Comment by lukan

Comment by lukan 3 days ago

48 replies

View on Hacker News

"What if the next day his hope came back?"

What if he tried that, but every day just got worse than the last day?

And people don't get any younger.

My grandmother is 98. She hates her life since she could not go out anymore. But she is catholic and suicide would be a mortal sin. So she waits till gods take her. And suffers till then.

I would make a different choice for sure. If life is hell and no one depends on me, why should I continue the suffering? (At the cost of others, if I would need help?)

But my plan is of course to reach 120+ in good health. But if I decide I had enough, it will be my decision.

Noaidi 3 days ago

> What if he tried that, but every day just got worse than the last day?

Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they? How many people struggling today think that their life will get no better? Look at all those who made it through slavery, what hope did they have? Their hope came from their faith.

Suffering has a purpose, this is something your grandmother understands through her faith. Buddhists understand this as well. Maybe the problem is not our suffering, but our lack of faith in others and in in something bigger than ourselves.

Reply View 47 replies
  • lukan 3 days ago

    Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe)

    So sure, suffering and pain are part of life. And accepting that helps a lot to not get stuck in that condition by avoiding painful things, you cannot avoid.

    "Anyone can say that about their life right now, can't they?"

    So no, not anyone is saying that. Only those with a death wish.

    And I don't consider having a death wish as a mental condition. It can of course result of a illness, but it can also be a consciouss wish and then finally a decision.

    And if other people decide they may not do this, but have to remain in their state of living hell, then this is just torture to me.

    Reply View 9 replies
    • hrimfaxi 3 days ago

      > Well, but what if I ain't a christian nor a buddhist and don't think suffering as a normal living condition is necessary? (Can you proof it is? Also I don't think all christians/buddhists share that believe)

      At the very least, suffering (through childbirth) is a prerequisite to bringing life into this world.

      edit: strange that this is flagged. my parent asked for proof that suffering is inherent in life, and I don't know anyone who has said that the physical act of giving birth is anything but painful.

      Reply View 7 replies
      • lukan 3 days ago

        No, I asked for proof that a constant condition of suffering is inherent of life. Not that suffering is also part of life.

        (Vouched for it to be able to reply)

        Reply View 6 replies
    • Noaidi 3 days ago

      The first of the four noble truths set fourth by the Buddha:

      The truth of dukkha: Recognizing that suffering is a fundamental part of existence

      They even call Joy “hidden suffering”. Because whenever the thing is that gives us joy, if we become attached to it and it is taken away then we have suffering.

      And the Christians believe that the suffering of Christ was needed to forgive everyone of their sins.

      So they both view suffering as an important aspect of life. Something to be used for learning and understanding the human condition.

      But the buddhist and the Christians believe that you can escape what you would think of a state of constant suffering through religious practices. It’s the faith the American slaves had in Christ that got them through their state of living hell. And we’ve even seen a Buddhist light themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam. So I’m sorry, but I can’t look upon suffering as something that’s negative and I accept it as part of life and just as I can learn things from joy and I can learn things from suffering, and they are both the same size of the coin and equally as valuable.

      Reply View 0 replies
  • raw_anon_1111 3 days ago

    If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better.

    And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.

    Reply View 25 replies
    • Noaidi 3 days ago

      Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all.

      But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering.

      Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best it can possibly be. Whether I’m seeing this gorgeous sunny blue sky today or I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer. It’s a miracle to be born and to exist in this world, it’s extremely rare. And I want to live every last second of it. Maybe that’s what’s upsetting me about reading what he wrote. If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.

      Reply View 24 replies
      • lukan 3 days ago

        "And I want to live every last second of it."

        Glad for you. I really hope you never come into a situation that you wish for your life to end. But please take into account, that other people might experience life different at times.

        No one has a death wish, because things are a bit rough sometimes. But if life is constant hell and when there is no hope anymore. Then you wish for death to release you.

        (Also do you know what latestage cancer can mean? Constant pain that does not go away, ever.

        And Jesus might have been a real person, but that he choose crucification out of his own choice is very much part of the mythological story that other people told after his death)

        Reply View 1 reply
        • Noaidi 3 days ago

          So many of you, here are thinking that my father did not die of a rapid metastatic cancer. Or that I held my schizophrenic brother in my arms after he tried to overdose on pills. Or that I’m not suffering from a disorder that I’m not going to detail here.

          When you deal with suffering every day, you come to have a different relationship with it that is, if you don’t take the view of material list and instead follow the past of the several spiritual leaders who dealt with suffering and understood it in a way that is much deeper than “suffering is bad”.

          Christ test there is much more complicated than he wanted to die because he was suffering. Christ chose his suffering and his death as a sacrifice for other people. Christ did not die by his own hands, but from others. He chose peace and love over his own suffering and death. It’s one thing to die because you have no hope and it’s another thing to die to give Hope to everyone else.

          The man in the original article, he died for nothing. He died for his own selfish desires. He died because he thought it was embarrassing to be old.

          Reply View 0 replies
      • skibbityboop 3 days ago

        Yes, when dementia has you terrified of, or raging at, your closest loved ones (who you don't remember at all so you think they're demons or strangers) all day every day to the point where they all can't stand you and feel terrible for wishing death would come to end your massive suffering. Beautiful moments, just beautiful.

        Hanging in there with cancer? Sure, fight it and deal with the pain. Dementia? No, please end it. The two aren't even close in comparison, cancer feels easy and merciful.

        Reply View 10 replies
      • raw_anon_1111 3 days ago

        My only definition of “morality” is are you doing something that affects other people. If you aren’t doing anything to hurt other people, I consider that “morally neutral”. If you aren’t doing anything to help other people, that’s “morally good”.

        How is my hypothetically deciding to end my own suffering “morally bad”? I don’t owe suffering from a terminal illness to anyone.

        Your calculation for what you will suffer to enjoy another day of life may be different than mine and that’s fine.

        Reply View 5 replies
      • leakycap 3 days ago

        > If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.

        No, it sounds like you would be disappointed in that scenario. Many would be elated to get through this hell-hole relatively joyous & unscathed.

        Reply View 0 replies
      • MyOutfitIsVague 3 days ago

        The historical Jesus was with a high degree of certainty quite different than the way he is currently remembered and the way he is portrayed in much of the new testament. The majority of the stories involving him either did not happen or were significantly changed between when the event occurred and when, generations later, it was recorded.

        I see your last paragraph as naive, and cruelly dismissive of what true suffering is. It is possible to be in a place where the only life you have left is excruciating and intolerable. You are in a privileged position to have never seen a beloved family member die a slow and terrible death, or to have had a serious prolonged health event and have the moment of realization that for some people, your horrible weeks of insufferable illness are their entire experience of life, and wonder if you'd even want to live if that was all you had left.

        Reply View 3 replies
  • Viliam1234 3 days ago

    > Suffering has a purpose

    Maybe some suffering has a purpose, and some suffering does not? It doesn't have to be always this or always that.

    Reply View 0 replies
  • circlefavshape 3 days ago

    Let's see how you handle suffering when it comes knocking on your door

    Reply View 8 replies
    • lukan 3 days ago

      He shared his brother had shizophrenia and much later died of it. I assume he did got a glimpse into what suffering means.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45548996

      Reply View 7 replies
      • leakycap 3 days ago

        Seeing someone else experience something is not the same as having it happen to you, and those who wish to instill their opinion on others often have the smallest worldviews and ability to think about what it might be like to experience what someone else is going through.

        Reply View 6 replies