Comment by Zambyte

Comment by Zambyte 4 days ago

202 replies

> if you don't sell your games on Steam or in a way I can run them on Linux I am not buying or playing them.

So much this. People like to moan about "oh game XYZ doesn't run so it's not reasonable for gaming". More games run on GNU / Linux than any gaming console. There are simply too many games that do run to give a second thought about the ones that don't, and it's been that way for years.

zeta0134 4 days ago

The giant bugbear in this conversation is always multiplayer. That's because almost all of the big players in that space currently favor rootkits in the form of overly invasive anti-cheat, which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.

If you don't play PvP specifically, the rest of the library is significantly more open to you. Personally I have always favored single player experiences and indie games from smaller studios, and for the most part those run great.

  • godelski 4 days ago

    It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.

    So if you can go without those games or don't play MMOs that is rootkits then switch to force their hand.

    Besides, them installing a rootkit on your machine is not an acceptable practice anyways. It's a major security issue. Sometimes we need to make a stand. Everyone has a line, where's yours?

    • Macha 4 days ago

      MMOs are actually fine. WoW, FFXIV, RuneScape, all work great on Linux. They’re not really games that rely on hidden information, are not pvp first and need to simulate stuff on the server anyway, so can verify moves are valid there.

      It’s the competitive progression shooters and ranked esports games that go in for the restrictive anti-cheat

      • nhhvhy 4 days ago

        Even within competitive shooters there’s still plenty that run great on Linux. 90% of my time spent gaming is on Overwatch or CS2, and I’ve found that both ran significantly better on my Debian 13 installation than they ever did on Win11.

        • godelski 4 days ago

          And it's worth noting that CS2 is still the most played game on Steam. It has double the players of the second most played game, Dota 2, which also works on Linux. And that has double the player base of the number 3 game, Arc Raiders, which also works great on Linux.

          The idea that you'll be missing out is ill founded. Yes, there are some games that won't work. PUBG, Bongo Cat, Rust[0], and EA Sports FC 26 are the ones on the top 10 multiplayer list. But it's also not like you don't have plenty of massively popular games to choose from.

          I'll even say don't switch to Linux, just stop playing these abusive games. Honestly, if you're unwilling to change OSes but willing to do this then people that want to jump ship can. We all win from this behavior. Even you as it discourages Windows from shoving in more junk and discourages publishers like EA from shoving in massive security vulnerabilities like rootkits. I mean we've all seen how glitchy many AAA games are, you really think their other software isn't going to be just as unpolished and bug ridden?

          [0] Apparently works with Linux servers? https://www.protondb.com/app/252490

          P.S. If anyone wants to check for yourself:

            - Steam Multiplayer by rankings: https://steamdb.info/charts/?tagid=3859
            - Proton Support: https://www.protondb.com/
    • abustamam 4 days ago

      This is true in principle but most gamers are just gonna take the path of least resistance. If they can't play fortnite on Linux (I'm using an example, I don't know if it's actually unplayable on Linux) then they will use whatever OS lets them play.

      People have been saying "vote with your wallet" every time gaming companies do something anti consumer like day one dlc or buggy releases (don't pre-order!) or $90 games, but gaming companies continue to push the envelope on what gamers will pay for because gamers keep paying for it.

      It's a sad reality.

      • direwolf20 4 days ago

        Take a step back. Why do people want to play Fortnite so much and not anything else?

      • some_random 4 days ago

        Even this framing is silly, if you have a PC to game there are not enough pros to choose Linux. You are giving up the ability to play some popular games and increasing the amount of effort required to play another chunk of them in exchange for what? A snappier file browser? Fewer anti-consumer dark patterns? It's not about "path of least resistance" it just flat out isn't worth it.

    • ectospheno 4 days ago

      I switched to console gaming years ago. I can still play any major release while having whatever OS I want on my computers.

      • Gracana 4 days ago

        I did this and was happily Windows-less for quite a few years. I ended up building a PC with a big GPU and so I switched back to PC gaming with a Windows installation alongside Linux, but I still think the console route is a great option.

    • johnnyanmac 4 days ago

      >Sometimes we need to make a stand. Everyone has a line, where's yours?

      I just don't really play multiplayer to begin with. So I was never on the spectrum.

      But tens of millions are. They won't even be aware of what's happening. That's why this remains.

    • phr4ts 4 days ago

      >It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.

      Nope. Not Nadella. He'll kill windows in a heartbeat.

  • jsheard 4 days ago

    > which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.

    It's more that there's no sensible way they could do it even if they wanted to. Emulating the Windows kernel internals is well beyond the scope of what WINE is trying to do, and even if they did do it, there would be no way for the anticheat vendors to tell the difference between the AC module being sandboxed for compatibility versus sandboxed as a bypass technique. Trying to subvert the AC in any way is just begging to get banned, even if it's for beingn reasons.

  • RamRodification 4 days ago

    As a competitive old school arena FPS guy, I have also had a very hard time getting the same smoothness and low latency (input, output, whatever it is) on Linux. The games I play are very fast and twitchy, and milliseconds matter.

    There seems to be too many layers and variables to ever get to the bottom of it. Is it the distro itself? Is it a Wayland vs. X11 thing? Is it the driver? The Proton version? Some G-SYNC thing? Some specific tweak that games based on this game engine needs?

    • cobar 4 days ago

      I've had better luck since the switch to Wayland. I don't play many FPS games but mouse input & overall smoothness for strategy games has been great. Check your mouse settings, you might need to set a higher USB sample rate. Piper is a frontend for adjusting them.

    • bigyabai 4 days ago

      > Is it a Wayland vs. X11 thing?

      Yes, most likely. Without a compositor I get lots of stuttering on x11, whereas KDE and GNOME's wayland sessions are both buttery smooth out of the box.

      Might be my Nvidia GPU, but I've never gotten x11 to work flawlessly for gaming.

      • simoncion 4 days ago

        > Without a compositor I get lots of stuttering on x11... Might be my Nvidia GPU, but I've never gotten x11 to work flawlessly for gaming.

        Weird. I don't use KDE's compositor, and -AFAIK- WindowMaker doesn't have one. When in either KDE or in WindowMaker I don't have stuttering with either fullscreen, borderless "fullscreen", or windowed games... everything is as smooth as it is in Windows. Having said that, I do know that -when using KDE- some fullscreen games get jittery as all shit if a notification pops up and remain that way until the notification disappears. I expect that that performance problem would go away if I was using the compositor... but I don't want to spend the VRAM on it.

        I use AMD graphics cards, so it might be an Nvidia thing that you're seeing. It also might be a "Your Linux distro simply stopped shipping good xorg installs" thing. I'm running Gentoo Linux which continues to ship updated versions of xorg and supporting software. [0]

        [0] I've heard people running Debian and Debian-derived distros report X11 behavior that absolutely does not match what I've been seeing for years... so some percentage of the "X11 can't do $THING" when it really, really can must be coming from distros that ship either dramatically out-of-date or severely crippled xorg installs.

    • eertami 4 days ago

      I know what you mean, though I have a device running SteamOS though and it runs extremely smoothly, the latency is no different than my windows PC (on titles where it can achieve the same framerate).

      I'm sure that it must be possible to replicate whatever optimisations SteamOS has on other distros, but unfortunately I am not sure what those are exactly.

    • simoncion 4 days ago

      > The games I play are very fast and twitchy, and milliseconds matter.

      Out of curiosity, what games are those? I wonder if I also play a subset of them.

    • hparadiz 4 days ago

      You should only ever be using Wayland from now on.

  • aqme28 4 days ago

    > That's because almost all of the big players in that space

    To the OP's point-- there are soooo many games nowadays, that if you and your friend group can skip some of those "big players," there are still hundreds of multiplayer games to play.

  • simoncion 4 days ago

    > ...which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.

    I mean, several of the major anticheats can be configured to work just fine on Linux. [0] It's up to the game dev whether or not it's permitted. So, yeah, unless the game is one where its dev makes huge blog posts about how "advanced" its anti-cheat is (like Valorant or the very latest CoD/Battlefield games) it's quite likely that multiplayer games will work just fine on Linux.

    And if they don't, and the faulty game is a new purchase on Steam, then ask for a refund and tell them that the game doesn't work with your OS. Easy, peasy.

    [0] I have 100% solid, personal knowledge that Easy Anti Cheat can work on Linux. On Linux, I play THE FINALS, Elden Ring, and a couple of other EAC-"protected" games without any troubles. I have perhaps-unreliable memories that at least one of the games I play uses Denuvo, which is only sometimes used as anti-cheat but does use many of the same techniques as kernel-mode anticheat.

    • jsheard 4 days ago

      > I have 100% solid, personal knowledge that Easy Anti Cheat can work on Linux.

      That's no secret, but the catch is that the Linux version is much, much easier to bypass. That's why some developers choose not to enable it, or in the case of Apex Legends, enabled it but later backtracked and disabled it again.

      • Draiken 4 days ago

        > That's why some developers choose not to enable it

        That's an excuse. It's mostly incompetence or more often than not the company doesn't think it's worth the effort. With more Linux users, the balance will eventually shift from "fuck them" to "we have to figure out a way".

      • simoncion 4 days ago

        > ...but the catch is that the Linux version is much, much easier to bypass.

        Shrug. Rumor has it that the Windows version is already fairly trivial to bypass.

        • dleslie 4 days ago

          Oh, it absolutely is; if your product doesn't update its EAC bits regularly then it may as well not use EAC at all. Even still, there are known ways around it.

  • bikelang 4 days ago

    Even PVP is starting to “just work” via Proton. Arc Raiders runs just fine on Linux and is a strictly PvP game. Over time I think this will be less and less of a problem.

    • TulliusCicero 4 days ago

      Arc Raiders is a PvPvE game, like most extraction shooters.

      • Draiken 4 days ago

        Still has an anti-cheat, they just bothered to allow Linux support.

        Companies don't do this out of laziness/incompetence, but even some large anti-cheats work on Linux and some games simply choose to not enable it (cough, Tarkov, cough). Their problem, I'm no longer gonna play games that don't work on Linux.

        Funnily enough the best FPS game ever (Counter-Strike) runs absolutely fine on Linux. Thanks Valve!

        • int_19h 4 days ago

          As far as I know, all the anti-cheat options for Linux are not kernel-level, which means that they are drastically less effective at their intended purpose. That's why so many competitive multiplayer games choose to not enable it.

  • trinsic2 4 days ago

    Its not that they refuse to support the anti-cheat rootkits, its that its really difficult to emulate or abstract kernel level code. If you are using kernel level anti-cheat, you are just asking for trouble all-around.

  • estimator7292 4 days ago

    Vote with your wallet, as the saying goes. If you quit paying money for the privilege of installing a rootkit, maybe they'll stop selling rootkits.

    • johnnyanmac 4 days ago

      Lot of wallets are voting for AC, sadly. Sometimes the tyranny of the majority is a real thing.

  • jmusall 4 days ago

    BattlEye works on linux nowadays, so there definitely is progress in this direction!

  • logicchains 4 days ago

    The greatest PvP game, DOTA, works on Linux, and once you get hooked on that you'll never want to play another PvP game.

thewebguyd 4 days ago

> oh game XYZ doesn't run so it's not reasonable for gaming

People tend to generalize, but what they probably mean is "it's not reasonable for gaming for the games I play.

I haven't fully switched over yet because the games the combo of the hardware I have + the games I play regularly, still give me issues vs. Windows. Getting them to run isn't the problem, but I haven't been able to solve miscellaneous crashes, lag, lower frame rates, etc.

My next PC upgrade will probably be getting rid of my Nvidia 1660 super and getting something AMD for less headaches.

  • vladvasiliu 4 days ago

    > People tend to generalize, but what they probably mean is "it's not reasonable for gaming for the games I play.

    This. The corollary is also that people take the such quips way too literally.

    I, personally, don't play that many games, and those that I do play tend to run faster on Linux (with an AMD GPU, which I bought specifically to avoid nvidia headaches).

    But I still game on Windows. Why? Because I still have a Windows box, "because Linux is not reasonable for photo editing". I actually daily drive Linux, but I can't be assed to move from Lightroom and photoshop, so I still keep a windows pc under my desk. I just play games on it because it's much beefier than my 5 yo ryzen U laptop, and since I don't interact with that box all that much, I didn't feel like partitioning my smallish drive for no tangible benefit. My laptop is more than enough for all my other needs.

  • amelius 4 days ago

    Ok, if you want to be stubborn about it then leave Windows on a partition and only start it when you want to play that one game. Problem solved.

    In many ways, moving to Linux is like starting to live on your own. Your mommy might be a better cook than you, but is that a good enough reason to keep living in your parents' basement?

    • baka367 4 days ago

      Win partition will make you want to cry.

      Win insists on bootlocker/secure boot, meanwhile most of the Linux doesn’t boot with it or you have to go though hell and back to install unsigned drivers (nvidia, gentle-yall).

      I’d all say that Linux is like living in a car with 0 euros and saving up for a house. Simple user can scrape by, but mowing dev work life to Linux is much harder than to Mac. VPNs, inconsistent distro support for weird work stuff and such will make you spend days to weeks of unpaid overtime to get comfortable

      • int_19h 4 days ago

        Linux can handle BitLocker & Secure Boot just fine. The problem with dual booting in that configuration is rather that every time Linux updates the boot loader, Windows will freak out and stop booting until you enter the recovery key for BitLocker. This can be prevented by first booting into Windows to disable BitLocker until the next reboot and then installing the Linux updates, but in practice I find that I forget about it all the time with my dual-boot laptop (which spends most of its time booted into Linux).

      • godelski 4 days ago

        This is a solvable problem and there's even pacman hooks around to do it for you

        But also don't blame Linux. Even your comment says the problem is Microsoft. We need to be collectively mad at the right entity if we're going to get them to change. Otherwise they'll keep bullying people and they've found that they can bully people so much it gives them Stockholm Syndrome, where they feel they can't leave.

        https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware...

      • keyringlight 4 days ago

        For quite a while I've found that the much easier answer is to have a physical drive per OS and make sure it's the only drive connected during install, or at least one for anything that doesn't play entirely nicely with multi-boot. Obviously there's downsides to that, buying another drive or you might be using something like a laptop which is less friendly to extra drives, dis/reconnecting M.2 drives isn't as trivial as SATA either.

      • tapoxi 4 days ago

        Bazzite supports secure boot just fine, its actually enabled by default. I'm sure others do too.

    • dullcrisp 4 days ago

      I’ll be honest I’m really struggling with this analogy.

    • jama211 4 days ago

      Running two systems has cons of its own

      • Draiken 4 days ago

        Which are?

        I've had Windows in one disk and Linux in another for maybe a decade and use the boot selection to pick what I want. Never had a single issue.

        Although I haven't opened Windows in months, so I'll likely nuke it soon and give more space for my Linux.

  • cogman10 4 days ago

    Over the last year or so, nVidia support for the 3+ series of hardware has gotten pretty stable.

    With that said, I'm probably going to grab and AMD or Intel card once my 3060 becomes too much of a pain to continue using. It's a little ridiculous that the 5060 gives very little reason for my to update my 5 year old video card.

    • newsoftheday 4 days ago

      I only update my rig ever 8-10 years. Saves money though I tend to then play the older games, which is OK for me. I've had a 3080 for 3 years and it still feels like a new card.

  • jp191919 4 days ago

    FWIW, I've been gaming with a 1660 on Nobara OS for the past 3 months w/o issue.

  • bikelang 4 days ago

    FWIW my 4070 Ti Super has had zero headaches in Linux. It’s only older Nvidia cards I’ve had issues with. Seems like there was a major driver change starting with the RTX 20xx series.

    • volkercraig 4 days ago

      Up until last week I was running a 960 on mint and had absolutely no problems, nor did I even have to think about drivers. I also have a server running Tesla M10s and they're great too, little more fiddly getting the right driver, but that's moreso on the cards being weird.

      Post last week I put in an Arc B580 and I had some issues at the start, but that's more to do with the fact that my workstation has a Haswell Xeon v3... Otherwise it was just turning CSM off.

    • throwway120385 4 days ago

      Linux probably became first-class for them because a lot of ML workflows rely on NVidia in the cloud, and I don't think anyone really uses Windows for that.

      • robotnikman 4 days ago

        It's telling how Nvidia released an ARM driver for Linux, but has not for Windows.

  • baka367 4 days ago

    I find this mostly applies to the competitive games due to most standard anti cheat apps not working outside win32.

  • reactordev 4 days ago

    Again, all these games are available on console (mostly) so the excuse to not support Linux is conscious. Those ARE Linux machines. Essentially. (Yeah yeah, they have their own tool chain and rendering) but if they are using Vulkan, DX12, DX11, and a window - it can run on Linux.

    • thewebguyd 4 days ago

      Of course, and it's mostly DRM and/or anti-cheat. The studios want full control over the device running their IP, and they can't achieve that with desktop Linux, but they also don't want to leave the PC gaming market behind entirely to launch exclusively on consoles. Hence why the Windows versions of these games install rootkits on your PC, they aren't cooperating with the PC ecosystem, they are forcibly turning your computer into a locked-down console.

      • tonyhart7 4 days ago

        and for a good reason, you want an infested cheater to be more a problem than currently bad problem that is happening????

        giving a user freedom cause it to make multiplayer game to be more unbearable since its human nature to compete and come out of others ???? who would guess

      • yetihehe 4 days ago

        I hope they won't start providing their own tailored heavily locked encrypted operating system versions as a requirement to run their games.

    • krs_ 4 days ago

      Technically PS5 and I think Switch 2 is based on the BSD kernel probably because of the license. Xbox is not exactly Windows but it's using an NT kernel.

      • jsheard 4 days ago

        Playstation is FreeBSD, yeah, but the Switch runs a completely bespoke microkernel. Nintendo did borrow the BSD networking stack, which led some to infer from the license disclosure that it runs a BSD, but it's been extensively reverse engineered now and it doesn't even vaguely resemble Unix.

  • newsoftheday 4 days ago

    I've gamed since 1979 and have used nVidia on Linux since the early 2000's...without issue.

    • krs_ 4 days ago

      There have certainly been issues (I've been on Linux with mostly nvidia GPUs since 2004) but it's almost always been caused by the module being outside the kernel, and a kernel update breaking compatibility sometimes, understandably. This has always been fixed quickly on nvidias end though. And early Wayland issues and the current DX12 -> Vulkan translation performance issues in more recent times.

      But overall I've also had a mostly stable experience during that time. New hardware is supported mostly at release. Not always supporting all the latest features straight away mind you, but still. Meanwhile I seem to hear about issues with support for Intel and AMD cards at release frequently in comparison.

  • ErroneousBosh 4 days ago

    > My next PC upgrade will probably be getting rid of my Nvidia 1660 super and getting something AMD for less headaches.

    Then you'll have AMD headaches. NVidia is the only accelerated graphics card fully supported on Linux.

    You only get acceleration in AMD if you use their binary-only drivers and they only support cards for about a year.

    • thewebguyd 4 days ago

      AMD drivers are now open and in the mainline kernel. They dropped their proprietary driver and now use the upstream MESA stack. Nvidia also still suffers from a 20-30% performance drop on DX12 games on Linux, while AMD does not.

      It used to be the reverse as you stated, but that hasn't been true since about 2015.

      • ErroneousBosh 4 days ago

        Okay, but AMD isn't accelerated. It's godawful slow for anything to do with video, and really you just need an NVidia card if you're doing anything to do with video editing or motion graphics.

        The built-in amdgpu drivers are awful, constantly crashy and with very poor hardware support of anything more than a couple of years old.

      • everdrive 4 days ago

        NVIDIA is currently improving as well! Of course AMD is still the safer bet, but I think things look bright for NVIDIA in the future. The kernel driver was open sourced, and they are currently working on the DX12 performance issues.

nightski 4 days ago

I run both operating systems. But I have to say it either runs the game you want to play or it doesn't. This is especially true if you play games with friends.

  • neogodless 4 days ago

    > But I have to say it either runs the game you want to play or it doesn't

    Can you elaborate on this?

    For example, it was convoluted getting StarCraft 2 to run. Then it did eventually work, though it felt ever so slightly laggy.

    Anno 1800 ran though it occasionally slowed way down, occasionally crashed, and multiplayer never worked.

    Hogwart's Legacy ran but crashed, and ran massively slower / lower quality settings than on the same hardware but in Windows.

    All of those were not binary "runs / doesn't".

    • nightski 4 days ago

      That's not what I am saying, sorry if it was confusing. The parent was implying that if it doesn't run a game just pick a different game. But I was pointing out that isn't always an option, and some times you just want to play a specific game.

      • neogodless 4 days ago

        Gotcha - yeah I'm on the same page.

        I used Linux Mint for 2 full months, 99% of my personal computing. Really like it. BUT... not all games my gaming group plays work on it, and social gaming is very important to me.

        That doesn't mean I'm sour on Linux PC gaming. I think it's great, and will work for a lot of people, and it's so close for me. And I might switch, since my gaming tastes are shifting.

        • nightski 2 hours ago

          I agree, I love the Steam Deck and Linux a lot including gaming. I'll also be a day one purchaser of the steam box if I am able.

      • ozim 4 days ago

        I do understand the premise but … people want to play the games they want to play.

        For example I am a good customer for streaming services because I don’t care about specific titles - I will watch a series or a movie because it is available. I will most likely not go through a hassle to watch some specific show if it is not on streaming I already have.

        Gaming doesn’t really work like that for me. I usually want to play specific titles - not just some game.

        But I fully understand someone has the same approach to games as I have for movies/series.

    • Fabricio20 4 days ago

      I'd quote your own example from Anno -> "multiplayer never worked". Thats the "doesn't run" part. I always play Anno 1800 with friends. It has been my experience with linux gaming for a while - anything that involves multiplayer usually doesn't work, either because its just broken (less likely) or because its specifically stopped by the developer (anticheat, etc..). Reality is though, that most mainstream games (as in, biggest player counts and as such, the games most people are playing) do not support linux. If my Valorant or League of Legends or Counter Strike or Rust or ARC Raiders or Marvel Rivals don't allow me to play on linux then the state still is "linux can't really run games yet".

      How do you fix this? I dont know - most of these are the developers refusing support because of anticheat or just support overload, but it's insane to suggest that linux works for gaming when the most played games in the world straight up do not work. I'd love if linux was more viable though, can't wait to ditch the slowness from windows.

    • cevn 4 days ago

      It's like this. You eventually got Starcraft2 to work. That means Linux can run Starcraft2, it's in the "Runs" category. Games like League of Legends, which have kernel level anti cheat, are in the "Won't Run" category.

      • wafflemaker 4 days ago

        But you don't want to sacrifice comfort or other things. The game should work just right on Linux.

        I have an Nvidia card and use mostly Ubuntu (mate), also for gaming. It's even a problem now, because I would benefit from a hard divide between the gaming and working\studying system (I have a gaming user in backlog). On Linux it's mostly KSP, Factorio, but sometimes DeepRockGalactic, Valheim, Euro Truck Sim or Warhammer: Total War1\2\3. These games work flawlessly or with <10%fps hit.

        There are games that kind of work - Ancestors: Humankind Odyssey, Cyberpunk, Hunt: Showdown. But you lose comfort and I'd rather just play them on Windows, than suffer decreased functionality on Linux. I know that some of it (definitely Cyberpunk) is only because of NVIDIA.

        When buying games I usually don't buy Windows only games unless there is a very good reason. And I quit League of Legends and WRC rally because of anti cheat scam. I feel scammed after putting lot of money in a game and suddenly losing the ability to play it.

      • oreally 4 days ago

        This shifting of goalposts just to cater to linux just explains it all.

        Comeon. If a customer bought a game that says it runs on linux, they should be able to play it on linux well, not just launch it and quit within 5 mins.

        I get you have the ideology up in your head, but don't lie and embellish linux to this degree. The attitude just turns people off.

    • godelski 4 days ago

      Fwiw I've been playing Hogwarts Legacy lately, though single player. Only problem I ever face is sometimes in a cave if I'm facing a certain direction I'll get blinding light as if I have ray tracing enabled and it's badly implemented. Though considering it's a AAA game and other things I've seen, I don't think that's exactly a Linux problem. Much like Starfield...

    • jandrese 4 days ago

      I ran Starcraft 2 through Lutrus and it was a piece of cake. No lag that I could discern. There was a little mini launcher and everything. The multiplayer also worked just fine, although the matchmaking system seemed to think I was an expert level player for some reason and kept matching me with dudes who were way better at the game than I was.

      • neogodless 4 days ago

        To me, this is the one thorn in Linux (and the Linux online community) that gives me pause.

        For the people that it just works for, well it just works for.

        For anyone else, apparently they are the problem? Not Linux?

        Well sorry no. I did get StarCraft 2 working with Lutris... once. Then I couldn't get it to start again. Eventually I switched to running Battle.Net from Steam and for some reason that did work. But it wasn't a "just works" or "piece of cake." It was a puzzle.

    • Macha 4 days ago

      Not saying you didn’t experience this, but I’ve definitely run StarCraft 2 in the past, and I play Anno 1800 regularly fine (thanks to the mods I’ve been playing it’s even got 50% more sessions than the base game)

      • neogodless 4 days ago

        Did multiplayer LAN work in Anno 1800 for you out of the box, or did you make adjustments? I couldn't figure out how to get it to work.

        StarCraft 2 worked, oddly enough, run from Steam as an external program. (Lots of search results tried to get me to use Lutris/bottles, but I couldn't get it to work consistently under Lutris.)

PunchyHamster 4 days ago

They don't mean all games thru all times, they mean "the latest $70 release" that still can have problem if it is multiplayer DRM/anticheat ridden one.

I haven't booted windows in months but there is definitely some caveats for gamers

  • RunSet 4 days ago

    On the other hand, those who find contemporary game development trends distasteful might find much to like about the fruits of the Debian Games Team's work on game-data-packager.

    https://game-data-packager.debian.net/available.html

    The games on that list have native ports that can be integrated into the Debian environment just by installing packages, and the game data packages can be automatically generated from each game's official install media.

  • int_19h 4 days ago

    It doesn't have to be "the latest $70 release", there are plenty of games that are many years old now that still don't work because of KAC.

  • anon22981 4 days ago

    This. I’d move to Linux in a heartbeat if certain anticheats for certain competetive games had supports for it. (i.e. faceit anticheat)

    • Thev00d00 4 days ago

      Play premier instead! I suck and have hugh trust so I never see any cheaters.

    • redeeman 4 days ago

      how do you actually accept having a rootkit installed on your system?

      • antiframe 4 days ago

        Presumably, yes, if they're playing it on a different OS.

        • redeeman 3 days ago

          I just dont understand how anyone can go "yeah okay lets install these guys rootkit complete with keylogger and who knows what, totally legit!", and for what? to play a game

    • tonyhart7 4 days ago

      its easier for me to just have 2 different system for work and entertainment honestly

      • shimman 4 days ago

        Even easier is to just give up on competitive games, at a certain point it becomes another job and you know... not fun?

        I think Starcraft 2 broke me from this habit, once you're studying various metas rather than having fun you need to take a step back and reevaluate.

ukuina 4 days ago

Do the top sellers from the past year work on Linux?

I've been meaning to set up Bazzite on an older desktop.

  • mitkebes 4 days ago

    Basically all games work, except some multiplayer games with kernel anticheat. You can look up the status of games here:

    https://www.protondb.com/

    And specifically the state of multiplayer games with anticheat here (which is a much less favorable % of working games):

    https://areweanticheatyet.com/

    I personally wouldn't install any kernel anticheat on a computer that I intend to use for anything important, so I would personally refuse to install the incompatible games even if I was using windows.

    • jsheard 4 days ago

      Take ProtonDB with a grain of salt, Apex Legends still has a Silver rating ("Runs with minor issues") despite being 100% unplayable on Linux for over a year now.

    • observationist 4 days ago

      "Just trust us, bro! Our security is better than the banks, governments, and major services and we would never let anyone exploit or abuse the gaping hole we're deliberately installing in your security profile! It's just our perfectly secure rootkit that won't ever be used for anything bad!"

      It's so weird to me that people just allow this, or even defend it. Game companies should be legally obligated to scale human moderation and curation of multiplayer games, and if you're paying for service that gets moderated and curated, there should be some legal expectation of process - a requirement that the service provider lay out a specific "due process" framework, even if it ends up mediated, that gives a customer legal recourse. Instead, they try to automate everything, which has notoriously indiscriminate collateral damage with no recourse.

      If you pour significant chunk of your private time and money into a game, you should be entitled to not arbitrarily lose an account or gameplay progress because some poorly configured naive Bayes classifier decided you did something wrong, without corresponding evidence or recourse to undo bad bans.

      For some reason companies are entitled to infinitely expand their reach without concurrently expanding their responsibilities in providing service to individuals. Must be nice.

  • Macha 4 days ago

    From Steam’s 2025 top X charts (https://store.steampowered.com/charts/bestofyear/2025?tab=3)

    11/12 top selling new releases (the exception is battlefield 6, because the anticheat blocks Linux)

    9/12 top selling (COD, BF6 and Apex block Linux)

    11/12 most played (Apex blocks Linux)

    So if you’re into competitive ranked games (especially fps), you might face problems due to anti cheat blocks, but practically everything else works

techpression 4 days ago

Most of the games I play would work fine, but it’s the damn anti cheat and multiplayer games that forces Windows down my throat, and I’m not happy about it. I only use my gaming rig for gaming so I have no other requirements, which kind of makes it even worse.

  • Zambyte 4 days ago

    I play multiplayer games with anti cheat all the time. The only ones that don't run are straight up malware.

    • techpression 4 days ago

      I’m not disagreeing, it’s just how certain very popular games operate nowadays. I would never play them on a computer I used for anything but gaming.

shevy-java 4 days ago

Well I used to game a lot when I was younger.

Initially I hated that Linux was so niche in 2005 or so.

Meanwhile now, I don't have time for games anyway. I still think gaming should be better on Linux, but I don't miss Windows anymore either (though I have it as secondary operating system on another computer; I just don't really care about it, it could die tomorrow and I would not miss it one iota).

johnnyanmac 4 days ago

Games are more and more consolidating towards services, so it really only takes one game for the lions share of gamers. You can bet GTA V is a big draw away from Linux and that GTA VI will eventually be the same when it hits PC.

As for me, I'm still stuck for professional reasons. I do intend to develop natively on Linux when time comes to make my own game.

pksebben 4 days ago

The only pain point I've found is VR. I've bounced off trying to get it working multiple times with the best results getting about 10% functional (video working on one or two games, input broken on all).

That said, I haven't tried getting the same kit working on windows so I can't say if it's any better.

  • jsheard 4 days ago

    VR is rough at the moment, but one would hope that Valve is prepping an overhaul for SteamVR on Linux since they're launching a standalone VR headset which runs Linux soon.

    • Thegn 4 days ago

      I suspect that this might not ship given the recent dramatic change in memory prices.

  • giancarlostoro 4 days ago

    I ran into the issue where I didn't know that you can tell Steam to always prefer NATIVE LINUX programs over everything over Proton. This was causing a ton of issues with VR, I havent gone back to try it yet though, havent found the time.

  • psyonity 4 days ago

    It was very broken for a long time. Since fairly recently you have WiVRn (specifically wivrn-dashboard on Arch) for Oculus (more supported though) and I would daresay it works better then SteamVR used to do for me on Windows

  • 0x1ch 4 days ago

    Hardware for flight sim games is also in a similar boat. It's hard to configure most of the newer hardware, but a lot of the old low quality joysticks work alright out of the box.

  • rounce 4 days ago

    I have both a Reverb G2 and a Pimax both working great via Monado.

    • mortos 4 days ago

      That's great to hear as a fellow Reverb G2 user. Starting with Windows 11 24h2 they dropped all Windows MR support. It looks like there's also a driver called "Oasis" now which restores functionality on Windows.

  • sandworm101 4 days ago

    I have owned the index for a few years, running it on ubuntu/mint. It is a pain. But VR is a pain generally. I go months without using the thing. Then when i do use it some bit of software has been updated and i inevitably have to spend an hour getting it to work correctly again. Honestly, VR on linux feels like using windows again.

    VR is bad because nobody cares much about it. The hardware is clunky, the market tiny, and costs great. As the hardware improves it will get more attention from the FOSS community and so too will the overall experiance.

  • Akronymus 4 days ago

    or DRM for old games that check stuff like the cd being present

greener_grass 4 days ago

Does a game "run on Linux" when it has 100% feature parity? 90%? 80%? What are you willing to cut? Some performance? A few graphical effects? Multiplayer?

When you look at the details, Linux gaming is not as good as it might seem.

But I'm still gaming on Linux!

  • seanw444 4 days ago

    What you sacrifice in feature parity, you gain in user freedom and principle. To me, that is a worthwhile tradeoff. Especially since it's really not that much different at this point. You're not sacrificing much in most cases now. It's really quite remarkable.

    • jama211 2 days ago

      Freedom to not play the games your friends are playing, without you.

  • Zambyte 4 days ago

    I can't remember the last time a game did anything other than run (this is with only trying games that have been documented to work). I think the worst I've had is audio not working in cut scenes in some game, but I don't remember what game it was.

    • greener_grass 3 days ago

      Age of Empires II is very popular but doesn't have multiplayer support on Linux.

mvdtnz 4 days ago

Many of us play with friends and don't dictate every game in the rotation. My time with my friends is more important to me than operating system purity.

  • jama211 2 days ago

    Well said. People like to conveniently ignore the realities and real reasons people do things when trying to push an ideology.

cesarb 4 days ago

> More games run on GNU / Linux than any gaming console.

Not for long. The Steam Machine aka "GabeCube" is also a gaming console, and will run all these games.

some_random 4 days ago

You and most of the other people in this thread clearly do not understand what's going on here. I and everyone else you're griping about do not give a shit about Slop Spoogers 7 from 1998 running great on Linux, we care about the games that we play with our friends being playable.

https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=playerCount

This is what matters, on Windows every single one of these is Native. Switching to Linux will be painful at best until every single one is at least Gold if not Platinum or Native.

jama211 4 days ago

There it is, the classic “just change what you enjoy then!!”. Linux will take off when the community stops trying to force new users to conform to the Linux way of life and instead respect that other people have other needs and wants that are valid, and not a moment before.

  • krs_ 4 days ago

    While I agree it's unreasonable, it's also kind of a chicken and an egg thing. These things won't change until Linux becomes big enough to ignore. I'm not sure what the solution is though, as I don't think it's realistic to make people give up what they enjoy to get there. That's not gonna happen. But Valve has at least made a dent with the Steamdeck and Proton in general, and maybe more with the upcoming Steam Machine. Devs actively target the Steamdeck nowadays for games where it makes sense, so it is taken into consideration at a whole new level compared to years past.

    • jama211 3 days ago

      Getting the community to respect that people have those needs would go a long way to stopping people from feeling alienated, even if the solutions aren’t there yet.

  • johnnyanmac 4 days ago

    Not much else to do. You either convert people, convert the companies to support Linux, or convert the government into cracking down on whatever makes it difficult for Linux to be supported. The latter is highly unlikely, and the 2nd only cares if people shift their habits.

    So there's only one channel left.

    • jama211 3 days ago

      I mean, the community could be less hostile to newcomers, and some of the bigger distorts could focus more on the user experience of inexperienced users. Those things can be done without any of those.

      • johnnyanmac 3 days ago

        How so? My impression is that Ubuntu is the biggest distro and it's philosophy is pretty much trying to replicate the Mac experience. I don't think the base UX can get easier to use at that rate.

        Things that don't work out of the box tend to be proprietary stuff, like GPU drivers. That falls back to converting companies.

        • jama211 2 days ago

          Ubuntu has done a decent job for normal installs but take it from me, if you want to dual boot it, it still doesn’t make it easy. It’s too easy to mess up your whole system if you don’t know what you’re doing, not to mention bootloaders are all still stuck in the 90’s, and are even worse to configure nicely than they are to use.

          Dual booting is one of the best ways to introduce someone to Linux in theory as they’ll feel safe trying that without having to delete their whole old system… except it’s also the scariest and most difficult way to install it and no installer makes it easy. It’s a real foot gun.