Comment by Eridrus

Comment by Eridrus 2 days ago

25 replies

This only works if your sales strategy is all about inbound sales, i.e. content marketing (like this article)/ads.

But if you're an enterprise b2b company and want to grow quickly rather than taking 8 years to go beyond 1 solopreneur like this guy you're going to want to do outbound sales.

It's also worth noting that this guys is mostly doing small deals. The literal largest price he has on his pricing page is 72k/yr, which isn't tiny, but his typical deal size is likely much smaller, so it makes total sense for him not to get on a call for $49/month, because that is not a scalable strategy.

But many enterprise b2b companies have a more complicated product than Keygen and charge orders of magnitude more than they do.

Which is not to say that he is wrong, it's just that this is the correct strategy for scaling a low ACV product, rather than a high ACV product. And a low ACV product has to have much broader demand.

themanmaran a day ago

We're primarily an enterprise b2b company, so definitely couldn't get away with the "no calls" culture. BUT the "why do calls happen" section is applicable to anyone really.

We need to hop on calls to close customers, but honestly we could probably cut 1/3 of those calls by following some of those suggestions.

i.e. better documentation, ready to go pricing proposals, pre-filled security questionnaires, etc.

mihaaly a day ago

"But many enterprise b2b companies have a more complicated product than Keygen and charge orders of magnitude more than they do."

And how a call will make it simpler? Or why a telephone call becomes part of the service provided for the additional (higher) price (instead of other alternatives)?

  • satvikpendem a day ago

    The more that people spend the more they want to talk to an actual human to make sure their product and psychological needs are taken care of, in terms of being comfortable with the sale mentally too.

    • ezekg a day ago

      I haven't found this to be true, and I've done some pretty large enterprise deals 100% over email.

      People usually want a call because they don't know something, not 'just because.'

      • satvikpendem a day ago

        Depends at what level the company is at, especially if they're non-technical. I've found that non-tech VPs and executives definitely want a call, they'd never approve an email-only deal.

        • ezekg a day ago

          Fair enough. I sell to modern B2B tech companies so am obviously biased towards that.

    • veggieroll 13 hours ago

      Maybe that's true for some people. But there's a lot of frustration being shown here and elsewhere that proves there is a demographic of people who really don't want this.

      Cars are similar I think. Sure maybe some people need help. But there's is huge demand for a one-click, no-negotiation car buying "experience" (or lack of experience rather).

      My conspiracy theory is that this has more to do with Salespeople and established sales channels (dealers) not being able to understand this both because their job depends on it and because they are naturally people-persons. So it feels intuitive to them and they have trouble understanding/accepting that many other are not.

cainxinth 2 days ago

It also only works if your product is quite good. I think we can assume a fairly normal distribution for the quality of products where the vast majority are neither very good or bad. An average company with average products will be more inclined to try aggressive sales and marketing tactics because they don't have a great product to help motivate sales.

  • Aromasin 17 hours ago

    I'd disagree - at the ends of the curve, there are a lot of products that are effectively identical, at which point it's a race to the bottom on price (often meaning a slow decline in features until things are "cost-optimised") unless they can bring another value-add to the table which is where salespeople come in. Some of the best companies with the best products have extensive sales teams because they don't race to the bottom on price - they outcompete on getting first to market of features that they only get to because they understand their customer pain points deeply and find out when the value add is.

    I work in the semiconductor industry. A new chip might be designed to run 500+ different protocols, if not more. Coincidentally I had a meeting with one of our senior fellow lead architects the other day, who said a good 60% of those protocols came from suggestions by the sales team. These were requests by customers with super niche requirements you couldn't even imagine, even if you had an army of postgraduate architects who spend all day reading papers (which would be prohibitively expensive). Sure, a chip designer might know to put the latest USB standard on it. They might not know about some obscure broadcast protocol used by only 4 or 5 companies but is the backbone for almost every Premier League football game you watch on TV.

    Good products are often only good because the sales team was out there trying their hardest to start a dialogue with a customer to win business, and in doing so listened to them and acted on that.

    • blakesmith 15 hours ago

      Love this anecdote. Having a really capable sales team that actually listens to customers unique needs, and feeds that back into a better product can be such a huge asset. Your sales team is usually a huge repository of unique customer pain and problems (opportunities!)

  • tacticus a day ago

    > I think we can assume a fairly normal distribution

    Sturgeons law applies more to enterprise software and products than any other space

    "ninety percent of everything is crap" is just insufficient in describing how bad the solutions in this space are.

encoderer 12 hours ago

That’s what makes this approach interesting to share. By now everybody is familiar with the enterprise software sales process and it’s nice to see how other companies are doing it.

manmal a day ago

People buy 100k cars online nowadays, why wouldn’t a great online presence also work?

  • elevatedastalt a day ago

    A 100K car is a commodity product with very limited customization.

    If you don't like the car, the manufacturer is not going to make a new one for you personally.

    A large SaaS customer is the opposite.

    • randerson a day ago

      You can go to the Porsche configurator website and design a personally customized globally unique $300K+ car, and it shows you not only the price but also what it'll look like. So there's obviously nothing _technical_ preventing them from letting people just order online, like with Tesla. Frustratingly, you have to still go into a dealer for them to click the submit order button, and they might add a markup for this privilege despite them adding negative value to the experience. It is just as frustrating as B2B sales. I'm sure some buyers want to speak to a human, but enthusiasts tend to know exactly what they want and they dread having to "build a relationship" and wonder if they got screwed because they didn't negotiate hard enough / aren't good-looking enough / etc.

      As for B2B sales, if AWS can show their pricing online, which has to be among the most complex pricing in existence - then so can every other SaaS company.

      • pythko a day ago

        I think you and the parent comment are talking about different scales. A large SaaS company deal could be $300k per month per customer, and the sales process for a company like that can involve changing the software to meet the needs of the customer. A very early lesson is that what the customer says they need is not always the same as what they actually need.

        One of the many reasons calls happen is that customers say "I need XYZ feature in order to do this deal," and the salesperson then needs to ask why they need XYZ feature, and what they want to accomplish, and maybe existing ABC feature actually meets their need, or maybe the company needs to develop XYZ feature to secure the contract. Once you get into a complex domain, that is not happening over email.

        The article contains good advice to many businesses out there, but it's worth considering the situations where it doesn't apply, too.

        • randerson 16 hours ago

          It certainly makes sense for a deep dive sales interaction if you're actually going to your product or engineering team to make changes.

          But if you're selling what's already on the truck, as most of these companies are, then there is no reason for the "call for pricing" for a standard enterprise plan. Pricing pages should have a separate column for custom/bespoke solutions, where it makes sense to have "schedule a call".

      • driverdan 7 hours ago

        Funny that you picked Porsche as an example. Their sales process is much like the terrible B2B experience. They won't even sell you many of their cars if you haven't purchased something cheaper from them in the past. Walk into a dealer, tell them you want to purchase a GT3 RS, and they'll laugh you out the door.

    • csomar a day ago

      > If you don't like the car, the manufacturer is not going to make a new one for you personally.

      Yes, they will. I recall watching a whole kind of documentary of it somewhere on Youtube. Essentially, luxury brands will fully customize cars for customers and have calls/meetings with them to discuss how the car will be customized. It costs $$$$$ but they'll do it.

      I think, too, that more important than income is the fact that these rich people should be driving their cars. It's a way to keep the brand positioned in that market.

      • elevatedastalt 10 hours ago

        So you agree that when companies want to truly give a customized experience to their customers, they would get on a call with them? I guess we are on the same page then.

  • JW_00000 a day ago

    But I guess 100k cars are bought are bought more in person than 10k cars. For most people, the more money you spend, the more you'd like to talk to a real human being.

    • manmal 21 hours ago

      That’s not the case actually, if you consider that 10k cars are mostly used ones. Those are usually test driven, and haggled over first. And often taken in to a dealership to check the internals.

  • [removed] a day ago
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cloverich a day ago

Mostly fair, but I disagree about the need for outbound for rapid growth, based on some recent experience. Good PMF and you'll be drowning in inbound. Still need a call and white glove for bigger deals though.