Comment by orwin

Comment by orwin 2 months ago

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You just don't understand how food addiction works. Going from 34 BMI to 28 (I'm at 26 now) was the hardest thing I ever done, and I had money, great friends, a great family and a doctor that followed me twice a month.

Willpower is not a muscle, it's a well that fill doing what you enjoy, and clear when used. During my diet, my work ethic was at the bottom, and I couldn't force myself to go out meet new people.

Now that I have a healthier weight and stopped dieting hard (I'm still constantly hungry, but now it's my life), I'm a great coworker, I met a lot of people, made life-changing decisions and I have a lot of willpower left to do all the little things right. If I had a drug that helped me control my appetite at the time, i would have taken it.

titanomachy 2 months ago

> Willpower is not a muscle, it's a well that fill doing what you enjoy, and clear when used.

I won't negate your experience, since this is such a personal thing, and it's not like we have a rigorous scientific understanding of these things. But to me, willpower does feel like a trainable thing. Doing hard things seems to make me better at doing other hard things. Limiting my TV makes me less likely to compulsively eat later. Working out hard makes me less likely to lie in bed scrolling on my phone. Doing hard coursework makes me more focused at work.

The caveat is that these changes seem to happen pretty gradually, and the gains can be lost pretty easily, just like with muscle.

But being in a perpetual caloric deficit can be pretty rough and can definitely sap your energy. Glad you found your way to a healthier weight.

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  • stavros 2 months ago

    It's different per thing. Yes, working out gives me energy (even though I hate it and am bored out of my mind doing it), but going hungry or resisting food isn't the same kind of thing. If I had a bad day at work, I'll usually go "fuck it" and eat a pizza. If I've gone hungry all day because I'm eating what I should, I'll be cranky and not as much fun.

    I can definitely relate with the GP, even though your comment is relatable too. They're just different mechanisms, or they apply differently to different people.

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    • titanomachy 2 months ago

      Tangential to the discussion, but I'd encourage you to not give up trying to find a form of exercise that you don't find boring. It makes it much easier to get adequate exercise. Also, not having to spend time doing things you hate is nice.

      For example, personally I find lifting in the gym or running on the treadmill to be quite boring. I like biking and running outside, especially on trails. A lot of people enjoy group classes like crossfit or yoga, since the social reinforcement can make it psychologically a lot easier.

      Καλή τύχη.

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      • stavros 2 months ago

        Yeah, I (try to) cycle and play tennis, but due to some circumstances both are less frequent than I'd like. You need to lift weights too, though, to build and maintain muscle, so there's no getting out of that. I'll definitely need to do more cardio, though.

        Thanks!

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Funes- 2 months ago

How have fat people gotten thinner without those meds up until now, then? Was their addiction not as strong as yours, as you seem to imply? They just didn't "understand"? Look, I went from being an absolute fucking fatass to 8% body fat out of willpower alone when I was 17. It took a lot, namely destroying every bad habit I upheld for years regarding food and exercise, but I wanted to do it bad enough, so I did. It was a really extreme and sudden change of mindset, like a flip of a switch, actually, because I had enough of the bullying and lack of self confidence. One day I just got mad enough and changed my whole life.

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  • AlisdairO 2 months ago

    > How have fat people gotten thinner without those meds up until now, then?

    Mostly, they haven't. You and I are outliers.

    The population-level data tells us that overweight people are mostly unable to control their weight in the face of modern food. That being the case, it doesn't seem unreasonable to look for alternative solutions to the failed option of just telling people to eat less.

    edit: regarding strength of addiction - I mean, of course, isn't it profoundly obvious that different people will have different strengths of addiction? I can drink without the slightest inclination to excess, while others are broken alcoholics. My grandfather didn't have the slightest interest in food beyond the calories needed to survive, while I have to fight every day to eat well.

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    • titanomachy 2 months ago

      Exactly, regarding strengths of addiction. I don't feel morally superior about not being an alcoholic... it's pretty clear that my experience of alcohol is just wildly different from some of my friends. I enjoy alcohol fine, but I never feel like I'm exercising willpower when I choose to stop after 1-2 drinks.

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    • Funes- 2 months ago

      >edit: regarding strength of addiction...

      It's profoundly obvious you're missing the point, and conflating somehow having a low degree of addiction to something with not being addicted at all to it. Your example about alcohol clumsily compares people addicted to it with people who obviously don't have a problem with it. We were talking, instead, about people, like myself, who had some degree of addiction to food, and still found it in themselves to overcome that shit. So it's two groups of people: addicts who beat their addiction, and addicts that didn't; not addicts and non-addicts, like you explained. Your examples, as you can see, are totally irrelevant and miss the point completely.

      You also seem to imply that the degree to which you're addicted to something is the sole factor determining whether you will overcome your addiction or not, leaving your own will out of the equation. It should be logically self-evident that the fact that somebody beat their addiction says close to nothing about its "strength". One could have many physiological and psychological predispositions to food adiction and still beat it, while somebody with just a fraction of such problems could live a miserable life and never do away with it.

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      • AlisdairO 2 months ago

        Me> different people will have different strengths of addiction

        You> It's profoundly obvious you're missing the point, and conflating somehow having a low degree of addiction to something with not being addicted at all to it

        Suggest applying some of that willpower towards paying attention to what you're reading.

        > You also seem to imply that the degree to which you're addicted to something is the sole factor determining whether you will overcome your addiction or not

        I don't imply anything of the sort. Willpower is one variable, level of addiction is another. What I do imply is that without deeper observation of a person's life, and the other areas in which they might demonstrate willpower, you can't make strong conclusions about their lacking willpower based simply on their weight.

        Based on all I know about you (or you about me), we could each be people of tremendous willpower who overcame titanic odds to beat our food addiction, or we could simply be people who really quite like food who tried hard and overcame our mild predisposition.

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  • titanomachy 2 months ago

    the guy you're replying to also lost weight without the drugs... he says he would have taken them if they'd been available.

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timewizard 2 months ago

> You just don't understand how food addiction works.

Would you concede that some foods are more addictive than others? Doesn't this suggest other remedies like food regulations, at the very least, should be deployed in concert with seeming "miracle drugs" like GLP-1 agonists?

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  • orwin 2 months ago

    You have multiple type of food addiction. Most are hormones dependent. For some people, it's linked with insulin, and they will crave carbs, and probably modern diet doesn't help.

    Mine is linked to grahlin, I'm just always hungry. Painfully so too (at least it used to be). Do you have a friend who doesn't like to eat, sometimes forget to, and only do so to avoid hypoglycemia? I'm the opposite, I produce too much grahlin, too fast. The weird part is that the more you eat/fatten, the more your hormone production increase.

    My solution was regular, multiple days fast. Not calorie reduction (which was slightly painful, and very hard to follow), but full on fast, where the first two days are impossibly painful, but then your body start to ignore grahlin, and the last 3-5 are pretty much OK (hypoglycemia is an issue though, I did it with a doctor). And of course, more fibers in the diet (reducing milk-based products and meat helped).

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  • SpicyLemonZest 2 months ago

    Can't speak for the original commenter, but I would not concede that, because experiencing semaglutide has convinced me it's not true. The feeling I can now clearly recognize as something like "food addiction" disappeared uniformly for everything from Brussels sprouts to donuts.

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    • djur 2 months ago

      Yeah, my fridge has been virtually empty of ultra-processed foods for years. Mounjaro silenced the little voice saying "hey, why not go dig into the leftovers?", and when I do find myself grabbing a late-night snack (because my glucose monitor says I need one), I find it much easier to eat a little scoop of yogurt rather than wiping out most of the chicken I cooked for my lunches that week. I have to remind myself to finish things off before they go bad, now.

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