-out stand, supports multiple positions
* Bigger controllers
* New coloring on the controllers
* The built-in top buttons on the hold-it-sideways configuration appear to be nicer
* The controllers have a custom port to connect, and a little magnet-looking thing next to it
* The controllers seem like they can slide on tables like a mouse
* The controllers snap into the screen, rather than sliding down to lock
* Dock looks similar to the old one
* Controllers can slide into a pro grip, like before
* Physical Switch games slide in like they used to
Anything else?
This is the comment I was looking for. Entirely because the trailer makes it super unclear to me if they fixed the "port on the bottom" issue. There's definitely one on the bottom. It looked to me like there might be 2. But that the other way they fixed this issue was by changing the stand so it could lie better in a way that one could charge while playing.
NVM, just saw it in one of the flips around. There's definitely a port on the top. Glad they fixed this.
Some new games will work on S2, but not S1, most S1 games will work on S2. Glad they didn't go MS route of forcing compatibility for games releasing the higher powered platform to run on the lower powered platform.
MS didn't force compatibility between generations either.
The series X and series S are the same generation. Wherever it was smart to start into this generation with a 3+ yrs old underperforming el-cheapo chipset is another question...
But for what it's worth, Nintendo has done the same decision according to the hardware leaks, they're just missing the equivalent to the Series X. (Which makes sense as it's a mobile device, so they don't want to gobble up electricity)
I personally agree that it was/is a terrible idea to start into a new generation with differently performing systems though. You can definitely release a "pro" version later for extra performance - but with the baseline being so underperforming as the series S... It never really had a chance, and most reviewers even said as much when they were initially announced.
The Series S may as well be an older gen, it is hobbled in ways that prevent it from actually running optimally. It has notably limited releases on xbox.
I assume when they said that only most games are compatible, the exceptions would be the ones that require the OG Switch's physical hardware. From what I heard Ringfit and Labo were only compatible with the OG Switch (not even the existing Switch OLED) because they're designed to fit specifically with its design.
That would be pretty great if that's the only limitation.
Would be cool if you could still pair old gen controllers to the new switch for things like ring fit.
You're probably right.
At first I thought it was a dimpled magnet. Now it looks more like a lens covering a projector and another covering the receiver.
I've had a lot of frustration with Switch joy-cons. Not only drift, which has claimed a number of them, but also issues with the console not recognizing when they are attached, and one pair that for some reason the switch won't recognize when trying to use in the horizontal orientation. No doubt my kids have subjected it to hard use and probably a drop or two, but still frustrating.
It looks like they've added some reinforcement to the joysticks, and changed the connection with the main body to be magnetic instead of sliding in and out (which causes wear and tear on the connectors over time). I hope the Switch 2 is more robust than the original Switch.
Some extra horsepower would also be appreciated. Recently we were trying to play Switch Sports with 4 players, and even my kids who are generally oblivious to graphical fidelity and framerate were complaining that it was basically unplayable in 4-player split screen.
RE horizontal - there is a ribbon cable that can literally fracture which causes the Zr and Zl buttons to quit working which only really manifests when trying to use 1 joycon horizontally (personally when Mario party happens).
The repair takes about 20 minutes the first time you do it and the ribbon cable is on amazon for about $7.
> Not only drift, which has claimed a number of them, but also issues with the console not recognizing when they are attached, and one pair that for some reason the switch won't recognize when trying to use in the horizontal orientation.
Yeah... I've repaired our joycons so many times (they all ended up getting the hall sensor joysticks from gulikit, some got new batteries), and despite this and actually not even heavy play time on them, the pairing is absolutely brutal. Definitely my most disliked aspect of the Switch.
We use gulikit controllers with the console pretty much exclusively. The price/performance ratio seemed right, I liked the first one we tried, and so I've just stuck with them.
Can wholeheartedly recommend swapping the sticks on the joycons with hall-effect ones from Gulikit. Made an immense difference for mine who were suffering from drift.
My original GameCube controller has zero issues after 20 years.
I don't like the aesthetic as much as the Switch 1. Looks a little too sleek, too monochrome, not Nintendo-y enough. Other than the splash of color around the thumbsticks it looks like any number of those handheld Steam Deck-alikes that have been coming out.
That said I always wait for the special Zelda editions of Nintendo's consoles, so I don't know that I have standing to complain.
The current Switch had an alternative monochrome (grey) version from the start, so I guess there's a chance the alternative version of the new one would be colorful.
It's been a while, but from my recollection that was the main version at launch. It's what I got, anyways. I don't remember the red and blue joycons showing up until later.
The switch had the red and blue from launch. In the reveal trailer they only showed the grey, but then in the switch presentation they revealed the red and blue. I don't quite remember, but I think from then on they mainly used that in marketing. It could be the same situation here, but the fact that the joycons already have a hint of blue and red makes me think this will be the only version, as it's sort of a mix between the 2 versions of the original switch.
Personally I like it. I choose the grey version of the switch, and I think making the joycons the exact same colour as the system this time looks way better. Also I like the splash of colour rather than it being entirely grey/black.
I know for a fact they had the grey and colorful models on launch day, I bought the model with the red and blue joycons at mignight on launch day at my local BestBuy. The promo video in this article[1] shows some folks playing bomberman with those joycons about 2/3 in.
1: https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/13/14241960/nintendo-switch-l...
I personally like the new color scheme. It says "I'm mature now, but still playful". Also, all black is less distracting when you're trying to concentrate on a bigger screen which needs you to move your eyeballs.
Also, the new controllers look more "freedom friendly", if you pardon the pun. IOW, they iterated them so that they're more useful when they are detached.
I prefer just "playful" to "mature but still playful". Something about the straightforwardness of "this is a toy for people of all ages, but it is still a toy" speaks to me.
Your taste/view is as valid and correct as mine.
If these things could be standardized, we would have only one design for every category of item, possibly from different brands.
Since it can't, we have this thing called design and art, which is a good thing :)
> Also, the new controllers look more "freedom friendly", if you pardon the pun. IOW, they iterated them so that they're more useful when they are detached.
I am a little concerned about that connector for the controls. I hope they have designed it to be sturdy. After working on broken Switch 1s a lot of USB C ports were abused by users.
Nintendo is not Nintendo-y enough for a while now. The switch system UI is bland and on launch the gray switch was the one being presented.
It's so odd to see Nintendo who hasn't competed on hardware specs for decades to release new console without atleast some gimmick(s) to sell their severely underpowered hardware.
Absolute zero gimmicks and zero excitement.
I personally dont care for gimmicks, but I expect them from Nintendo.
People are speculating that you can use the controllers like a computer mouse. You can see an allusion to that towards the end of the video.
Yeah, I am not a big fan of the Switch UI. They really took out the "surprise and delight" compared to the Wii U and 3DS. Very bland and straightforward, and yet somehow awfully slow and laggy.
There's a very good reason for this: The whole OS is under 400MB. Every Nintendo Switch game cartridge comes with a full copy of the necessary OS on it.
Every game card is playable, no matter how out of date the Switch is, without any internet connection.
I'll take that kind of functionality before "surprise and delight." We might get "surprise and delight" this generation though, if in part because the change to a modified Samsung NAND over Macronix might be cheaper at larger capacities if rumors are correct.
I think this is aimed at a slightly older audience than the "regular" switch.
This is more like a switch "pro", and I assume a switch 2 lite and such will follow.
This is like the 3ds XL, which in terms of hardware was a HUUUUGGE upgrade to the 3ds, but they didn't really mention it anywhere.
What do you mean HUUUGE upgrade? The only difference between the 3DS and the 3DS XL is the battery. Same with the New 3DS XL and New 3Ds.
You might be getting confused because the New 3DS (which was a hardware upgrade) mostly sold in XL version in the US. The non-XL model was sold mostly as limited special editions.
Happy to see that Nintendo is treating the switch more like how they traditionally handled their mobile platforms instead of their consoles.
Iterating instead of throwing out everything with each new version. There is a part of me that is going to miss the, do weird shit and see what works, Nintendo that brought us some really fun ideas. But a stable Nintendo just being able to continue putting out great games has its advantages.
I am curious about the specs, but honestly don't care much. The only real issue the Switch had was being able to keep up with some of the games put on it with FPS but it still had beautiful games (like Tears of the Kingdom). So as long as it is actually a decent spec bump I am happy and have zero care to compare it to the other consoles (but I am sure people are going too and scream that it is "underpowered").
The biggest thing I am curious about, will it be OLED since that will be disappointing to go back to non OLED from the OLED Switch. And Price.