Comment by raw_anon_1111
Comment by raw_anon_1111 3 days ago
If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better.
And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.
Comment by raw_anon_1111 3 days ago
If I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer, my life isn’t going to get better.
And please don’t bring some mythical being in the argument.
"And I want to live every last second of it."
Glad for you. I really hope you never come into a situation that you wish for your life to end. But please take into account, that other people might experience life different at times.
No one has a death wish, because things are a bit rough sometimes. But if life is constant hell and when there is no hope anymore. Then you wish for death to release you.
(Also do you know what latestage cancer can mean? Constant pain that does not go away, ever.
And Jesus might have been a real person, but that he choose crucification out of his own choice is very much part of the mythological story that other people told after his death)
So many of you, here are thinking that my father did not die of a rapid metastatic cancer. Or that I held my schizophrenic brother in my arms after he tried to overdose on pills. Or that I’m not suffering from a disorder that I’m not going to detail here.
When you deal with suffering every day, you come to have a different relationship with it that is, if you don’t take the view of material list and instead follow the past of the several spiritual leaders who dealt with suffering and understood it in a way that is much deeper than “suffering is bad”.
Christ test there is much more complicated than he wanted to die because he was suffering. Christ chose his suffering and his death as a sacrifice for other people. Christ did not die by his own hands, but from others. He chose peace and love over his own suffering and death. It’s one thing to die because you have no hope and it’s another thing to die to give Hope to everyone else.
The man in the original article, he died for nothing. He died for his own selfish desires. He died because he thought it was embarrassing to be old.
Yes, when dementia has you terrified of, or raging at, your closest loved ones (who you don't remember at all so you think they're demons or strangers) all day every day to the point where they all can't stand you and feel terrible for wishing death would come to end your massive suffering. Beautiful moments, just beautiful.
Hanging in there with cancer? Sure, fight it and deal with the pain. Dementia? No, please end it. The two aren't even close in comparison, cancer feels easy and merciful.
It’s interesting to read here how many people believe their thoughts are themselves. They are more worried about losing their minds than losing their limbs. Your thoughts and memories are as much you as your hand or your foot. As a society, I think we’ve become so attached to our “self“ that we think is “me“. These people who lose their minds, do they have a sense of self? And if they have a sense of self, do they suffer? Cause you really can’t suffer if you have no sense of self. It may look like you’re suffering from the outside, but it’s hard to say with someone deep in dementia or Alzheimer’s if they’re suffering. I don’t know if it’s something that ever can be known or if it’s ever been asked. I know I have a friend‘s mother right now pretty deep into dementia and she seems OK with everything.
But this is what happened with the man in the original article. He had a sense of himself that he wanted preserve. And that to me as a sickness, a spiritual sickness, greediness almost.
How is it “greedy”? I consider greediness as hoarding resources more than you need thst could help someone else. You are not being greedy for refusing to suffer especially when you don’t have any dependents.
My only definition of “morality” is are you doing something that affects other people. If you aren’t doing anything to hurt other people, I consider that “morally neutral”. If you aren’t doing anything to help other people, that’s “morally good”.
How is my hypothetically deciding to end my own suffering “morally bad”? I don’t owe suffering from a terminal illness to anyone.
Your calculation for what you will suffer to enjoy another day of life may be different than mine and that’s fine.
> How is my hypothetically deciding to end my own suffering “morally bad”?
Because you’re saying that life is not worth living at some point. But that’s just my level of morality. I think life is so rare and precious that I do not even want to miss the suffering that’s given to me.
And that’s your personal choice. No one is advocating killing people who don’t have the mental capacity to decide.
> If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.
No, it sounds like you would be disappointed in that scenario. Many would be elated to get through this hell-hole relatively joyous & unscathed.
The historical Jesus was with a high degree of certainty quite different than the way he is currently remembered and the way he is portrayed in much of the new testament. The majority of the stories involving him either did not happen or were significantly changed between when the event occurred and when, generations later, it was recorded.
I see your last paragraph as naive, and cruelly dismissive of what true suffering is. It is possible to be in a place where the only life you have left is excruciating and intolerable. You are in a privileged position to have never seen a beloved family member die a slow and terrible death, or to have had a serious prolonged health event and have the moment of realization that for some people, your horrible weeks of insufferable illness are their entire experience of life, and wonder if you'd even want to live if that was all you had left.
> You are in a privileged position to have never seen a beloved family member die a slow and terrible death,
can I say this is not true without going into details?
is it because I had insight of my suffering that were different than yours that you don’t believe me?
It's probably because I've experienced a family member's suffering that I wouldn't wish anybody to do through, and also had health events myself that led to such a "reduced quality of life" (read: constant discomfort bordering on torment, allowing no comfort, relaxation, sleep, or ability to focus on anything even mildly enjoyable.) for several months on end that I considered that if believed it would never get better from that point, I really wouldn't want to live anymore. It was effectively an anxiety attack that stayed at maximum intensity for three months solid, and didn't respond to any kinds of drugs, even benzos. I was constantly terrified that I was going to die, and I couldn't hold conversations during the entire period. During this period, I considered that there are people who experienced my condition as a lifelong experience, rather than a temporary, albeit long, episode. For people with dissociative disorders and dementia, they experience something like that, but with significantly higher terror and without even a reasonable grasp on reality. My horrible experience that made me ponder how much more I could survive is somebody else's "good day".
"It's going to get better" is a reasonable position. "It's not going to get better, but still keep hanging on while you experience intolerable torment for all the time you have left, however long it may be" is sadistic and sick.
Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all.
But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering.
Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best it can possibly be. Whether I’m seeing this gorgeous sunny blue sky today or I’m 95 years old with terminal cancer. It’s a miracle to be born and to exist in this world, it’s extremely rare. And I want to live every last second of it. Maybe that’s what’s upsetting me about reading what he wrote. If you just try to grab the good times in this life and use that as a goal you’re going to be severely disappointed.