SXX 11 hours ago

Talking of cheap and powerful devices one can also look at Chinese UZ801 4G LTE (Qualcomm MSM8916) dongles. They cost like only $4-5 and pack quite impressive HW: 4GB eMMC, 512MB RAM, actual 4G modem sometimes with 2 sim switching support. Since it's actually old Android SOC there is even GPU and GPS in there. And a lot of work was already done on supporting them:

https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Zhihe_series_LTE_dongles_...

https://github.com/OpenStick/OpenStick

So yeah if you looking for hardware platform for weird homelab projects that's can be it.

  • happyhardcore 11 hours ago

    I've found [1] to be the best guide for getting started with them; you need to make a copy of the firmware partitions that you re-flash after installing Linux onto it in order to get the 4G modem working. It's honestly absurd how much you're getting for a fiver with it; add a power bank (or make your own from scavenged vape batteries in the spirit of this post) and you have a full Linux machine with WiFi and 4G that can work almost anywhere.

    [1] https://wvthoog.nl/openstick/

    • motorest 11 hours ago

      What an interesting gadget! It looks like it has most of the features of an Orange Pi Zero, but at around 1/5th of the price.

      • sitzkrieg 10 hours ago

        it's almost like everything matching the pi footprint is severely overpriced!

  • Rzor 8 hours ago

    In case anyone wants a few links containing this SOC or similar, there's an entire article on Hackaday and a bunch of links shared in the comments:

    https://hackaday.com/2022/08/03/hackable-20-modem-combines-l... (search for Alibaba/Aliexpress/Amazon)

    Before stumbling on this link I actually found one that mentions a MSM8916 in the description (it even has a screen, sadly no RAM information):

    https://aliexpress.com/item/1005007496178143.html

  • user_7832 10 hours ago

    > Qualcomm MSM8916

    Well hullo there, turns out that's my old mate, the Snapdragon 410! Quite an unexpected surprise!

    And funnily in retrospect, my Moto G3 from 2015 (which I still occasionally use for whatsapp!) has the exact same processor, and turns out base android (7) is (un?)surprisingly efficient when you're not doing much! I totally believe you could get a lightweight linux distro going on; I'm more impressed by such an old (and mobile!) chipset still having some sort of vestigial support!

    (Fun fact, iirc this was one of the first processors to get 64 bit support for android but motorola wasn't able to port it over in time for the launch. Hence it runs 32 bit android instead!)

  • Telemakhos an hour ago

    > 4GB eMMC, 512MB RAM

    And, that Snapdragon is 1.4 GHz, I think.

    That's enough for a bare-bones WordPress installation.

    My first laptop had a 100 MB had drive, 8 MB of RAM, and a 25 MHz processor, and I remember running a web server on it too, in addition to Windows 3.11 and word processors and other software. One of those dongles would have been godlike power back in those days.

    I feel like somewhere along the way scripting got out of hand. Stuff like Wordpress is absurdly resource intensive.

  • sandreas 9 hours ago

    My biggest Problem with these devices is

    a.) the world of electronics is moving too fast

    b.) My lack of skills and time to build something really cool with something like this

    A while ago i bought a licheerv nano (similar to luckfox pico or Milk-v duo) to build an open source iPod nano via usb-c audio Jack and the open source buildroot for the licheerv nano.

    I did not find a suitable 2.4 inch or at least < 3"touch display that worked with the integrated MPI port.

    With LVGL it should be doable to build a small portable audioplayer with acceptable features... But not for me :-)

  • marcosscriven 7 hours ago

    Where do you get them for $5? Cheapest I can find is around £8 (11 USD), and it’s not clear if they have this chip.

    • SXX 2 hours ago

      Well, I guess my post was slightly misguided on price because I bought them in South East Asia and they look a bit more pricey in EU / US now. Might be some tariff price changes played the role IDK.

      As for the chip basically almost all USB+LTE+WIFI sticks on Chinese marketplaces using it. They all have slightly different way to get adb / edl and flash, but all seems somewhat open.

    • haunter 7 hours ago

      Yeah you won't find them for $5 unless you buy in bulk on Alibaba

      Aliexpress has this as the best selling one though the chipset is not confirmed https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006924641101.html

      Well I take my gamble, wait 2 weeks and see what I'll get

      • mrandish 6 hours ago

        Just fyi, the device at that link is currently showing $9.62 for a single unit, once logged in and the one-time-only "Welcome deals" are eliminated. But AliExpress pricing can vary hour by hour based on seller, inventory, algorithm, RNG.

  • VladVladikoff 9 hours ago

    Speaking of cheap and powerful, I’m looking for a dirt cheap android phone that has a decent camera. I used to ship out GoPros to my customers but I don’t actually need them to film in 4K, 1080p with a decent CCD would be fine. And lately new GoPro models have become a pain to setup, they require pairing with a modern mobile phone which my customers sometimes don’t have.

  • heavyset_go 3 hours ago

    Reminds me of the LTE dongles Freedom Pop would give out that were running Linux. If you took them apart you got UART access, too.

  • e145bc455f1 10 hours ago

    Where do i get a MSM8916 board for commercial usage at low volumes(1k)?

    • dolmen 9 hours ago

      What about disassembling 1k dongles?

      • cjaackie 9 hours ago

        underrated comment, probably the way to go with an older chip and under 1k volumes.

      • tonyhart7 9 hours ago

        "What about disassembling 1k dongles?"

        deadass this literally what they do in china, they just disassemble e-waste that don't get used and resell that oversees

        • SpicyUme 4 hours ago

          A relative bought several products from Chinese company for a small product development. When he found the most suited device he asked if they'd sell without the enclosure, and maybe 1-2 other boards. They told him at 1000 pcs the best option was to buy them and toss the enclosure.

  • mschuster91 6 hours ago

    Now what I'd like to see is the other way around - you know, like the "old" UMTS sticks, just for 5G. No OS, especially not one so prone to all sorts of security like Android, just a pure baseband chip, some interface chip that talks USB3, two built-in antennas and the option to connect more powerful/higher directionality external antennas.

  • MuffinFlavored 7 hours ago

    Do any of the modem bands work in America? If so... what carrier?

    • WorldPeas 6 hours ago

      I've heard T-mobile works well with Chinese phones

x187463 12 hours ago

Re-using this sort of device is super cool. I can imagine a post-apocalyptic scenario where a city is run on a hodgepodge of random computing devices like this.

I will say, though, disposable vapes with microcontrollers inside (and even full games and screens from recent reporting) are an egregious source of e-waste. Many layers of stupid are present here.

  • patapong 12 hours ago

    Another example: One-time covid tests with a microcontroller, optical sensor to read the result and bluetooth to connect to a phone to display the results. Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29698887

  • beAbU 12 hours ago

    I've been aware about the perfectly reusable lithium batteries inside these disposable vapes, which is egregious enough.

    But the one in the FTA comes with a full fat microcontroller and USB-C connector! I'm not clear if these connectors are accessible outside or if you need to break open the packaging before being able to get to it.

    Like you said: "Many layers of stupid are present here"

    All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!

    • pbhjpbhj 10 hours ago

      >All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!

      I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable.

      I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.

      • parliament32 9 hours ago

        > I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps

        Never, because we have virtually unlimited space for landfills, and landfill tech has quietly been improving over the last few centuries, to the point that landfills are cheap, non-polluting, and entirely carbon neutral. Countries with less land mass (Europe et al) prefer incineration (mainly to save space, despite it being significantly worse for the environment and much more expensive (although with the newer energy reclamation efforts this is getting better)).

        IMO it's not worth worrying about landfills too much. Household waste makes up about 3% of total landfill waste (when you add commercial/industrial/agricultural) in North America. You and your bun wrapper are truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

      • jazzyjackson 10 hours ago

        The cheapness of plastic just to speaks to the enormous demand for all the other oil products sold, it's practically a byproduct.

      • numpad0 8 hours ago

        Not sure how those are related. We only eat food coming in packaging comparable to transplanted organ because companies can't afford poisoning lawsuits because humans are so expensive.

        Lots of people especially those generally "up north" undermine risks and therefore costs of food poisoning, but it's real. Haven't those people seen things growing molds?

        • forty 5 hours ago

          How is plastic on bread related with food poisoning? Here in France baguettes are wrapped in paper and are eaten within a day or two of being made (or else they get dry). if you keep them for long enough, molds will grow on it, then you see them and don't eat that old bread (even though it's unlikely to be too bad for most people, the taste is certainly not great). I'd be surprised if anyone ever got food poisoned with bread.

      • userbinator 7 hours ago

        As soon as there is demand, I'm sure they'll start mining. Provided it doesn't leave the planet, everything is recycled on a long enough timescale.

    • rglullis 12 hours ago

      Between (a) component that costs tens of cents to mass produce and can be bought off the shelf and is reusable vs (b) component that needs actual experienced electronics engineers working on a single-use design that can not be repurposed later, I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.

      • afiori 11 hours ago

        > can not be repurposed later

        whether it can be repurposed is worth little in being wasteful if >99% go to the landfill.

        > I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.

        Monetarily? sure. Environmentally? unlikely

      • dijit 11 hours ago

        I don't follow the logic.

        Because humans are expensive? Or because we can maybe re-use the components if an (expensive) human comes and retrieves the components?

        Sorry for being dumb here.

        • rglullis 9 hours ago

          A combination of:

          - humans are expensive.

          - If you want a custom part, you will need specialized equipment to build that part.

          - If you want a custom part, you will maybe need to transport that part all around the world, while the off-the-shelf components might already be available close to your assembly plant.

    • dole 9 hours ago

      The USB-C connectors are mostly for charging, and IME it'll take 4-6 full cycle charges until most are out of vape juice and disposable so they're always accessible. The packaging usually is snap-together with no screws so it's a puzzle.

      I'm still surprised to see the fancier LCDs used which range from 2x4cm - slim 1.5x3cm (Digiflower, Raz is super popular.) Most LCD vapes which range from $20-25 are starting to fall by the wayside for $13-15 vapes with simple SMD LED displays with color overlays, (Kadobar, Geek Bar, Cookies, North) easy to make 7-segments for battery/juice status. Some are elaborate with wraparound displays that I've mistaken for flexible OLED and are deceptively cheap.

  • palata 11 hours ago

    The fact that selling such a thing is profitable means that we lack regulations somewhere.

    • gwbas1c 10 hours ago

      No, it means computing has gotten so %$#@ cheap that it's cheaper to just cobble together cheap parts instead of spending the money to design a purposed device.

      • palata 10 hours ago

        That's not mutually exclusive with what I said.

        Laws are not here to make money, they are here to decide what kind of society we want. If electronics is too cheap and it creates wastes, I'm of the opinion that we should make it illegal, period.

    • scotty79 3 hours ago

      I think we need a regulation about trash. To be allowed to sell products containing things like electronic or plastics companies should be forced to collect x amount of this kind of trash.

    • ramesh31 11 hours ago

      >The fact that selling such a thing is profitable means that we lack regulations somewhere.

      It's the exact opposite. Tobacco is so heavily regulated and taxed that these become profitable. If cigarettes were 3-4$ a pack (which they would be without sin taxes and regulatory overhead), the vape market would come down as well and there's no way these could be profitable. As it is, they retail around $20 and contain the same nicotine as multiple $10 packs of cigarettes.

      • rebolek 10 hours ago

        The regulation was written in time when there were no such devices. Are they "healthier" (less damaging) for the user? If yes, let's tax them lower. Are they less damaging for whole population? Considering the e-waste, I guess not, but it's not up to me to decide. If they aren't, they shouldn't be taxed higher that cigs, if yes, let's change the regulation.

        • lyu07282 9 hours ago

          Because they contain so much more nicotine they are way more addicting, way better for the lungs than smoking but still bad for cardiovascular health. Disposables should be illegal for environmental protection reasons, that's a bit unrelated though since these companies can very easily switch to reusable/pod-systems.

          We want people to vape rather than smoke tobacco, obviously, it's not a zero-sum issue.

      • andoando 9 hours ago

        They need to regulate the nicotine content. In Canada its 2% at least. In the US its pretty much 5% juice only.

        5% is 50mg/1ml. A cigarette pack has about 25mg. A geek bar has 16ml of juice = 800mg of nicotine = 32 packs of cigarettes.

      • rixed 7 hours ago

        Cigarettes could sell at 3-4$ a pack only because some regulation are in place that enforce the total separation of manufacturing and selling those packs from paying the cost for the societal damages wrt. health, pollution, littering...

        There are many possible ways to slice the economical cake.

        • ShroudedNight 5 hours ago

          I'm not sure what your point is here.

          1) They don't sell for $3-4 a pack, yet your post seems to imply that the system has failed for cigarettes.

          2) For externalities beyond the input cost of a product, the default [natural] condition is for those costs not to be included - one needn't enforce anything. Rather, it requires that someone with power put their thumb on the scale to enforce the inclusion of those costs during a sale[1].

          [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigouvian_tax

      • dpc050505 10 hours ago

        You can get 10 packs for 20$CAD on reservations in Canada, and that's for decent cigarettes in packaging, the really cheap ones in ziploc bags go even cheaper. 3-4$ a pack is still a decent markup.

      • palata 9 hours ago

        > It's the exact opposite. Tobacco is so heavily regulated and taxed that these become profitable.

        It's not the opposite at all. Tobacco should disappear just as well.

    • spacephysics 11 hours ago

      The fact something is profitable (even vices) does not mean it requires regulations, unless the regulation in mind is direct or indirect cap on profit margins?

      • 0xffff2 11 hours ago

        The missing regulation is some kind of tax or other disincentive against e-waste. I believe the premise of the GP is that such things can only be profitable if we chose to ignore their environmental impact.

      • strbean 10 hours ago

        I think it's a lack of regulation to prevent negative externalities. Particularly with respect to waste management / product lifecycle.

        • rixed 7 hours ago

          ...and consumption/dispersion/degradation of the finite/rare/precious resources used in the manufacturing process, which we could also factor in, if we wanted to be serious.

      • palata 9 hours ago

        E-waste like this exists because it's legal and profitable.

        I believe that we as a society don't want e-waste (at least I don't). And when the society does not want something profitable to be done, it sets regulations.

        If it wasn't illegal to steal your neighbour's car and sell it, then it would be profitable. But we as a society don't want it to happen.

  • kilroy123 12 hours ago
    • amelius 11 hours ago

      How do I build a 6502 from just the elements?

      • vdupras 11 hours ago

        You begin by making a pen "from just the elements", then work your way up to there.

        In other words, it's a huge challenge, but 6502 is closer, in complexity, to the pen than to the, say, AMD Ryzen.

        But the primary idea behind Collapse OS isn't to run from 6502 built from the ground up (although it partly is), but to run from frankenstein cobbled up machines made from scavenged parts.

    • robterrell 11 hours ago

      holy crap, what a rabbit hole you sent me down.

  • whycome 5 hours ago

    Are they an egregious form of Ewaste really? (Serious question). Because there’s so much reusable hardware in so many of the other things we throw out (phones, cars, laptops, etc) but we don’t make reasonable efforts to limit that. I’d love if the vape hardware was standardized to a degree for cool reuse projects like this. Donate a bunch of used vapes as hardware platforms for school projects? Like arduinos…but not.

    • bjackman 5 hours ago

      Most of these vapes are reusable as vapes. They just get sold as disposable and the manufacturers don't include a refill mechanism.

      I am very strongly pro-vape more generally but disposable ones should absolutely be illegal. They only serve to a) make them more attractive to casual users (instead of people switching from tobacco) and b) generate waste. Zero benefit to society.

      There was a time when people could argue "the upfront cost of a proper vape is a problem that could keep people from switching from cigarettes". That's no longer true, there are incredibly cheap and compact refillable vapes now. (Well, there kinda always were, but they used to be crap. No longer).

      The solution here isn't reuse it's just to stop production of them completely.

      • estimator7292 5 hours ago

        IMO the most egregious part is that all of these vapes come with perfectly good rechargable lithium batteries at a time where lithium is one of the most important resources.

        And they all just go into a landfill without ever being recharged once. It really should be criminal.

      • whycome 5 hours ago

        Why are they so cheap? Is this a place where some sort of recovery tax makes sense then?

        • estimator7292 5 hours ago

          They're cheap because they're produced in the millions if not billions. At that scale, each individual unit becomes disgustingly cheap. Some factory in China is pumping them out as fast as possible and slapping on the brand name of whoever is buying.

  • gadders 9 hours ago

    Disposable vapes were banned in the UK. Which in practise has meant that manufacturers have added the cheapest possible charging port which is non-standard so nobody can charge them and no way to open them to refill them.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/disposable-vape-ban-loo...

    • Cheer2171 3 hours ago

      I actually read the article you linked and these are clearly just shopkeepers breaking the law, lying about these being compliant. There is no legal loophole, except if you count a lack of enforcement as a loophole.

    • chuckadams 7 hours ago

      Maybe they should start charging a deposit per vape, and make the manufacturers pay the cost of recycling or proper disposal.

    • alanbernstein 8 hours ago

      This is amazing, it reminds me of a biology article about a new life form that is not quite virus, not quite bacteria, but something that manages to blur the line between them.

      Resource extraction eventually fills all niches, for better or for worse.

  • Mistletoe 12 hours ago

    Will the Butlerian Jihad find all the vapes?

    • ffsm8 12 hours ago

      [flagged]

      • i80and 12 hours ago

        This is an exceedingly strange comment -- you made up a silly thing to get upset about, and are making fun of people who aren't upset about the thing, because you think it's the sort of thing they would be upset about, even though it isn't and you say as much?

        This feels like a whole new category of straw man.

        • jeej 12 hours ago

          "thinking of inventing a new type of person to get mad at on here. maybe people who carry too many keys around.. i dont know yet"

          -Dril

      • Findecanor 11 hours ago

        The word "jihad" has a wider meaning than "holy war". It would better be translated into "worthy struggle" — with "worthy" being very subjective.

        Islam is in fact the largest religion (by worshippers) in the world today, so Frank Herbert's assumption that a culture derived from it would be dominant in a future society is just extrapolation.

      • int_19h 10 hours ago

        There are many discussions on this exact topic online.

        TL;DR: while Dune has many references to various concepts coming from Islamic societies throughout, the Fremen are the obvious stand-in for Arabs specifically, and so get the most attention. And, in the context of the first book at least, Fremen are the "good guys" in many ways - if you reframe it in modern terms, they are the natives fighting against a colonial empire that subjugates them in order to extract a valuable resource from their lands, and then on top of that there's also the more subtle ecological angle.

      • zknow 12 hours ago

        Really? I thought that it was kind of a ecumenist religion that included themes from many religions.

      • staplers 12 hours ago

          obsessively woke people
        
        Because most "woke" stuff is made up or blown out of proportion by people on the internet. One person might do one thing and the video/meme goes viral and people eat up the story like its some movement
  • spicyusername 11 hours ago

    It's a shame negative externalities like this are basically impossible to include in the up-front price.

    • palata 11 hours ago

      I feel like a law saying "don't put electronics in disposable products" would do the job.

      • uyzstvqs 10 hours ago

        Almost every electronic device becomes disposable at some point, some sooner than others. Just make sure you bring them to an e-waste bin when that time comes. E-waste recycling is a profitable business, so there's always one nearby in my experience.

        If you have some old Samsung Galaxy Gio from 2011, it'll provide far more value by recycling it back to raw materials than it would if you'd somehow try to keep it usable in 2025.

        The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.

      • conductr 9 hours ago

        Would you include RFID tags in packaging? If so, you're law needs more nuance back to the drawing board.

      • Someone1234 11 hours ago

        What about Smoke Detectors, since they too are a disposable electronic?

    • reaperducer 11 hours ago

      It's a shame negative externalities like this are basically impossible to include in the up-front price.

      You mean like add the cost of a MRI to the price of a pack of cigarettes?

  • hamomrye34 11 hours ago

    > "A merry little surge of electricity piped by automatic alarm from the mood organ beside his bed awakened Rick Deckard."

    > Dick writes of the IoT being a source of vast-artificial-living-systems functioning on collective compute.

  • schlauerfox 10 hours ago

    I do wonder if there would be a workable law where companies are permanently responsible for what they produce, they must always accept back and responsibly recycle/break down to resources what they put out there, and do away with the shifting of responsibility of waste to society? Seems like a terrible engineering challenge but the right thing to do.

    • hn_acc1 6 hours ago

      That would create a lot of work for corporate lawyers to create shell companies, merge/push-responsibility-onto/unmerge transactions, selling of "waste cleanup credits" by companies who then quickly go bankrupt (after the founders take all the $$ out of the company), etc...

    • 1718627440 9 hours ago

      A lot of EU regulation goes into this direction, but we are still far away from having it for every product.

    • Pxtl 8 hours ago

      Disposal fees were a thing here in Ontario, the idea being that consumers should pay up-front for the cost of disposal, and therefore expensive-to-dispose things (like things containing batteries) should cost more.

      We rewarded the government that brought this plan in by replacing them with Doug Ford, the brother of the infamous late Toronto mayor Rob Ford who was a literal crack-smoking drunk.

      • ShroudedNight 5 hours ago

        I sure as fuck did not vote for Ford, directly or by the local MP proxy. However, I will readily acknowledge that at the time of the election that brought the Progressive Conservative party into power, the Ontario Liberal Party was giving off strong signals that it had essentially given up any attempt at excellence in its execution of public policy, and that it was seemingly bereft of significant insight beyond the then current state of governance.

        They were also hindered by the public's perception of their performance in the matters of Ornge and Hydro One.

        It seems strange to me to frame the results of that election as being a reward for re-internalizing the waste management costs of consumer products.

  • maeln 12 hours ago

    Hope you don't get caught in Luddic Path's space with your stash of contraband disposable vape

jerf 12 hours ago

The mismatch between the Ancient Specs of Yore is kind of interesting. The Commodore 64 had 64KB of RAM, but that RAM was attached to an 8-bit, 1MHz CPU. This thing has call it half the RAM of a Commodore 64, but it's attached to a 32-bit 24MHz CPU the 1980s could only dream of. And it's disposable in 2025. Pretty impressive in a weird way.

  • justincormack 12 hours ago

    Its only got 3k of RAM, 24k of flash. Although modern flash is sometimes the same bandwidth as memory was if you go back a bit, although not latency of course.

  • Narishma 12 hours ago

    It's got only 3KB of RAM, less than even the VIC-20.

    • jerf 12 hours ago

      Whoops, yes. I stand corrected. Tack another order of magnitude or so on to the mismatch.

  • masfuerte 9 hours ago

    The CPU isn't that fantastical for the 1980s. The Archimedes had an 8MHz ARM in 1987. It was expensive though and came with at least 512KB RAM.

    P.S. After I wrote that I looked at the Wikipedia page. Which helpfully reminded me that 1987 was 38 years ago :(

    • jerf 8 hours ago

      Fair enough. I've gotten out of the habit of thinking exponentially about computer performance. Modify my original post to that 1980s 8-bit era of personal computing. I did intend to compare it on the basis of the RAM available, which as is observed in another correction puts this more in the VIC-20 era...

      ... for those of us old enough to even have a mental distinction between "the VIC-20 era" and the "Commodore 64" era rather than just being a smear of bittyboxes all equally uselessly small....

zero_k 11 hours ago

I am happy they demonstrated how useful these devices are. Marking these as "disposable" is a kind of insanity. I recovered a few of them "disposed" (i.e. "randomly thrown away into") in an empty flower pot, and took out the LiPo batteries from them -- which are rechargeable, and have charge circuitry (non-trivial for LiPos). That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.

This is the opposite of repairability. We specifically made them impossible to reuse and refill. Makes my tinkerer (and eco-friendly) heart very sad.

  • userbinator 2 hours ago

    "One man's trash is another man's treasure."

    That we somehow decided that it's OK to design these to be used only once feels wrong.

    But clearly they can be reused, so maybe it's better that they be thrown away by the unknowing, giving those who do know a source of cheap (as in free) electronics?

  • cluckindan 11 hours ago

    There are reusable vapes and reputable stores carry only those, but they are generally many times more expensive than disposable vapes, which are favored by smugglers (profit margins) and underage users (price point and potential seizing by parent/teacher/police).

    Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts.

    • dpc050505 9 hours ago

      My reusable vape cost like 15$. It's basically the same components as a disposable vape, except I can refill a pod and switch the pod if I burn the wick.

      • cluckindan 6 hours ago

        Well, lucky you, I guess? Here they are considered tobacco products and taxed as heavily as cigarettes. I think the cheapest models are around $50.

        That amount buys 10-200 disposable vapes from China, depending on how much you order at once and whether you care about the quality. Meanwhile, street resale prices are about $20 per vape. Smuggler’s heaven.

        The smugglers / bulk sellers do sell to school kids, who then resell to their friends and even online (telegram most probably). Seen so many teenagers walk over as a random car pulls up to exchange vapes for cash. Even seen a big time dealer arriving at a teenager’s house party in a new, expensive car with a trunk full of vapes, accompanied by muscle, talking about how many of each flavor the customer is going to buy.

        Maybe things are better on the other side of the big puddle, even if it means the same things are sold quasi-legally.

    • ThrowawayTestr 9 hours ago

      Everything you said is wrong. Refillable vapes are around the same price as disposables and kids get them from gas station attendants that don't care. What's this about organized crime?

      • cluckindan 7 hours ago

        Not everyone lives in the US. In my country, disposable vapes are banned, so everyone selling or buying them is committing a crime.

    • HaZeust 8 hours ago

      >"Disposable vapes put young people in contact with career criminals and organized crime, who will be only too happy to oblige even if the customer has no money. The result is young people in debt to criminals, which has the exact same ramifications as getting in drug debt. Those young people can then be coerced to commit other crimes to cover their debts."

      This feels like pure fearmongering, and it's not even believable when most people here grew up around cigarettes, dip, or vapes in secondary school throughout the decades, and the dynamic was never anything like what you’re describing. Nobody was getting shaken down for cigarette or vape debts by “organized crime.” It was usually just some older kid or significant other, ex-student, or friend with a hookup who’d buy a pack or device and resell at a small markup. Sometimes it was even just a straight favor.

      Trying to paint disposable vapes as a gateway to mafia debt collection just doesn’t square with lived experience in the US. Plenty of us experimented with nicotine products when we were underage - or know someone who did, and while that had its own health and legal issues, coercion into crime to cover “nicotine debts” simply wasn’t part of it lol

      --

      More people get into organized crime from their local Wal-Mart denying their job application as their only realistic ways to make money from labor, than ever do from nicotine products

      • cluckindan 7 hours ago

        Not everyone lives in the US.

        • HaZeust an hour ago

          what country contradicts my statements? Where in this world is getting spotted a Geek Bar equate to a severe debt that requires crime to pay off? Absurd premise.

  • Eric_WVGG 11 hours ago

    There's a pretty amazing video where a guy makes an entire functioning e-bike battery out of disposable vapes that he gathered around a music festival. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcVp9T8f_W4

    I can't fathom why disposables are legal. Really believed that the post-boomer generations actually gave a damn about waste.

    • epanchin 11 minutes ago

      They’re already illegal in places, eg UK

    • tonyhart7 8 hours ago

      I like to start doing like this, but as you can see I'm like most people here don't have experience on electrical or electronic equipment

      do you have an idea where I can start doing shit like this??? not up to professional of course but as a hobby where I don't need to electrocute myself would be nice

jrmg a day ago

I wouldn’t want to be the lawyer who one day will have to argue how a device with USB C and a rechargeable battery can be classified as “disposable”.

I thought the point of making them like this was that they technically are reusable, so they can sell them (to people who for some reason keep buying them and throwing them away!) in places where disposable vapes are banned.

  • Zak a day ago

    I'm confused by why anybody would buy one of these when entirely reusable versions exist, but then vaping seems unwise to me in general except as a way to quit tobacco.

    • jimmaswell a day ago

      Vaping nicotine doesn't seem that bad to me. AFAICT the dangers outside simple addictiveness are moderate lung irritation and cardiovascular effects, but no strong evidence of cancer caused by vaping alone - far better than cigarettes, and still better than an equivalent drinking problem.

      • levocardia 39 minutes ago

        Amazingly, nicotine is one of the few things in tobacco smoke that isn't carcinogenic.

      • dns_snek 20 hours ago

        Vaping causes inflammation, nicotine suppresses the immune system (which is probably pretty bad news for fighting any other diseases), and nicotine cessation has been linked with an increase in development of autoimmune disorders in the 12-24 month period after quitting.

        I had elevated white blood cells counts and I developed an autoimmune condition a few months after quitting vaping. I had good health record leading up to it and no family history of any autoimmune disorders. White blood cells eventually normalized but autoimmune is forever, although it's under control and I'm lucky that it was caught early.

        In the final ~4 years of vaping I didn't use any flavorings either, just 70/30 mix of VG/PG and nicotine.

        It's not terrible as far as vices go, much less harmful than the alternatives, but it's definitely not as harmless as I thought going in. I wish I hadn't started and went for the ADHD assessment right away instead of subconsciously self-medicating with nicotine.

      • gleenn a day ago

        I don't think adequate studies have taken a look into the long term effects of all the solvents and oils they use aside from the nicotine. Intuitively, this just seems like a terrible idea putting non-water-soluble vapors into your lungs but I am definitely not a doctor.

        • OkayPhysicist 4 hours ago

          It's not exactly a wild list. You can make your own mint vape liquid at home by combining 1 part vegetable glycerin with 1 part glycol, dissolving nicotine salt to the desired concentration (most dangerous part due to nicotine's toxicity, suggest getting it pre-dissolved in either one or both of the above), then dissolving menthol in to taste.

          Don't get me wrong: it's not good for you, but it's a lot less bad for you than cigarettes, and it's not some great mystery as to what's in it.

      • burgerone 21 hours ago

        Vapes are practically unregulated with how many sre being imported from overseas. Health impacts have barely been studied yet.

      • xp84 a day ago

        This is why to me it’s so damn disappointing to me that vaping is targeted so forcefully by the various scolds in the “regulate everything” camp when smoking isn’t yet eradicated. Things like banning flavor and stuff. They want it to be as unpleasant as tobacco, which reduces the likelihood of people switching from tobacco to vaping, killing many of those smokers as a way to “save” teens from taking up an overall not-very-dangerous habit.

    • bloqs a day ago

      i have owned lots. they taste better than most permanent vapes. ive tried the whole buy all the best components and perfect juices etc with various tanks of different flavours. disposables just work and taste good, no leaks. they also have a logical end point like a pack of cigarettes. Its nice to switch flavour more frequently, and the packet/vape body colours pressed deep monkey brain buttons for fruit etc

      • seabird 4 hours ago

        50mg/ml disposable vape liquid tasting better than the freebase stuff is a crazy take. I haven't met a single person who was there before the modern disposable trash that doesn't think it's markedly worse. It tastes like gas station vape juice circa 2012.

        Good reusable systems have been around for 10 years now. Disposables sell well because people like to think that they can quit whenever they want without having to abandon an investment (never mind that the investment in a refillable system is literally cheaper than a single disposable vape in many cases).

      • reassess_blind a day ago

        Yeah, the sweetener they put in the disposables is like crack. If a liquid could replicate it then the switch to reusable would be a no brainer, but I never found one. Alas I switched to nicotine gum and haven’t looked back.

      • gilfoy a day ago

        Looking back, the Juul product seems preferable to the current situation

    • loumf a day ago

      But, then where would you host your website?

      • Ygg2 a day ago

        Used milk carton. It probably has more TFlops than Commodore 64.

    • s-lambert 21 hours ago

      In Australia you need a prescription to get nicotine liquid but every convenience store in any big city sells disposables illegally for cheap.

    • csomar 21 hours ago

      Because reusable versions are a hassle. Cleaning, Charging, Changing Batteries, Changing liquid, etc. Whereas with reusable, well, you just puff and worry about nothing. Which is why people vape in the first place :)

  • bombcar a day ago

    Just like how places with bag bans often just end up with thicker plastic bags that can be sold for ten cents and claimed as “reusable.

    • orev a day ago

      They are reusable, which many people take advantage of. And it has dramatically reduced the number of tumbleweed bags clogging up nature.

      • privatelypublic a day ago

        Reasonable people already reused single-use bags. Trashcan liners, dog walk bags, cat scoop bags, etc.

        Having recently been reminded that it used to be common to see eviscerated VHS tapes by roads, I've been reminded that we'll always have people who litter.

    • ViscountPenguin a day ago

      The majority of people reuse those bags, they're pretty great actually. Most people I know have slightly more expensive bags made out of fabric though.

      • pavon a day ago

        Not here. Standing in line at stores like target that have them I see maybe 1/20 people checking out in front of me bring in reused disposable sacks, while 15/20 leave with new ones. Certainly not enough reuse to justify the extra thickness.

        • bombcar 15 hours ago

          I do really enjoy the thickness, and they do displace the cheaper ones in the tube of spares at home, but they’re just bags at the end of the day.

    • darthwalsh 4 hours ago

      We get most of our groceries through Drive Up services, where you place an order the day before and they bring the groceries to your car. Through a combination of a new disability, and a new baby in our family, the convenience is well worth the price (free).

      But now every week we have more and more reusable bags that we can't find any use for, so we recycle a bunch each quarter. (And even that is questionable, when they are covered in impossible-to-remove stickers.)

    • meibo a day ago

      You've misunderstood the assignment if you don't reuse those, they are perfectly fine for that and will last a long time. Just have one in your bag or car. I've even reused paper bags for more than half a year since the ban.

    • WD-42 a day ago

      They make perfect office/bathroom trash can liners

      • xp84 a day ago

        They do, but they still don’t make it back to the stores enough, and nobody has 16 wastebaskets to line every week. Also the old ones were just as suitable for wastebasket duty.

        The bag laws have done nothing but increase the consumption of plastic, since stores still go through nearly as many, but they’re 5x thicker now.

  • zdragnar a day ago

    Some have replaceable pods / tanks, but most have no user serviceable parts whatsoever.

    One the liquid is low enough, the coil will burn a bit, and the whole thing should be disposed of.

    One shop near me would take used ones and send them off to be properly taken apart and what not, but most people just toss them I suspect.

    • jdietrich 21 hours ago

      The coil is part of the pod and therefore user-replaceable. The point of a pod system is to keep the coil and liquid in a self-contained system, which practically eliminates the risk of liquid leaks. All of these quasi-disposable vapes with replaceable pods and a charging port can be re-used hundreds of times.

      I don't know why people dispose of the whole thing rather than just changing the pod, but at least it's a boon for electronics hobbyists.

    • Gigachad a day ago

      Some of the new ones have the coil and vape juice in a disposable section while the battery and charge circuitry are reused.

    • ChrisMarshallNY a day ago

      Each morning, I walk 5K. I start off in the dark. By midwinter, the whole walk is in the dark.

      I am constantly walking past disposable vapes in the street, with their LEDs still shining.

      • macintux a day ago

        Growing up, smoking was quite common. A lot can change in 20-30 years, so I'm cautiously optimistic that maybe vaping will eventually become as socially unacceptable as smoking.

    • extraduder_ire a day ago

      If you're in the EU/UK the WEEE directive means anywhere selling them should take them back like-for-like to be directed into the correct waste stream. (they get paid some of the deposit on them to do so)

      I would be more fine with disposable vapes like this if almost all of them were recovered somehow, for the amount it subsidises production of Li-ion batteries.

      • xp84 a day ago

        Theoretically a high enough deposit could probably “fix the problem.” Like, if the empty was worth a $25 deposit most people would 100% take them back to the store. It would be annoying for people to have the high deposit, but it’s really a one-time expense.

        On the other hand at least in the US, a deposit of a buck or two wouldn’t do much. California has that for cans and bottles, yet only maybe 10% of people turn them in. Most end up in curbside recycling (which doesn’t refund) or the garbage, indicating people don’t care about getting their nickel or dime back.

        • darthwalsh 4 hours ago

          Where I live in CA, many end up going to some stranger who rifles through everybody's curbside recycling bin before trash day. It's sad that times are hard, and this is the side job we've accidentally invented.

      • nicbou a day ago

        That's the theory. I practice, even in famously recycling-obsessed Germany, it's impossible to return electronics in places that are required to accept them, even two years after that law passed. The staff is really confused when you try.

  • cjaackie a day ago

    No, it’s there because the battery can’t hold enough charge for the ratio of vape liquid they put in it. So you get 2-3 full charges and it runs out of liquid.

nusl 12 hours ago

Disposable vapes are an abomination that somehow society has normalised.

  • mcdonje 12 hours ago

    Society tends to normalize things that have ad budgets.

    • toast0 10 hours ago

      Do vapes have ad budgets? All I see are anti-vape ads?

      • isoprophlex 9 hours ago

        They represent the most viable pathway for big tobacco to exit regular cigarettes, which are in decline or at least struggling. AND vapes have huge traction with younger people. It's basically The Thing that big tobacco needs to go all in on if they want to keep selling carcinogenic air to people for the next 50 years

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  • NoSalt 11 hours ago

    Not to mention the EXTREME damage it can do to a person's lungs, and do this damage very quickly.

    • cluckindan 11 hours ago

      Probably not, unless there are very specific substances in the liquid being vaped.

      There are two known culprits: diacetyl is/was used in some flavorings for its buttery taste, and liquid Vitamin E oil was used in clandestinely produced THC vape cartridges (which are really not relevant for the topic at hand). Both of those have largely disappeared from the market.

      Sure, some cheap components can in theory leach heavy metals into liquids. The amounts are insignificant compared to what you will be breathing in just by walking on city streets, even outside rush hour.

      And at least vapes don’t contain polonium-210 like cigarettes do.

droobles 12 hours ago

Long live hacking! This is what Hacker News is all about. Great article and fun project!

NoSalt 11 hours ago

The current state of technology is ... weird. From AI doing our art instead of our work, to hosting a website on an eCigarette. "Weird" is the only word I can think of at this moment.

isoprophlex 11 hours ago

Could one say that the author found the ultimate computing platform for running vaporware?

duncangh an hour ago

Getting a 503 error now upon request to the vape hosted blog. Safe to say that it got smoked by the hacker news traffic volume!

RedShift1 12 hours ago

We need to reduce microplastics.

Let's put microcontrollers into disposable vapes.

I don't know if I'm sad or happy.

  • grues-dinner 11 hours ago

    The micro in this thing is a WQFN-16 (W = very very thin, thinner than V for very) with 3x3x0.75mm body. That's around a fiftieth of a gram of plastic.

    I think the bigger SOIC chip is probably the battery charge IC. And then maybe a gram or two of PCB epoxy. And the plastic in the battery pouch and membranes which you need anyway.

    In terms of plastics waste volume, the casing and tank is probably nearly all of the content. So the problem is a disposable vape bring a thing at all, not really the microcontroller in there.

    It feels mad and somehow wasteful that you can get a CPU at that price point, but the die itself is a tiny sliver of silicon. You can even embed an (even tinier) and weedier application-specific) IC in a paper metro ticket. Compute is just so ridiculously cheap that you can have a hundred of functional ICs for the cost of a single largish cup of hot bean water.

    • citizenpaul 11 hours ago

      The mfg/mining process for the chips is probably equally bad.

      All for a device to help you develop health problems.

      • grues-dinner 11 hours ago

        There's more silicon in the battery charge controller probably (bigger transistors). The MCU is just a speck. Ironically making these disposable vapes "reusable" causes more e-waste as now they need a connector and charge controller and a bigger PCB.

      • cluckindan 11 hours ago

        You could say that for a lot of devices.

        It is indisputable that anyone switching cigarette smoking to vaping is making a healthier choice.

distances 11 hours ago

By law, neither electronics nor batteries can be disposed of with generic waste. This is the case in the EU, at least. So how are people then disposing these devices?

Disclaimer: I do know the answer, but I'd rather pretend that people actually follow the law.

  • avian 11 hours ago

    The vape comes with a miniature laser-engraved WEEE crossed-out trash can symbol so everything is fine.

dev0p 19 hours ago

I am SHOCKED everytime I am reminded those Disposable Vapes exist.

My friend, that is a Portable Computer you are holding in Your Hands, and You are THROWING IT AWAY after ONE SINGLE USE?

Insane.

At least the fact that we got to this point in the first place is certainly an achievement for humanity as a whole?

jumploops 8 hours ago

Meta comment: I don’t think I’ve ever seen a HN thread with this ratio of upvotes to comments (8 vs. 251)

Disposable vapes are an extreme failure of legislation, but this is a cool hack nonetheless!

peteforde 12 hours ago

I see that as of the time of this comment, he hasn't run Doom on it.

Yet?

  • jsheard 12 hours ago

    3kb of RAM and 24kb of flash is a bit tight for Doom unfortunately. It has been ported to another Cortex-M0+ microcontroller, the RP2040, but that has 264kb of RAM plus megabytes of flash and the game still barely fits.

  • reaperducer 11 hours ago

    I see that as of the time of this comment, he hasn't run Doom on it.

    Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them…

    • cruffle_duffle 10 hours ago

      I was just thinking about that slashdot meme the other day. Like Beowulf clusters were the dream! Imagine one! I wanted one! Everybody did!

      And now you can spin that shit up for pennies an hour and then throw it all away when you are done.

      Who would have seen that coming back in, what, 1998…

1970-01-01 12 hours ago

I always forget about the idea that IPv6 was intended to allow literally everything to have an address. The mouse, keyboard, display, etc. Seems like a bad idea now, but back then it was considered as part of the overall plan for the nearly infinite space. Maybe the joke is still missing a punchline. We've had this generic device interface for decades but decided on proprietary and arbitrary standards of device communication to make our lives easier in the short-term.

tgtweak 6 hours ago

Missed opportunity to put a 503:Vape Unavailable http error.

analog31 a day ago

So the EEs are right. Electrical circuits run on magic smoke.

coffeecantcode 2 hours ago

Appcolypse plan: Ammo? Canned food? Fresh water? No.

1,200 geek bars in a faraday cage.

curvaturearth 8 hours ago

I used to see disposable vapes dumped on the street until they were banned (thankfully). All those wasted batteries and microcontrollers is really wasteful.

notorandit 5 hours ago

Nice. But ...

> Later modems used PPP (Point-to-Point Protocol)

PPP a (c)slip are not used by modems but by the computers whose serials are up and running. Even without modems.

NoiseBert69 12 hours ago

I bought a few hundred Puyas for my lab as stock for projects. They are quite capable and very cheap uCs to have around.

  • grues-dinner 12 hours ago

    Apparently they're cheap because they're a flash memory company that bolts a little CPU onto their own flash, rather than a CPU company having to then buy the more expensive flash with a markup.

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zsimjee 8 hours ago

Can someone please make a zyn tin container for these?

BogdanTheGeek a day ago

so I had to throw nginx in front of it so my little router wouldn't explode, but I hope some people will get to experience the relaxing loading experience live.

  • temp0826 a day ago

    The HN way is to colocate a cluster of these and put them behind a F5

r0bbbo 10 hours ago

Has anyone done the joke about "next big cloud platform" yet?

gabriel666smith a day ago

This is cool, but, man, I felt like such a pathetic excuse for a human being when, brutally craving nicotine, with my vape empty of the fruit-flavoured juice that I am literally addicted to like the stupid pathetic baby that I am, and stuck with the cravings because all the shops are closed until morning, and so, in need of a distraction, I opened Hacker News. FFS.

Sometimes the only option is to laugh at your own expense! Clearly this is a sign. I should buy more juice next time. And maybe start smoking more actual cigs.

  • midasz 8 hours ago

    Quitting smoking was the best decision I made and I wish I did it earlier. If you feel ready Allen Carr's book worked for me. I wasted so much time smoking.

  • panarchy a day ago

    Having an addiction doesn't make anyone "a pathetic excuse for a human being"

    • gabriel666smith a day ago

      I agree wholeheartedly.

      I've been (I am?) addicted to many substances, from fruit-flavoured nicotine juice through to heroin.

      I find self-deprecating humour useful, personally. It helps me not wallow, to take the cravings less seriously. I of course wouldn't say the same about anyone who isn't me.

      Because, as you say, someone who has an addiction isn't lesser than anyone else. It's a state of being that requires an awful lot of strength.

      That said, having to use that strength on 'mango e-liquid' is, I think, funny in an absurdist way. We live in strange times!

      • panarchy 2 hours ago

        Good. Just wanted to make sure you weren't being too hard on yourself.

jsheard a day ago

You think a Cortex-M0+ in a disposable vape is wasteful, wait until you see the ones with colour touchscreens and Bluetooth radios. It's probably only a matter of time before they start running Android on them.

  • malfist a day ago

    What's insane is how cheap all those components are. A quadcore processor with ram and memory, WiFi and Bluetooth for pennies at wholesale.

    The latest and fastest GPUs might be a marvel of technology, but so is the tech that let's us make and esp32 for almost nothing

    • balder1991 18 hours ago

      I guess at this point it’s safe to assume humanity won’t regress to a time before computers anymore.

    • ta12653421 13 hours ago

      yeah, in 1992 we ran Doom on a 386DX 20Mhz and 320x200 VGA mode :-D

      (and it was slooooow and ugly!)

  • marstall 9 hours ago

    how long til they have GPT-5 level LLMs?

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BruceEel 11 hours ago

This is quite amazing. Dumb question: is there a way to run it in QEMU?

  • BogdanTheGeek 11 hours ago

    Maybe, I'm not sure how you would connect a debugger to qemu, and you would have to emulate the ram and flash, but other than that is pretty standard arm cortex m0. The code is pretty generic too.

    • BruceEel 10 hours ago

      Makes sense, thank you. Congrats on the extremely cool project.

rpcope1 21 hours ago

So a question maybe someone can clue me in on here: while the specs on that MCU seem imminently reasonable to me (especially compared to some of the PIC12F and similar I've used in the past) the thing that feels odd is the high clock speed ARM core. Is it really that cheap and easy to drop an M0 core or ip block into an MCU? Why not more RAM and a simpler/slower core? The M0 feels grossly overkill.

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accrual 11 hours ago

This is really impressive. I laughed when I got 503 Unavailable on the hosted URL. I guess we're all hugging that little vape CPU a little too hard. :)

rusabd 5 hours ago

Very appropriate to host “Suck it, Jin-Yang!”

Dilettante_ a day ago

I respect the point about not wanting to send the manufacturer any business, but I would love to know the brand so I'd know which ones to rescue if given the chance.

  • efilife a day ago

    I am probably stupid so bear with me. I don't get the part about not naming brands if you are certain they won't ever sponsor you. I feel like it just hurts the value of the article with nothing gained

    • Dilettante_ 15 hours ago

      It's not about sponsorships and integrity, it's about preventing the pipeline "Person reads article -> Sees this brand of vape has micocontrollers -> Buys this brand of vape".

      (If I understood the author correctly, y'know, not to speak for them)

      • efilife 8 hours ago

        Ok, but what's bad about this?

markstos 13 hours ago

I found of these that had a built-in retro game console with screen. Like, the kind of little game that a small child would be interested in. So frustrating.

6r17 10 hours ago

Hei ; Preact would be deff appropriate in that scenario ; it's a clone of react that is meant to be small !

Very inspiring work btw !

metal696heart a day ago

It would be nice to pool ideeas for what they could be recycled into. Imagine the amount of automatic cat feeders the world could build with these.

  • madcow2011 8 hours ago

    I've actually been trying to look into something similar? I have a pile of old vapes from friends/family I want to re-purpose, but don't really know where to start.

koliber 8 hours ago

How does the device compare to the computer we used to put a man on the moon?

  • fragmede 7 hours ago

    Running at 24 Mhz, the vape is umpteen times faster but interestingly enough the AGC had 36 KiB of ROM while the vape only has 24 KiB. Umpteen is a technical term denoting that a straight comparison isn't possible, as the Cortex M0 does more in a single clock cycle than the AGC does but they're also different architectures and the programs running are different.

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