adamgordonbell 20 hours ago

Matt is amazing. After checking out his compiler optimizations, maybe check out the recent interview I did with him.

    What I’ve come to believe is this: you should work at a level of abstraction you’re comfortable with, but you should also understand the layer beneath it.

    If you’re a C programmer, you should have some idea of how the C runtime works, and how it interacts with the operating system. You don’t need every detail, but you need enough to know what’s going on when something breaks. Because one day printf won’t work, and if the layer below is a total mystery, you won’t even know where to start looking.

    So: know one layer well, have working knowledge of the layer under it, and, most importantly, be aware of the shape of the layer below that.
https://corecursive.com/godbolt-rule-matt-godbolt/

Also this article in acmqueue by Matt is not new at all, but super great introduction to these types of optimizations.

https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3372264

  • Insanity 14 hours ago

    The “understand one layer below where you work” is something my professors at uni told us 10+ years ago. Not sure where that originated from, but I really think that benefited me in my career. I.e understanding the JVM when dealing with Java helped optimize code in a relatively heavyweight medical software package.

    And also, it’s just fun to understand the lower layers.

  • mattgodbolt 10 hours ago

    Awww thanks again Adam :blush:

    • rramadass 9 hours ago

      My standard question to all Experts ;-)

      What are some articles/books/videos that you would recommend to go from beginner-to-expert in your domain ?

bspammer a day ago

I really appreciate that despite being an obvious domain expert, he’s starting with the simple stuff and not jumping straight into crazy obscure parts of the x86 instruction set

adev_ a day ago

Matt Godbolt is an absolute gem for the C & C++ community.

Many thanks to him for that.

Between that and compiler explorer, it is fair to say he made the world a better place for many of us, developers.

  • cyberax 17 hours ago

    Wait?!? Godbolt is actually a real person!?!?

    • mattgodbolt 10 hours ago

      I _think_ so, but this could all be some kind of simulation, I guess? :)

calibas a day ago

Advent of Computer Science Advent Calendars, Day 2

alberth a day ago

After 25-years of software development, I still wonder whether I’m using the best possible compiler flags.

  • cogman10 a day ago

    What I've learned is that the fewer flags is the best path for any long lived project.

    -O2 is basically all you usually need. As you update your compiler, it'll end up tweaking exactly what that general optimization does based on what they know today.

    Because that's the thing about these flags, you'll generally set them once at the beginning of a project. Compiler authors will reevaluate them way more than you will.

    Also, a trap I've observed is setting flags based on bad benchmarks. This applies more to the JVM than a C++ compiler, but never the less, a system's current state is somewhat random. 1->2% fluctuations in performance for even the same app is normal. A lot of people won't realize that and ultimately add flags based on those fluctuations.

    But further, how code is currently layed out can affect performance. You may see a speed boost not because you tweaked the loop unrolling variable, but rather your tweak may have relocated a hot path to be slightly more cache friendly. A change in the code structure can eliminate that benefit.

    • tmtvl 20 hours ago

      I'd say -O2 -march=native -mtune=native is good enough, you get (some) AVX without the O3 weirdness.

      • pedrocr 20 hours ago

        That's great if you're compiling for use on the same machine or those exactly like it. If you're compiling binaries for wider distribution it will generate code that some machines can't run and won't take advantage of features in others.

        To be able to support multiple arch levels in the same binary I think you still need to do manual work of annotating specific functions where several versions should be generated and dispatched at runtime.

    • alberth 21 hours ago

      Doesn't -O2 still exclude any CPU features from the past ~15 years (like AVX).

      If you know the architecture and oldest CPU model, we're better served with added a bunch more flags, no?

      I wish I could compile my server code to target CPU released on/after a particular date like:

        -O2 -cpu-newer-than=2019
      • cogman10 20 hours ago

        It's not an -O2 thing. Rather it's a -march thing.

        -O2 in gcc has vectorization flags set which will use avx if the target CPU supports it. It is less aggressive on vectorization than -O3.

      • singron 19 hours ago

        You can use x86_64-v2 or x86_64-v3. Dates are tricky since cpu features aren't included on all SKUs from all manufacturers on a certain date.

      • SubjectToChange 21 hours ago

        A CPU produced after a certain date is not guaranteed to have the every ISA extension, e.g. SVE for Arm chips. Hence things like the microarchitecure levels for x86-64.

    • vlovich123 19 hours ago

      You should at a minimum add flags to enable dead object collection (-fdata-sections and -ffunction-sections for compilation and -Wl,--gc-sections for the linker).

    • 201984 a day ago

      What's your reason for -O2 over -O3?

      • cogman10 a day ago

        Historically, -O3 has been a bit less stable (producing incorrect code) and more experimental (doesn't always make things faster).

        Flags from -O3 often flow down into -O2 as they are proven generally beneficial.

        That said, I don't think -O3 has the problems it once did.

      • o11c 19 hours ago

        Compiler speed matters. I will confess to not as much practical knowledge of -O3, but -O2 is usually reasonable fast to compile.

        For cases where -O2 is too slow to compile, dropping a single nasty TU down to -O1 is often beneficial. -O0 is usually not useful - while faster for tiny TUs, -O1 is still pretty fast for them, and for anything larger, the increased binary size bloat of -O0 is likely to kill your link time compared to -O1's slimness.

        Also debuggability matters. GCC's `-O2` is quite debuggable once you learn how to work past the possibility of hitting an <optimized out> (going up a frame or dereferencing a casted register is often all you need); this is unlike Clang, which every time I check still gives up entirely.

        The real argument is -O1 vs -O2 (since -O1 is a major improvement over -O0 and -O3 is a negligible improvement over -O2) ... I suppose originally I defaulted to -O2 because that's what's generally used by distributions, which compile rarely but run the code often. This differs from development ... but does mean you're staying on the best-tested path (hitting an ICE is pretty common as it is); also, defaulting to -O2 means you know when one of your TUs hits the nasty slowness.

        While mostly obsolete now, I have also heard of cases where 32-bit x86 inline asm has difficulty fulfilling constraints under register pressure at low optimization levels.

      • wavemode a day ago

        You have to profile for your specific use case. Some programs run slower under O3 because it inlines/unrolls more aggressively, increasing code size (which can be cache-unfriendly).

        • grogers a day ago

          Yeah, -O3 generally performs well in small benchmarks because of aggressive loop unrolling and inlining. But in large programs that face icache pressure, it can end up being slower. Sometimes -Os is even better for the same reason, but -O2 is usually a better default.

      • bluGill a day ago

        Most people use -O2 and so if you use -O3 you risk some bug in the optimizer that nobody else noticed yet. -O2 is less likely to have problems.

        In my experience a team of 200 developers will see 1 compiler bug affect them every 10 years. This isn't scientific, but it is a good rule of thumb and may put the above in perspective.

      • nickelpro 21 hours ago

        People keep saying "O3 has bugs," but that's not true. At least no more bugs than O2. It did and does more aggressively expose UB code, but that isn't why people avoid O3.

        You generally avoid O3 because it's slower. Slower to compile, and slower to run. Aggressively unrolling loops and larger inlining windows bloat code size to the degree it impacts icache.

        The optimization levels aren't "how fast do you want to code to go", they're "how aggressive do you want the optimizer to be." The most aggressive optimizations are largely unproven and left in O3 until they are generally useful, at which point they move to O2.

  • johnthescott 9 hours ago

    40 years latter i still have nightmares of long sessions debuging lattice c.

ketanmaheshwari a day ago

I am personally interested in the code amalgamation technique that SQLite uses[0]. It seems like a free 5-10% performance improvement as is claimed by SQLite folks. Be nice if he addresses it some in one of the sessions.

[0] https://sqlite.org/amalgamation.html

  • nickelpro a day ago

    Unity builds have been largely supplanted by LTO. They still have uses for build time improvements in one-off builds, as LTO on a non-incremental build is usually slower than the equivalent unity build.

    • Sponge5 21 hours ago

      At my company, we have not seen any performance benefits from LTO on a GCC cross-compiled Qt application.

      GCC version: 11.3 target: Cortex-A9 Qt version: 5.15

      I think we tested single core and quad core, also possibly a newer GCC version, but I'm not sure. Just wanted to add my two cents.

      • o11c 19 hours ago

        I would expect a little benefit from devirt (but maybe in-TU optimizations are getting that already?), but if a program is pessimized enough, LTO's improvements won't be measurable.

        And programs full of pointer-chasing are quite pessimized; highly-OO code is a common example, which includes almost all GUIs, even in C++.

      • gpderetta 19 hours ago

        Do you link against a version of the Qt library that provides IR objects?

        In any case even with whole program optimization, O would expect that effectively devirtualizing an heavily object oriented application to be very hard.

    • euroderf 17 hours ago

      For those of you playing at home, LTO is link-time optimization.

atgreen 20 hours ago

I'm looking forward to the remaining posts. The first thing I did this AM was teach SBCL how to optimize `(+ base (* index scale))` and `(+ base (ash index n))` patterns into single LEA instructions based on the day 2 learnings.

bkallus 21 hours ago

I hope he ends up covering integer division by constants. The chapter on this in Hacker's Delight is really good but a little dense for casual readers.

badmonster 18 hours ago

Advent of Code for compiler nerds. Love this format - daily bite-sized optimization lessons build intuition far better than dense textbooks. Understanding what compilers do and why they do it makes you a better programmer in any language.

alfanick a day ago

Is there a PDF somewhere? I'm not really able to follow YT videos.

filosofo_rancio a day ago

Thanks for sharing, I've always found optimizing a really interesting field, I will keep a close eye!

ktallett a day ago

This is really cool. Congrats on the quality of the work!

NooneAtAll3 a day ago

I don't understand

where is the problem to be solved?

  • eapriv a day ago

    The problem is “to add two numbers”. The meta-problem is “to learn how computers work”.

    • azundo 21 hours ago

      I think they're expecting a daily problem set like Advent of Code. This is not a set of problems to solve, it's a series with one release per day in December, similar to an Advent calendar.