cmarschner 17 hours ago

Befuddling that this happened again. It’s not the first time

- Paul Manafort court filing (U.S., 2019) Manafort’s lawyers filed a PDF where the “redacted” parts were basically black highlighting/boxes over live text. Reporters could recover the hidden text (e.g., via copy/paste).

- TSA “Standard Operating Procedures” manual (U.S., 2009) A publicly posted TSA screening document used black rectangles that did not remove the underlying text; the concealed content could be extracted. This led to extensive discussion and an Inspector General review.

- UK Ministry of Defence submarine security document (UK, 2011) A MoD report had “redacted” sections that could be revealed by copying/pasting the “blacked out” text—because the text was still present, just visually obscured.

- Apple v. Samsung ruling (U.S., 2011) A federal judge’s opinion attempted to redact passages, but the content was still recoverable due to the way the PDF was formatted; copying text out revealed the “redacted” parts.

- Associated Press + Facebook valuation estimate in court transcript (U.S., 2009) The AP reported it could read “redacted” portions of a court transcript by cut-and-paste (classic overlay-style failure). Secondary coverage notes the mechanism explicitly.

A broader “history of failures” compilation (multiple orgs / years) The PDF Association collected multiple incidents (including several above) and describes the common failure mode: black shapes drawn over text without deleting/sanitizing the underlying content. https://pdfa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/High-Security-PD...

  • __alexs 2 hours ago

    This has happened so many times I feel like the DoJ must have some sort of standardised redaction pipeline to prevent it by now. Assuming they do, why wasn't it used?

    • srean an hour ago

      I am happy with their lack of expertise and hope it stays that way, because I cannot remember a single case where redactions put the citizenry at a better place for it.

      Of course if it's in the middle of an investigation it can spoil the investigation, allow criminals to cover their tracks, allow escape.

      In such case the document should be vetted by competent and honest officials to judge whether it is timely to release it, or whether suppressing it just ensures that investigation is never concluded, extending a forever renewed cover to the criminals.

    • themafia an hour ago

      Secure systems are not exactly the right environment for quick release and handling. So documents invariably get onto regular desktops with off the shelf software used by untrained personnel.

  • heavyset_go 5 hours ago

    I want to believe this is malicious compliance.

    • cmarschner 3 hours ago

      Since hundreds of people were involved the most likely explanation is incompetence

      • thdrtol 2 hours ago

        Once I worked for a company that got a quote in the form of a Word document. Turned out it had history turned on and quotes to competitors could be recovered.

        There is a lot of incompitence when it comes to file formats.

      • ndsipa_pomu 3 hours ago

        Having lots of people involved means that it's more likely to be malicious compliance or deniable sabotage. It only needs one person who disagrees with the redactions to start doing things that they know will allow info to leak.

  • throwup238 10 hours ago

    > - Associated Press + Facebook valuation estimate in court transcript (U.S., 2009) The AP reported it could read “redacted” portions of a court transcript by cut-and-paste (classic overlay-style failure). Secondary coverage notes the mechanism explicitly.

    What happens in a court case when this occurs? Does the receiving party get to review and use the redacted information (assuming it’s not gagged by other means) or do they have to immediately report the error and clean room it?

    Edit: after reading up on this it looks like attorneys have strict ethical standards to not use the information (for what little that may be worth), but the Associated Press was a third party who unredacted public court documents in a separate Facebook case.

    • jdadj 6 hours ago

      > What happens in a court case when this occurs? Does the receiving party get to review and use the redacted information (assuming it’s not gagged by other means) or do they have to immediately report the error and clean room it?

      Typically, two copies of a redacted document are submitted via ECF. One is an unredacted but sealed copy that is visible to the judge and all parties to the case. The other is a redacted copy that is visible to the general public.

      So, to answer what I believe to be your question: the opposing party in a case would typically have an unredacted copy regardless of whether information is leaked to the general public via improper redaction, so the issue you raise is moot.

    • throw101010 27 minutes ago

      > strict ethical standards to not use the information (for what little that may be worth)

      If it's worth so little to your eyes/comprehension you will have no problem citing a huge count of cases where lawyers do not respect their obligations towards the courts and their clients...

      That snide remark is used to discredit a profession in passing, but the reason you won't find a lot of examples of this happening is because the trust clients have to put in lawyers and the legal system in general is what makes it work, and betraying that trust is a literal professional suicide (suspension, disbarment, reputational ruin, and often civil liability) for any lawyer... that's why "strict" doesn't mean anything "little" in this case.

    • irishcoffee 9 hours ago

      My guess would be that if the benefitting legal party didn't need to declare they also benefitted from this (because they legally can't be caught, etc.) they wouldn't.

      I know and am friends with a lot of lawyers. They're pretty ruthless when it comes to this kind of thing.

      Legally, I would think both parties get copies of everything. I don't know if that was the case here.

    • piker 5 hours ago

      > Edit: after reading up on this it looks like attorneys have strict ethical standards to not use the information (for what little that may be worth), but the Associated Press was a third party who unredacted public court documents in a separate Facebook case.

      Curious. I am not a litigator but this is surprising if you found support for it. My gut was that the general obligation to be a zealous advocate for your client would require a litigant to use inadvertently disclosed information unless it was somehow barred by the court. Confidentiality obligations would remain owed to the client, and there might be some tension there but it would be resolvable.

      • zerocrates 4 hours ago

        My recollection is that it varies quite a bit between jurisdictions. The ABA's model rules require you to notify the other party when they accidentally send you something but leave unspecified what else, if anything, you might have to do.

        • pdpi 3 hours ago

          A famous case where this came into play was one of the Infowars defamation suits. Alex Jones’s lawyer accidentally sent the families’ lawyer the full contents of a phone backup. They notified Jones’s lawyer, and gave him some time to reply. After that time elapsed, the whole dump was considered fair game.

          This is the moment when that mistake was revealed in court: https://youtu.be/pgxZSBfGXUM and this is the hearing for the emergency motion to suppress that data: https://youtu.be/dKbAmNwbiMk

  • agilob 4 hours ago

    Follow the letter of the law, but not the spirit.

    • Scarblac 3 hours ago

      It already seems that they blacked out more than the law allowed, so following neither.

      Not that it matters much what the law says if the goal is to protect the man who hands out pardons...

  • JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago

    "There are major differences between the Trump 1.0 and 2.0 administrations. In the Trump 1.0 administration, many of the most important officials were very competent men. One example would be then-Attorney General William Barr. Barr is contemptible, yes, but smart AF. When Barr’s DOJ released a redacted version of the Mueller Report, they printed the whole thing, made their redactions with actual ink, and then re-scanned every page to generate a new PDF with absolutely no digital trace of the original PDF file. There are ways to properly redact a PDF digitally, but going analog is foolproof.

    The Trump 2.0 administration, in contrast, is staffed top to bottom with fools."

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/12/23/trump-doj-pdf-r...

    • groestl 4 hours ago

      > made their redactions with actual ink, and then re-scanned every page

      That's not very competent.

      > going analog is foolproof

      Absolutely not. There are many way's to f this up. Just the smallest variation in places that have been inked twice will reveal the clear text.

      • JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago

        > Just the smallest variation in places that have been inked twice will reveal the clear text

        Sure. But anyone can visually examine this. That means everyone with situational context can directly examine the quality of the redaction.

        Contrast that with a digital redation. You have to trust the tool works. Or you have to separate the folks with context from the folks with techical competence. (There is the third option of training everyone in the DoJ how to examine the inner workings of a PDF. That seems wasteful.)

      • bryanrasmussen 3 hours ago

        I suppose the best process would be this, and then after rescanning putting a black bar over each redacted text with image editing.

    • netsharc 8 hours ago

      It's like Russian spies being caught in the Netherlands with taxi receipts showing they took a taxi from their Moscow HQ to the airport: corrupt organizations attract/can only hire incompetent people...

      https://www.vice.com/en/article/russian-spies-chemical-weapo...

      Anyone remember how the Trump I regime had staff who couldn't figure out the lighting in the White House, or mistitled Australia's Prime Minister as President?

      • enaaem 6 hours ago

        Reminds of the time Russian security services showed copies of the Sims as evidence of an Ukranian Nazi plot.

      • JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago

        > with taxi receipts

        Please tell me they were saving them for expensing.

      • SanjayMehta 7 hours ago

        Or the passports discovered intact after a particularly heinous terrorist attack.

        • tor825gl 16 minutes ago

          This wasn't a fuck-up though was it?

          Knowing they would die in the attack, the terrorists just didn't care if their identities were known.

    • stevage 7 hours ago

      I would just do the digital version of that: add 100% black bars then screenshot page by page and probably increase the contrast too.

    • tdeck 8 hours ago

      The bigger difference from my perspective is that they have competent people doing the strategy this time. The last Trump administration failed to use the obvious levers available to accomplish fascism, while this one has been wildly successful on that end. In a few years they will have realigned the whole power dynamic in the country, and unfortunately more and more competent people will choose to work for them in order to receive the benefits of doing so.

      • Tostino 7 hours ago

        His last administration was filled with traditional Republicans.

        I may have disagreed with them on virtually every policy point, but they seemed to disagree with the most harmful Trump policies as well.

        We would have never agreed on the right policy, but we definitely agreed that his policy was not the right one.

      • JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago

        > they have competent people doing the strategy this time

        They had a great playbook in Project 2025. I'm not convinced Trump ever had the smartest people executing it.

        • tdeck 7 hours ago

          You don't need to be the smartest person when you're pointing a big gun at someone.

    • ekianjo 6 hours ago

      > William Barr. Barr is contemptible, yes, but smart AF

      You mean the guy who covered up for Epstein's 'suicide' and expected us morons to believe it?

      • JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago

        > You mean the guy who covered up for Epstein's 'suicide' and expected us morons to believe it?

        Let's assume that's true. How does it clash with him being "contemptible...but smart AF"?

        • h33t-l4x0r an hour ago

          Yeah I mean, orchestrating an assassination in a federal prison of a guy the whole world is watching, and never even so much as a whiff of a leak? Because how do you contain that without whacking everyone involved (which we would know about)? You don't. Not without teleportation, time-travel, or at the very least post-hypnotic suggestion.

          Oh he's smart AF, all right.

    • rayiner 4 hours ago

      It’s easy to appear competent when you’re sitting on your butt doing nothing. Had exactly did Barr and Co. accomplish in terms of moving forward the agenda people voted for? These guys were so eager to win accolades from liberals they couldn’t even pick the lowest hanging fruit. Totally pathetic effort after the stellar performance by the legal eagles in the Obama administration. Trump 2.0 is pursing a very aggressive legal strategy. It has a bunch of very smart people racking up wins in areas such as funding cuts, education, civil rights, deployment of national guard, etc. It also has people that are… struggling. But, unlike with Trump 1.0, they’re actually trying to move the ball forward for their team.

      • exasperaited an hour ago

        > Had exactly did Barr and Co. accomplish in terms of moving forward the agenda people voted for? These guys were so eager to win accolades from liberals they couldn’t even pick the lowest hanging fruit.

        Are you talking about the same Bill Barr? "Eager to win accolades from liberals" is a hilariously Trump-after-he-fired-someone thing to say.

        Have you read his Wikipedia page? Do you know who he actually is?

    • eviks 7 hours ago

      > but smart AF. When Barr’s DOJ released a redacted version of the Mueller Report, they printed the whole thing, made their redactions with actual ink, and then re-scanned every page to generate a new PDF with absolutely no digital trace of the original PDF file.

      This is a dumb way of doing that, exactly what "stupid" people do when their are somewhat aware of the limits of their competence or only as smart as the tech they grew up with. Also, this type of redaction eliminates the possibility to change text length, which is a very common leak when especially for various names/official positions. And it doesn't eliminate the risk of non-redaction since you can't simply search&replace with machine precision, but have to do the manual conversion step to printed position

      • plantain 7 hours ago

        >exactly what "stupid" people do when their are somewhat aware of the limits of their competence

        Being aware of one's limitations is the strongest hallmark of intelligence I've come across...

      • lelanthran 3 hours ago

        > This is a dumb way of doing that, exactly what "stupid" people do when their are somewhat aware of the limits of their competence or only as smart as the tech they grew up with.

        No, this is an example of someone understanding the limits of the people they delegate to, and putting in a process so that delegation to even a very dumb person still has successful outcomes.

        "Smart" people like to believe that knowing enough minutiae is enough to result in a successful outcome.

        Actual smart people know that the process is more important than the minutiae, and proceed accordingly.

        • eviks 3 hours ago

          > someone understanding the limits of the people they delegate to, and putting in a process so that delegation to even a very dumb person still has successful

          Oh, man, is he the only smart person in the whole department of >100k employees and an >x contractors??? What other fantasy do you need to believe in to excuse the flaws? Also, if he's so smart why didn't he, you know, hire someone smart for the job?

          > even a very dumb person still has successful

          Except it's easier to make mistakes following his process for both smart and dumb people, not be successful!

          > Actual smart people know that the process is more important

          So he's not actually smart according to your own definition because the process he has set up was bad, so he apparently did not know it was important to set it up better?

          > important than the minutiae

          Demanding only paper redactions is that minutiae.

      • fc417fc802 7 hours ago

        Not at all. It's a procedure that's very difficult to unintentionally screw up. Sometimes that's what you want.

        > you can't simply search&replace with machine precision

        Sure you can. Search and somehow mark the text (underline or similar) to make keywords hard to miss. Then proceed with the manual print, expunge, scan process.

      • JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago

        > this type of redaction eliminates the possibility to change text length

        This is the only weakness of Barr's method.

        > it doesn't eliminate the risk of non-redaction since you can't simply search&replace with machine precision

        Anyong relying on automated tools to redact is doing so performatively. At the end of the day, you need people who understand the context to sit down and read through the documents and strike out anything that reveals–directly or indirectly, spelled correctly or incorrectly–too much.

      • WalterBright 4 hours ago

        > this type of redaction eliminates the possibility to change text length, which is a very common leak when especially for various names/official positions

        Increasing the size of the redaction box to include enough of the surrounding text to make that very difficult.

      • [removed] 5 hours ago
        [deleted]
  • ajross 9 hours ago

    Given the context and the baldly political direction behind the redactions, it's not at all unlikely that this is the result of deliberate sabotage or malicious compliance. Bondi isn't blacking these things out herself, she's ordering people to do it who aren't true believers. Purges take time (and often blood). She's stuck with the staff trained under previous administrations.

    • lamontcg 8 hours ago

      Or it is just the result of firing people who were competent and giving insufficient training to people who had never done this before.

  • [removed] 9 hours ago
    [deleted]
  • ricksunny 8 hours ago

    The covid origins Slack messages discovery material (Anderson & Holmes) were famously poorly redacted pdfs, allowing their unredacting by Gilles Demaneuf, benefiting all of us.

  • beaned 9 hours ago

    [flagged]

    • exasperaited 9 hours ago

      You mean the layers that were, in fact, just side effects of scanning the (non-authoritative) short form certificate?

OneMorePerson 5 hours ago

It's funny seeing this play out because in my personal life anytime I'm sharing a sensitive document where someone needs to see part of it but I don't want them to see the rest that's not relevant, I'll first block out/redact the text I don't want them to see (covering it, using a redacting highlighter thing, etc.), and then I'll screenshot the page and make that image a PDF.

I always felt paranoid (without any real evidence, just a guess) that there would always be a chance that anything done in software could be reversed somehow.

  • GistNoesis 4 hours ago

    If it's not done properly, and you happen at any point in the chain to put black blocks on a compressed image (and PDF do compress internal images), you are leaking some bits of information in the shadow casted by the compression algorithm : (Self-plug : https://github.com/unrealwill/jpguncrop )

    • RobotToaster 26 minutes ago

      Somewhat related, I once sent a FOI request to a government agency that decided the most secure way to redact documents was to print them, use a permanent marker, and then scan them. Unfortunately they used dye based markers over laser print, so simply throwing the document into Photoshop and turning up the contrast made it readable.

      • cout 16 minutes ago

        I remember noticing that a teacher in high school had used white-out to hide the marks for the correct multiple choice answer on final exam practice questions before copying them. Then she literally cut-and-pasted questions from the practice questions for the final. I did mediocre on the essay, but got the highest score in the class on the multiple choice questions, because I could see little black dots where the white out was used.

    • GistNoesis 3 hours ago

      And that's just in the non-adversarial simple case.

      If you don't know the provenance of images you are putting black box on (for example because of a rogue employee intentionally wanting to leak them, or if the image sensor of your target had been compromised to leak some info by another team), your redaction can be rendered ineffective, as some images can be made uncroppable by construction .

      (Self-plug : https://github.com/unrealwill/uncroppable )

      And also be aware that compression is hiding everywhere : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_sensing

      • layla5alive 2 hours ago

        Right, using stenography to encode some parity bits into an image so that lost information can be reconstructed seems like an obvious approach - all sorts of approaches you could use, akin to FEC. Haven't looked at your site yet, will be interested to see what you've built :)

        Edit: I checked it out, nice, I like the lower res stenography approach, can work very nicely with good upscaling filters - gave it a star :)

        • 333c 2 hours ago

          steganography — stenography is courtroom transcription

    • RamRodification 3 hours ago

      I was thinking I understand what's going on but then I came to the image showing the diff and I don't understand at all how that diff can unredact anything.

      • OtherShrezzing 3 hours ago

        It's not that you can unredact them from scratch (you could never get the blue circle back from this software). It's that you can tell which of the redacted images is which of the origin images. Investigative teams often find themselves in a situation where they have all four images, but need to work out which redacted files are which of the origins. Take for example, where headed paper is otherwise entirely redacted.

        So with this technique, you can definitively say "Redacted-file-A is definitely a redacted version of Origin-file-A". Super useful for identifying forgeries in a stack of otherwise legitimate files.

        Also good for for saying "the date on origin-file-B is 1993, and the file you've presented as evidence is provable as origin-file-b, so you definitely know of [whatever event] in 1993".

        • RamRodification 2 hours ago

          Ok thanks. That sounds reasonable.

          >... and therefore you can unredact them

          from that readme is just not true then I guess?

  • jwrallie 26 minutes ago

    I learned that a long time ago when I was a student and wanted to submit a pdf generated by a trial version of some software as an assignment and was trying to be clever and cover the watermark that said unregistered with a white box.

    When opening the file in my slow computer, I could see all the rendering of the watermark happening in slow motion until the white box would pop up on top of the text.

    • tor825gl 18 minutes ago

      It's actually quite easy to open the pdf and see that there are several different elements per page to the document, eg the main text, an image, the footer, the title.

      Randomly removing these by trial and error will usually quite easily allow you to find the watermark and nix it, with the advantage that even a sophisticated recipient will not be able to find out from the pdf file what the watermark was.

  • amelius an hour ago

    Maybe the person tasked with the redacting didn't agree so they chose the worst possible way to do it.

    • noduerme an hour ago

      Normally, I'd never attribute to intention what can be blamed on incompetence. Especially if the government is doing it. But sure, if I were the intern tasked with this job...

  • userbinator 4 hours ago

    I'll just send an image and not bother with a PDF.

    (Note there's also other metadata in a PDF, which you may not want your recipient to know either.)

    • PeterStuer 3 hours ago

      There's also metadata in the image files. What specifically would be sensitive in the pdf with screenshots metadata that is also not present in the sceenshot image metadata?

      • userbinator 30 minutes ago

        PDF has something called an "info dictionary", which most mainstream PDF-writing software will fill out with various bits of info that you might not want known.

        Image files usually have substantially less metadata by default, unless it's one taken by a camera.

  • agentifysh 4 hours ago

    it's absolutely bewildering how ridiculous everything has been so far in terms of competence and this really takes the cherry on the top near Christmas too.

    how much lower can they go ?!

    • yetihehe 3 hours ago

      USA is still very high, so they can go much much lower, but I think they might go to some still lower places, finding them where we didn't even know such places could exist. Some ideas:

      - Leave NATO

      - Start openly supporting Russia and North Korea

      - Arrest whole International Criminal Court

      - Preventively invade China

      • baby 3 hours ago

        I'm convinced slavery will be reintroduced before 2028

      • rurban 3 hours ago

        Reintroduce witch burning.

        Reintroduce death penalties on public squares.

        Taking Greenland and Venezuela is given, as they took most of Latin America already. Just the new Mexican president looks like the next thorn in their eyes. Too competent, too social, too anti-corruption.

      • potato3732842 14 minutes ago

        Support for NATO within the US is Isreal-lite for different demographics. Pouring resources into it isn't without downsides.

      • RonanSoleste 2 hours ago

        They effectively already left NATO and openly support Russia already. ICC members are already under fire and some had their microsoft account banned by Trump. Trump will invade Greenland and Canada first. China is less of an priority.

    • darubedarob 2 hours ago

      This low https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse_in_Pakistan aka a society where child abuse is simply accepted and mainstream, with the child abuse of child labour and dhijhadism being just additional nightmare fuel on top.

      • bamboozled 7 minutes ago

        If we survive long enough I do believe historians will look back on this period and state as a matter of fact, rape and child abuse were completely acceptable, because it seems it’s totally fine with our elected leaders. If these leaders were democratically elected there is only one conclusion to draw from it…

    • imiric 3 hours ago

      I'm not too concerned about the US. They've made their bed.

      I'm more concerned with them dragging everyone else down, and someone much worse taking their place.

    • coldstartops 3 hours ago

      Maybe it was always part of the plan. Plausible Deniability.

      • pjc50 3 hours ago

        Good Soldier Svejk working at the FBI decided to follow an illegal order as badly as possible.

    • lostlogin 4 hours ago

      The really interesting bit is whether they can go another term.

      • vanviegen 2 hours ago

        They seem to be ahead of schedule abolishing a working democracy before the midterms.

  • tetha 3 hours ago

    Personally, I only trust an image manipulation tool to put down solid colored blocks, or something that does not involve the source pixels when deciding on the redacted pixel. Formats like PDF are just so complicated to trust.

  • ge96 4 hours ago

    The one that was crazy to me is undoing a blur effect (based on its algo), so yeah I also will layer and screenshot something

  • reed1234 4 hours ago

    And even being this careful, if the opacity is slightly off it could be undone

  • crossroadsguy 5 hours ago

    This is what I do while sharing such images. I crop out those parts first and then take another screenshot. I do not even risk painting over and then take another screenshot. I have been doing this forever.

  • 9dev 3 hours ago

    In practical terms, a more convenient way to achieve this is just printing the document to a PDF, which rasterises the visible layer into what the printer would see. Most pdf tools support this.

    • vanviegen 2 hours ago

      That seems like a dangerous approach. Though printer drivers do often use rasterization, especially when targeting cheap printers, many printers can render vector graphics and text as well. Print-to-PDF will often use the later approach, unless of course the source program always rasterizes it's output when sending it out to the printer driver, or the used Print-to-PDF driver is particularly stupid.

  • TacticalCoder 2 hours ago

    I then convert the image to grayscale only. Then I apply a filter so that only 16 colors are used. And I then adjust brightness/contrast so that "white is really white". It's all scripted: "screenshot to PDF". One of my oldest shell script.

    16 shades of grey (not 50) is plenty enough for text to still be smooth.

    I do it for several reasons, one of them being I often take manual notes on official documents (which infuriates my wife btw) but then sometimes I need to then scan the documents and send them (local IRS / notary / bank / whatever). So I'll just scan then I'll fill rectangle with white where I took handnotes. Another reason is when there's paper printed on two sides, at scan times sometimes if the paper is thin / ink is thick, the other side shall show.

    I wonder how that'd work vs adversarial inputs: never really thought about it.

vincengomes 7 hours ago

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" - Napoleon Bonaparte

Let all the files get released first.

Then show your hacks.

  • rtkwe 7 hours ago

    They're not 'hacks' it's the people doing the redaction making beginner mistakes of not properly removing the selectable text under the redactions. They're either drawing black rectangles over the text or highlighting it black neither of which prevents the underlying text from being selected.

    Keeping that secret would require sponaneous silence from everyone looking at these docs which is just not possible.

  • refurb 6 hours ago

    Also don’t assume the mistake wasn’t intentional.

    • culi 4 hours ago

      This was my initial reaction to this news. I mean think about it

      The Trump team knows that nobody is gonna buy whatever they put out as being the full story. Isn't this just the perfect way to make people feel like they got something they weren't supposed to see? They can increase trust in the output without having to increase trust in the source of it

      And as far as I've heard there hasn't been anything "unredacted" that's been of any consequence. It all just feels a little too perfect.

      • aucisson_masque 2 hours ago

        It's the same government that invited a journalist to a signal discussion about ongoing military strike in Yemen.

        • h33t-l4x0r an hour ago

          Maybe that was just a ploy to get us to underestimate them.

      • gmueckl 3 hours ago

        This is probably one of those events where everyone on the inside has their own story that won't fit into a neat overarching narrative of how the files are handled because they only gets to feel part of the elefant each.

      • kristofferR 3 hours ago

        No, it's the opposite, it's fairly damaging. Previously they could claim, dubiously but plausible, that all redactions were about protecting victims (the only redactions allowed under the act). A lot of the "undone redactions" are solely about protecting the abusers, illegal under the law.

        Whether breaking a law actually matters anymore is another question though, as crime is legal now.

      • refurb 3 hours ago

        That was my thought. Just happen to leak some info for people you are interested in hurting but claim it was an accident.

        And in terms of no big news in “unredacted”, it’s likely names that don’t mean anything to the average voter but damaging material for K Street.

    • chistev 6 hours ago

      "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

      • 9dev 3 hours ago

        Exactly my thoughts as well.

  • esseph 7 hours ago

    Too late. The data has been touched far too many times. The chain of custody and any accountability will never happen.

nickpinkston 10 hours ago

I wonder if any of this is a conscious act of resistance vs. just incompetence.

And yes, I've heard of Hanlon's Razor haha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

  • wolpoli 10 hours ago

    Black square vs redaction tool difference is well known if someone's job involves redacting PDF or just working with PDF. It's most likely that additional staffs were pulled in and weren't given enough training.

    • Dusseldorf 10 hours ago

      Colleagues whose full time job is doing this sort of thing for various bits of the government have told me this is exactly the case here. People from all over the government have been deputized to redact these documents with little or no prior training.

      • culi 4 hours ago

        If there's that many people who have access to these files, I'm shocked there hasn't been leaks until this point.

      • dboreham 9 hours ago

        CUaaS. Cover Up as a Service.

        • femto 8 hours ago

          With a sister website BAEaas (Backup and Extort as a service).

      • mindslight 10 hours ago

        I wonder if this activity is being used as a kind of loyalty test. Keep track of who is assigned to redact what, and then if certain files leak or are insufficiently redacted, they indicate who isn't all in on Dear Leader.

        It's not like a few more stories of Trump raping $whomever are going to move the needle at all, especially with how the media is on board with burying negative coverage of the regime.

        Also if you're wondering how this activity isn't some kind of abuse of government resources, keep in mind that thanks to the Supreme Council's embrace of the Unitary Executive Theory (ie Sparkling Autocracy), covering up evidence about Donald Trump raping under-aged sex trafficking victims is now an official priority of the United States Government.

    • asmor 34 minutes ago

      It seems insane that nobody at the other end runs something as simple as MAT or imagick (twice) over it to take the text layers out before uploading though. I hope this is at least partially intentional.

    • baby 3 hours ago

      My understanding is that many people were fired and replaced by loyalists at the FBI. I think there are a lot of incompetent people working there right now.

    • exasperaited 9 hours ago

      Yeah — don't attribute to resistance what can adequately be explained by idiocy.

    • cynicalsecurity 10 hours ago

      Let people believe it's deliberate sabotage. Unfortunately, in real life, minions of a dictator serve the dictator; they don't risk their live or safety for a noble cause. Any screw-ups are a result of gross incompetence that is typical for every dictatorship.

      • brunoqc 9 hours ago

        Maybe because facism favor loyalty over competence.

        • zerocrates 4 hours ago

          Arendt:

          Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.

      • andsoitis 9 hours ago

        Do you truly believe the US is currently a dictatorship?

    • [removed] 9 hours ago
      [deleted]
  • neilv 10 hours ago

    A third possibility is diversion, while the most damaging evidence would be suppressed a different way.

  • userbinator 6 hours ago

    Another option: also change some of the text underneath.

  • JohnTHaller 7 hours ago

    Given the sheer number of people they had to pull in and work overtime to redact Trump's name as well as those of prominent Republicans and donors as per numerous sources within the FBI and the administration itself, incompetence is likely for a chunk of it.

    • sigwinch 5 hours ago

      It’s funny that this effort, the largest exertion of FBI agents second only to 9/11, seems to be unprepared to redact. Cynically, I’m prepared for it to be part of a generative set of PDFs derived from the prompt “create court documents consistent with these 16 PDFs which obscure the role of Donald Trump between 1993 and 1998.”

      • _annum 4 hours ago

        Generative subterfuge aside, the information being "uncovered" through copy-and-paste could have been modified and we would never know.

        I'm leaning towards negligence though.

  • russellbeattie 7 hours ago

    There's a third option: Ambivalence.

    Any major documents/files have been removed all together. Then the rest was farmed out to anyone they could find with basic instructions to redact anything embarrassing.

    Since there's absolutely zero chance anyone in the administration will ever be held accountable for what's left, they're not overly concerned.

    The thing that I've been waiting to see for years is the actual video recordings. There were supposedly cameras everywhere, for years. I'm not even talking about the disgusting stuff, I'm talking security for entrances, hallways, etc.

    The FBI definitely has them, where are they?

    What about Maxwell's media files? There was nothing found there? Did they subpoena security companies and cloud providers?

    The documents are all deniable. Yes video evidence can now be easily faked, but real video will have details that are hard to invent. Regardless, videos are worth millions of words.

  • apical_dendrite 10 hours ago

    Reporting is that they had a basically impossible deadline and they took lawyers off of counterintelligence work to do this. So a conscious act of resistance is possible, but it's a situation where mistakes are likely - people working very quickly trying to meet a deadline and doing work they aren't that familiar with and don't really want to be doing.

    • jmward01 7 hours ago

      It seems like a common tactic by this administration is to just not do what they are required to do until they have been told 50 times and criminal charges are being filed. I suspect the actual truth here is 'don't do this' turned into 'you have 1 day to do this and keep my name out of the release' which led to lots of issues. They probably spent more time deciding the order of pages to release, and how to avoid releasing the things damaging to the administration, than actually doing the work needed to release it. Now they will say 'look, see! You didn't give us enough time and our incompetence is the proof'

    • cosmicgadget 3 hours ago

      Considering the Comey, James, and Adams debacles, seems quite likely they're purged most people with a shred of competence.

  • billy99k 7 hours ago

    The 'resistance' was not releasing them during the last administration.

  • jmyeet 9 hours ago

    It's a good question.

    For context, lawyers deal with this all the time. In discovery, there is an extensive document ("doc") review process to determine if documents are responsive or non-responsive. For example, let's say I subpoenaed all communication between Bob and Alice between 1 Jan 2019 and 1 Jan 2020 in relation to the purchase of ABC Inc as part of litigation. Every email would be reviewed and if it's relevant to the subpoena, it's marked as responsive, given an identifier and handed over to the other side. Non-responsive communication might not be eg attorney-client communications.

    It can go further and parts of documents can be viewed as non-responsive and otherwise be blacked out eg the minutes of a meeting that discussed 4 topics and only 1 of them was about the company purchase. That may be commercially sensitive and beyond the scope of the subpoena.

    Every such redaction and exclusion has to be logged and a reason given for it being non-responsive where a judge can review that and decide if the reason is good or not, should it ever be an issue. Can lawyers find something damaging and not want to hand it over and just mark it non-responsive? Technically, yes. Kind of. It's a good way to get disbarred or even jailed.

    My point with this is that lawyers, which the Department of Justice is full of, are no strangers to this process so should be able to do it adequately. If they reveal something damaging to their client this way, they themselves can get sued for whatever the damages are. So it's something they're careful about, for good reason.

    So in my opinion, it's unlikely that this is an act of resistance. Lawyers won't generally commit overt illegal acts, particularly when the only incentive is keeping their job and the downside is losing their career. It could happen.

    What I suspect is happening is all the good lawyers simply aren't engaging in this redaction process because they know better so the DoJ had the wheel out some bad and/or unethical ones who would.

    What they're doing is in blatant violation to the law passed last month and good lawyers know it.

    There's a lot of this going on at the DoJ currently. Take the recent political prosecutions of James Comey, Letitia James, etc. No good prosecutor is putting their name to those indictments so the administration was forced to bring in incompetent stooges who would. This included former Trump personal attorneys who got improerly appointed as US Attorneys. This got the Comey indictment thrown out.

    The law that Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey co-sponsored was sweeping and clear about what needs to be released. The DoJ is trying to protect both members of the administration and powerful people, some of whom are likely big donors and/or foreign government officials or even heads of state.

    That's also why this process is so slow I imagine. There are only so many ethically compromised lackeys they can find.

    • sigwinch 5 hours ago

      Fine, but the teeth of this act belong to some future justice department. I predict Trump will issue blanket pardons for everyone involved, up to Bondi; and that none of them will respect a congressional subpoena.

      • dragonwriter 4 hours ago

        There's already bipartisan talk of inherent contempt being applied in the House, so the teeth might not wait for a future justice department.

      • jmyeet 4 hours ago

        There's no putting this genie back in the bottle.

        MAGA is a cult and every cult has a mission. MAGA's mission is to uncover the elite pedophile ring. A cult can only be sustained so long as the mission is incomplete. Epstein is core foundational mythology. It's going to be really difficult if not impossible to redirect this.

        You'll notice that Mike Johnson once again has put Congress in recess to avoid it taking action, this time a day before the 30 day deadline. The last time was for 7 weeks to try and get Republicans to remove their names from the discharge petition to avoid all this. Republicans know what a core problem this is.

        So it's politically damaging with his base for Trump to pardon attorneys involved in obstructing this. But even if he weathers that, it doesn't solve his problem.

        For one, any attorneys despite any pardon are subject to disciplinary proceedings (including disbarment) as well as possible state charges.

        For another, this stuff is simply going to get out. Where previously a DoJ attorney would be committing career suicide if they got caught leaking things like grand jury testimony and confidential non-prosecution agreements, now they're obligated to. So they're not leakers anymore, they're whistleblowers who are following the law.

        Congress will eventually have to come back into session and Pam Bondi may actually face a real risk of impeachment. If that happens, who is going to want this job when the key requirement is being such a loyalist that you have to break the law?

        Congress will also seek compliaance from DoJ and hold investigations as well as drip feed their own documents from,say, the House Oversight Committee.

        And in the wings we still have Ghislaine Maxwell who is clearly operating under an implicit understanding that she will get a pardon or, more likely, a commutation. Her move to a lower security prison that isn't eligible for her type of offenses was (IMHO) clearly a move to buy her continued silence until it became politically possible to free her. I don't think that's ever going to be possible other than maybe a lame duck pardon when leaving office.

        This story is only getting bigger.

    • dragonwriter 4 hours ago

      > My point with this is that lawyers, which the Department of Justice is full of, are no strangers to this process so should be able to do it adequately. If they reveal something damaging to their client this way, they themselves can get sued for whatever the damages are. So it's something they're careful about, for good reason.

      > So in my opinion, it's unlikely that this is an act of resistance. Lawyers won't generally commit overt illegal acts,

      Political redaction in this release under the Epstein Transparency Act is an overt, illegal act.

      Does that reconfigure your estimation of whether DoJ attorneys that aren't the Trump inner-circle loyalists installed in leadership roles might engage in resistance against (or at least fail to point out methodological flaws in the inplmentation of) it?

digitaltrees 8 hours ago

Its not a hack to copy and paste text that is part of the document data. The incompetence of the people responsible to comply with the law doesnt mean its reasonable to label something a hack.

Please change the title.

  • weird-eye-issue 8 hours ago

    If I open your laptop and guess your password then that counts as hacking you in both legal and security terms

    You don't need to do some sophisticated thing for it to be considered hacking

    • digitaltrees an hour ago

      You guessing my password is not the same as a know and expected behavior of a program. Adobe has a specific feature to redact. PDF is a format known to have layers. Lawyers are trained on day one not to make this mistake. (I am a recovering lawyer). This is either incompetence or deliberate disclosure.

    • koolala 7 hours ago

      If you were blind would a screen reader read the documents? Thats not a hack.

      • an0malous 7 hours ago

        If your intent was to circumvent the redactions it would be

        • digitaltrees an hour ago

          Placing a black box on the text isn’t a redaction any more than placing a sticky note would be. No reasonable person can expect a sticky note to permanently prevent readers from seeing text and no reasonable person can expect a black overlay box in pdf to prevent reading text because this is literally a fundamental feature of pdfs as a layer format file

    • TOMDM 7 hours ago

      If someone sends me a document with text in it that they meant to remove but didn't and then I read that text, I haven't hacked anything they're just incompetent.

      Hacking is unauthorised use of a system. Reading a document that was not adequately redacted can hardly be considered hacking.

      • jeffparsons 7 hours ago

        Or in case some folks find the addition of a computer confusing here, if someone sends you a physical letter and they've used correction tape or a black marker to obscure some parts of the letter, and you scratch away the correction tape or hold the letter up to a light source to read what's underneath, have you committed a crime?

        I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what the law has to say about this. But I do have at least a small handful of brain cells to rub together, so I know what the law _should_ say about this.

      • left-struck 2 hours ago

        Hacking is not just authorised use of a system. Hacking and hacking techniques can apply to systems you fully own or systems which you are authorised to hack. Hacking is using something in a way that the designer didn’t anticipate or intend on.

        • digitaltrees an hour ago

          Adobe designed pdf to behave this way. Placing layers over text doesn’t remove the text from the file. They have a specific redaction feature for that purpose.

    • DrJokepu 6 hours ago

      I’m not an attorney or anything, but the relevant federal statute is explicitly about unauthorized access of computer systems (18 USC 1030).

      Opening someone else’s laptop and guessing the password would absolutely fall under that definition, but I think it’s very much questionable if poking around a document that you have legitimately obtained would do so.

    • reed1234 4 hours ago

      But copying and pasting text of publicly released documents is not illegal. Accessing someone’s computer is illegal. While maybe it could fall under the umbrella of hacking in some general way, articles, and especially titles, should be more precise.

      • immibis 3 hours ago

        That actually is illegal in some circumstances, for example if the document is protected by copyright.

    • dullcrisp 7 hours ago

      I guess but if you write something down real small and I squint at it is that still hacking?

  • left-struck 2 hours ago

    Hacking is any use of a technology in a way that it wasn’t intended. The redaction is so stupid as to almost appear intentional, so maybe you’re right, this isn’t hacking because maybe the information was intended to be discovered.

  • divbzero 7 hours ago

    Yes, this is the digital equivalent of sticking a blank Post-it over text and calling it “redacted”. Mind-boggling that the same mistake has been made over and over again.

  • themafia an hour ago

    It's being "undone with the lamest hack known to mankind."

    Still technically a hack.

    • digitaltrees an hour ago

      It’s not a hack. It’s known, expected behavior of the program. Adobe has a specific feature to redact. Color filled boxes is not it.

  • eviks 7 hours ago

    Also had this first thought, but then a hack could just be a way around a limit/lack of authorization, doesn't have to be unknown/sophisticated, so copy of black boxes fits

    • fc417fc802 6 hours ago

      > limit/lack of authorization

      By serving up the PDF file I am being authorized to receive, view, process, etc etc the entire contents. Not just some limited subset. If I wasn't authorized to receive some portion of the file then that needed to be withheld to begin with.

      That's entirely different from gaining unauthorized entry to a system and copying out files that were never publicly available to begin with.

      To put it simply, I am not responsible for the other party's incompetence.

      • pipo234 4 hours ago

        For starts, wouldn't it be kind of ironic to set up limits and authorization in a context that is about making some content available to the public?

        I'd say any technical or legal restrictions or possible means to enforce DRM ought to be disabled or absent from the media format used when disseminating content that must be disclosed.

        Censorship (of necessary) should purge the data entirely,ie: replace by ###

      • eviks 6 hours ago

        That's not true, you can mistakenly receive data you're not authorized to have (might even be criminal to have!)

        > That's entirely different from gaining unauthorized entry to a system and copying out files that were never publicly available to begin with.

        That's not the sum total of hacks, if you have publicly accessible password-protected PDF and guess the password as 1234, that's a hack. Copy& paste of black boxes is similarly a hack around content protection

        > To put it simply, I am not responsible for the other party's incompetence.

        To put it even simpler, this conversation is not about you and your responsibility, but about the different meanings of the word "hack "

  • reed1234 4 hours ago

    And the title should briefly describe the “hack” as well

  • wahnfrieden 7 hours ago

    Not the only thing hack means now, or the most common usage anymore. See "life hack" - it means unexpected technique.

    • digitaltrees 43 minutes ago

      But this isn’t an unexpected technique it’s literally the core design of the pdf format. It’s a layered format that preserves the layers on any machine. Adobe has a redaction feature to overcome the default behavior that each layer can be accessed even if there is a top layer in front.

    • valleyer 6 hours ago

      It's also the meaning used in the title of this very Web site.

maCDzP 31 minutes ago

Maybe someone knows law can answer this. Is it a crime to ”unredact” files in the US? You probably know that the information is classified since you are putting in the work. Where I live I believe it’s a crime if you share information that is classified even if it’s leaked. So I would not publicly brag about this online.

scirob 3 hours ago

Man if you can do this should keep it secret until they release more bad redactions...

tim333 12 hours ago

It's quite funny really. Apparently you just cut and paste the text into Word. They just had the pdf put black rectangles on top.

  • pilaf 9 hours ago

    Why into Word specifically?

    • iAMkenough 9 hours ago

      The average office worker has it on their computer, illustrating how commonplace unredacting could be. Any text tool will work, even some designed to detect bad redactions in PDFs via drag and drop (now specifically trained on these known bad redactions). https://github.com/freelawproject/x-ray

  • echelon 9 hours ago

    Why reveal the trick before all the papers have been released?

    • alex77456 5 hours ago

      Someone wanted to make sure to be the first?

    • Sceptre6 6 hours ago

      I don't think there is a grand conspiracy here. Any schmoe can download these files, select with their mouse, and copy paste into a document.

jtrn an hour ago

Shout out to Stirling PDF that can be self hosted and has a relatively robust and easy to use redaction tool. All for free.... For now....

juujian 9 hours ago

Apart from the technological and procedural question, I would love to learn why the DOJ found it important to protect Indyke. He was Epstein's lawyer, and now we learn that he was personally involved. He is not a Washington person. We expected there to be politically motivated protection of certain people, but is the DOJ just going to blanket protect anybody in the docs?

  • avidiax 9 hours ago

    Indyke works for other powerful people, runs in MAGA circles.

    Two things come to mind:

    * Some things Indyke did fall outside the scope of lawyer-client privilege. It would be bad for certain people to get him on a stand and force him to spill the beans. He was never interviewed re: Epstein [1]

    * He's a very talented lawyer, insofar as a competent lawyer with, at least, extreme discretion, is talented.

    [1] https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/letter_to_doj-f...

    • notahacker 29 minutes ago

      > It would be bad for certain people to get him on a stand and force him to spill the beans.

      Yep. I think this sort of thing is actually their biggest concern with releasing the docs. They can redact or lose documents that say anything directly incriminating about Trump and his associates and dismiss everything Epstein and testimonies from the 2020s say about him as confabulation, but there are other people who might want to take the administration down with them if they get caught or even just get fed up of being doorstepped by the media, and some of them might have receipts.

  • dragonwriter 5 hours ago

    He was Epstein’s lawyer, he almost certainly has the dirt on anyone the DoJ wants to protect, and may be the kind of person that would be inclined to burn whoever DoJ was protecting if he wasn't getting treatment at least as favorable.

  • JohnTHaller 7 hours ago

    All you have to do is work for a MAGA person or MAGA billionaire donor for them to protect you.

  • ttctciyf 3 hours ago

    From TFA:

    > [Indyke] was hired by the Parlatore Law Group in 2022, before the justice department settled the Epstein case. That firm represents the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, and previously represented Donald Trump in his defense against charges stemming from the discovery of classified government documents stored at Trump’s Florida estate.

    So I don't know about "not a Washington person", but clearly connections exist to the current administration.

  • greatgib 5 hours ago

    He was probably considered as a "victim" of having his crimes exposed...

  • sigwinch 5 hours ago

    He’s one of the executors of Epstein’s will. Better not piss him off.