urda 2 days ago

You bypass it by installing Firefox.

  • qustrolabe 2 days ago

    Firefox is awful. Both as a browser itself and as a base for other browsers. Such a shame that Zen didn't use Chromium :(

    • bluehatbrit 2 days ago

      Your comment is pretty meaningless without more specifics.

      I switched to Firefox again back in 2017, I have 0 issues with it. If anything it's faster and less resources hungry than chrome in my usage. The extension ecosystem is now arguably better with MV3 being rolled out to chrome.

      Probably the only annoying thing was learning where the buttons are in the devtools. They're all still there, just laid out differently. It took about a week to get to grips with that.

      What exactly makes you say it's an awful browser?

    • srcoder a day ago

      I use Zen everyday and a love it! I am glad they chose Firefox as a base, otherwise I would have skipped it. Firefox is stable, I open it when I boot my PC which runs for weeks and never think anything about it. On topic of ad blocking, I think that there are more ways to anoy users using ad blockers today despite of which browser someone uses, with ad block detection and blocking access. If your browser is build by a ad company, expect these changes. For this reason I won't use these browsers

    • dangraper2 2 days ago

      Weird, Firefox blows Chrome out of the water. What do you smoke?

      • lucb1e 2 days ago

        The smoke on the water!

        More seriously, I'm a Firefox user since ~2006 but I'm about equally surprised by the statement that Firefox should blow Chrome/ium out of the water as that Firefox supposedly sucks. They're both browsers. I think Chromium is a bit faster in page rendering, whereas Firefox is more open, privacy-friendly, and customizable. Similar to how I wish consumers would not choose an anti-consumer organization (anyone who values a free market and general computation1 should not choose iOS), I think nobody should choose Chrome but, still, I can understand if someone does choose it because they've gotten used to how it works and they're not willing to change. It's about equal in practical functionality that 95% of people use, wouldn't you say? Or in what way is Firefox blowing Chrome out of the water?

        ¹ https://www.thekurzweillibrary.com/the-coming-war-on-general...

RS-232 a day ago

I really wish Apple revived Safari for Windows.

In my opinion, it's the only browser that nicely balances performance, privacy, and security.

  • cbolton a day ago

    Doesn't Safari have basically the same limitations as Chrome with Manifest v3?

  • throw123xz 20 hours ago

    Safari isn't the solution in this case as they were actually the first ones to heavily restrict adblocking. Manifest v3 is inspired by what they did.

    • McAlpine5892 11 hours ago

      Safari does have heavy restrictions on extensions but I still rarely see ads with 1Blocker (Safari extension) and NextDNS. So rarely it feels like never.

      It’s also opened up somewhat in recent years. While I personally stick with Safari’s Content Blocking feature for performance reasons, 1Blocker and others do have a JavaScript-based option these days.

      • RS-232 4 hours ago

        I've had similarly good experiences with AdGuard and Wipr and prefer the latter for the UX.

kldg a day ago

Just for anyone here switching: Don't get firefox; get firefox developer edition. It's firefox but you don't need to pay Mozilla $20 and go through verification to local-load browser extensions you write for yourself. (you can do this on non-DE firefox but you have to reload extensions every time you restart browser)

I've been off Chrome for a while after using it for about a decade. Firefox is nice to have around, but ngl, it's behind on standards and some of its implementations are wack. Its performance on video is poor, and its memory management relatively awful, especially if you're the kind of person who leaves your computer on for months at a time; be prepared to open a new tab and copy-paste any "HUD" tab URLs you leave open (e.g. CNBC for the top ticker). I feel like the kind of person who buys an Intel GPU, and I have some thoughts about Nvidia for pushing me here.

  • paulryanrogers 17 hours ago

    Does DE really persist local add-ons? Last time I tried, it still unloaded them on browser restarts.

loloquwowndueo 2 days ago

Luckily I only need to use chrome on my work laptop, I use Firefox everywhere else. Still sad to see uBlock origin stop working which was useful to keep a cleaner experience when browsing the web for work reasons (research, documentation, etc).

daft_pink 2 days ago

So what’s the conclusion? Can we use a different Chrome based browser and avoid MV3? What’s the decision for privacy after this has happened?

  • perching_aix 2 days ago

    This blogpost covers a workaround they discovered that would have let MV3 extensions access important functionality that was not normally available, only in MV2.

    This workaround was fixed the same year in 2023 and yielded a $0 payout, on the basis that Google did not consider it a security vulnerability.

    The conclusion then is that uBO (MV2) stopped working for me today after restarting my computer, I suppose.

  • smileybarry 2 days ago

    Microsoft supposedly aligned with deprecating MV2 back when Google announced it but they've indefinitely postponed it. The KB about it still says "TBD", and there's zero mention of it around the actual browser. IMO it's a good alternative, if you trust Microsoft (I do).

    • paulryanrogers a day ago

      I would interpret that "TBD" to mean the moment Microsoft pulls in Chromium 139 changes. Anything else would be to costly for a small amount of goodwill from a niche community.

  • Aurornis 2 days ago

    Try installing uBlock Origin Lite and see if it works for your needs.

  • j45 2 days ago

    The little I've read bout this says that maintaining MV2 might be something as well.

    If other chromium based browsers didn't have this issue, that would be great, but likely in time Youtube won't support browsers that don't have MV3. Probably still have some time though.

    • SSchick 2 days ago

      Switched to Firefox yesterday, I suggest you do the same.

      • dwedge 2 days ago

        Are they still funded to the tune of a billion a year by Google so that Google can pretend they don't have a monopoly? Are they still intent on redefining as an ad company?

      • dexterdog 2 days ago

        If you're going to switch you should switch to a better option. I've been using librewolf for years since Firefox doesn't have the best track record either.

      • j45 2 days ago

        That's a good reminder to update Firefox.

        I tend to oscillate back and forth every few years gradually.

        Lately not Chrome proper, there are some neat browser takes worth trying out like Vivaldi, Brave, Arc, etc that are Chromium based.

    • shakna 2 days ago

      Google using YouTube to block non-MV3 browsers, would be Google picking a fight with Firefox - who they use in court documents to say that they're not a monopoly. Their legal team will have a few words to say about it.

atlintots a day ago

I bypass Google's big anti-adblock updates by using Firefox

diebillionaires a day ago

People shouldn’t be using chrome anymore. Not even the technologically illiterate. I’d go so far as to say even safari is possibly more private.

bgnn a day ago

Reading the comments, I see a lot of hate for Firefox. What is the explanation for this (other than people not trying Firefox and assuming it's inferior)?

  • jacquesm a day ago

    I love Firefox, I've bee using it for as long as it exists and Netscape before that. It's Mozilla I have a problem with. Mozilla has allowed itself to become controlled opposition rather than the aggressive underdog that it should be. Lots of the money they take in that could go to improving Firefox is spent on stuff I could not care less about. There is no way to earmark funds sent to Mozilla as 'browser only'.

    • WhrRTheBaboons a day ago

      Ultimately the issue is allowing Google to skirt around anti-monopoly rules by throwing money at Mozilla. Can't really blame the latter for cashing in when the rules fail at enforcing a competitive environment.

      Hate the game, not the player, basically.

  • haloboy777 a day ago

    I love using firefox. Mozilla has lost all the trust I had in them. The biggest blow for me was them shutting down pocket.

  • hashstring a day ago

    Also their browser security always seems to lag behind…

  • qilo a day ago

    Mozilla sells user data to third parties. Their statement:

    The reason we’ve stepped away from making blanket claims that “We never sell your data” is because, in some places, the LEGAL definition of “sale of data” is broad and evolving. As an example, the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) defines “sale” as the “selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer’s personal information by [a] business to another business or a third party” in exchange for “monetary” or “other valuable consideration.”

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213612

bborud a day ago

I remember back in the day, one of the big selling points for Google’s search engine used to be that the advertising didn’t get in the way. Imagine that.

  • le-mark a day ago

    I stopped saying this because no one remembers. Or the people I was talking to were to young. It’s way worse now than askjeeves ever was!

alex1138 2 days ago

1) A lot of ads are terribly overdone and even sometimes actively malicious (malware or tracking). It makes no sense to aggressively try to stamp it out like Google is doing

2) Aside from the Page/Brin stealing tech salaries thing (yeah it really did happen) what happened to Google? They've always been a bit incompetent but their behavior (ie Chrome and increasing censorship on Google/Youtube the last few years) has been really bad, I thought they were basically founded off idealism

  • acdha a day ago

    > Aside from the Page/Brin stealing tech salaries thing (yeah it really did happen) what happened to Google?

    They bought DoubleClick in 2009, with an outcome similar to the way Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas but their management culture was taken over by acquired company. They haven’t launched a popular product since and their preexisting products have clearly been shifting to an “ads justify the means” mentality over time.

  • jacquesm a day ago

    > and even sometimes actively malicious

    Most of the times. In fact, the situations where they are not actively tracking are exceedingly rare.

fracus 2 days ago

> But I don't know how to make an adblocker, so I decided to report the issue to Google in August 2023. It was patched in Chrome 118 by checking whether extensions usin

Well, thanks for nothing?

  • deryilz 2 days ago

    Author here, sorry. I don't think any open-source extension (especially large adblockers with millions of users) could actually get away with using this bug, because Google is paying close attention to them. It would've been patched immediately either way.

    • physicles 2 days ago

      You’re right, and good on you for paying attention to the human/business context behind the code.

    • userbinator a day ago

      [flagged]

      • deryilz a day ago

        Hi, I appreciate your opinion, but really disagree. First of all, this is one bug, and most of the ones I find don't "act against user's interests" (not that this one could have been used effectively without being patched anyway). Doing bug finding is how I make a difference and a skill I feel proud of.

        I USED to keep bugs (read: exploits) for myself without sharing them, but after a while I realized it was not worth it and my skills were basically going to waste. You can say philosophical stuff about ads if you want but bug finding for me is a fun challenge with a good community. I'm not pretending Google is my best friend.

        Plus, doing this gets me a bit of money. It's either this or I work summers at a grocery store, and I prefer this.

      • IshKebab a day ago

        He may be young but it seems like he has already learnt not to be patronising and wrong.

      • deryilz a day ago

        Also, dude, from your other comments: "What a selfish dickhead, helping them make better nooses to put around everyone's necks (including his own)."

        And "People like this are enemies of freedom and should be called out publicly."

        What the ?

maxglute 8 hours ago

>If only I weren't 8 years old back then [bug discovery]... maybe I could have cashed in.

Impressive and feels bad man.

[removed] 2 days ago
[deleted]
exabrial a day ago

Google hijacked the Internet by dominating web standards and abusing their market position. We could vote on a new RFC and Google gets the veto vote merely if they don’t want to put it in Chrome.

crinkly 2 days ago

Signed up to complain about this. YT is no longer worth watching ads for. Anything that is worth paying for, the money needs to go via Patreon so the publisher isn't demonetized at a whim. The rest is brain-rot, utter shit and a lot of damaging misinformation. I hope it dies. While it remains easy to do so, I will "steal" with yt-dlp and proudly watch it ad-free on VLC on my computer. If they break that then I'm no longer interested.

When this became adversarial, which was a battle that lasted the last year of inconvenience I ended up dumping every Google thing I have. So the Pixel is GrapheneOS now with no Google crap. Browser is Firefox. Email has moved from Gmail to Fastmail with a domain.

My Google account is closed after 20 years. The relationship is dead. They can do what they want. I don't care any more.

  • hengheng 2 days ago

    You didn't really mention what aggravated you.

    • crinkly 2 days ago

      Initially the increase in frequency of the advertising on Android youtube app. Followed by uBlock being broken in Chrome. Followed by uBlock being tarpitted in Firefox. Followed by FreeTube client getting 403 IP forbidden requests and DRM content shovelled down which could not be rendered.

      They just did everything to make sure I watched the ads and burn all my bandwidth, which can be somewhat limited and expensive as I travel a lot.

      • myko 2 days ago

        Did you consider YouTube Premium? It works really well and no ads. Seems like a pittance for the service YouTube provides

qwertox a day ago

> For the report, I netted a massive reward of $0.

Sure, not a security issue. But given how much Google hates Ad Blockers, they could have easily given him some USD 50,000.

baxuz a day ago

Just get AdGuard as it's a superior solution anyway.

And I mean the actual app that can modify responses, not a simple DNS filter.

  • jambutters a day ago

    I thought it was just a DNS filter. I have it running on my pi

shitonU2 a day ago

Being neither an expert nor illiterate I've been blocked, very recently, from websites vital to me. Whether caused by Microsoft (most likely) or Google (less so) I've never had problems like this before. Usually, a little patience and they resolve the issue in short order. I hope this is the case now. Long ago I used IE, then Firefox and finally settled on Chrome. These current issues, if they persist, will be enough to make me move.

pogue a day ago

Why couldn't someone just compile Chromium and strip out webRequestBlocking from the code?

NoMoreNicksLeft 2 days ago

https://getfirefox.org

Even ignoring the adblock issues, Chrome isn't worth it... Google themselves spy on you with it. Cockblocking adblock just puts extra emphasis on what you should have already known.

closetkantian a day ago

Would it be possible to create a web browser where different tabs are running other browsers? Like I could have chrome in one tab and Firefox in another? Almost like a VM?

  • Doxin a day ago

    You used to have an activeX plugin for internet explorer that would selectively render certain sites using google chrome

nomendos a day ago

Stop using Chrome. (i.e. as main browser I use Firefox which with containers is unmatched and Brave for any websites that I used Chrome in the past mainly for faster JS, while speed is +/- per bench) This could not have much effect on Google in the beginning (technically informed users first), but at some point it can (and I predict will, as technical literacy and privacy awareness is increasing, plus greed and productization of user data does have limits..) be avalanche moment. It will take variable time due to many variables, but is inevitability (i.e. universe law of "optimal path"). In my opinion, Google has miscalculated with the move to obsolete MV2 (masking it as "security" adds to dishonesty and consequent distrust, which is the opposite from the original Google's founding principles)

froderick 2 days ago

As an exclusive Firefox user, with really great ad blocking features, I didn’t notice that Chrome got worse on this front. I’m sorry to hear that. Perhaps it’s time for a change. Best of luck.

coppa a day ago

For work I need various profiles, The feature is so bad on Firefox…. Please community just fix that…

[removed] a day ago
[deleted]
Cyclone_ 20 hours ago

This seems to make a good case for the brave browser

  • nemomarx 20 hours ago

    I do hope they continue to support it, but any chromium fork is going to struggle if Google changes the base engine more on them. I think a different engine is ultimately safer.

Beijinger 2 days ago

I did not even realize my ublock origin was turned off. My HOST FILE script did the same service: https://expatcircle.com/cms/privacy-advanced-ublock-origin-w...

More concerning is that social fixer was turned off: https://socialfixer.com/

MFGA Make Facebook Great again ;-)

  • kingo55 2 days ago

    Changing your hosts file helps but it would only block hostnames primarily used for ads and trackers - it wouldn't address those trackers and ads loaded from hostnames shared with actual content. The more sophisticated sites will proxy their tracking and ads through their main app:

    E.g. www.cnn.com/ads.js

    I prefer having multiple layers just in case anything drops off:

    1. VPN DNS / AdGuard local cached DNS 2. uBlock Origin

    It's like wearing two condoms (but it feels better than natural).

znort_ 20 hours ago

> But I don't know how to make an adblocker, so I decided to report the issue to Google in August 2023. (...) For the report, I netted a massive reward of $0

rome doesn't pay traitors.

heraldgeezer 2 days ago

Just use Firefox with ublock origin. On Android too. Nightly has tabs on tablet.

At work I use Edge (MS integration w SSO and all). Edge has some nice features like vertical tabs and copilot. (yes, email writing with AI is nice)

We are allowed Chrome and FF so have those too with ublock on FF. Chrome is 3rd choice if a site really needs it and for testing.

  • OlivOnTech 2 days ago

    Firefox has had vertical tabs (and tabs groups) for few months now

    • heraldgeezer 2 days ago

      Indeed. I love the FF vertical tabs too, I should say.

      Too bad the work one is still locked to 128 ESR :(

SuperShibe 2 days ago

[flagged]

  • Aurornis 2 days ago

    If a major adblocker used a bug or security vulnerability to work around restrictions, it would have been patched away immediately.

    The uBlock team was never going to ship code that depended on a bug to work.

    • r4indeer a day ago

      I fully agree. The original comment and the other replies to it are bewildering. There was nothing to gain here, yet people are throwing ad hominem attacks left and right.

  • WD-42 2 days ago

    The exact wording was:

    > But I don't know how to make an adblocker, so I decided to report the issue to Google in August 2023.

    So why not go to someone that does know how to make a blocker? Nice snitch.

  • 4gotunameagain 2 days ago

    Well, in his defense it would have been patched immediately after the first adblocker used it, and he would have gotten nothing at all out of it.

    Oh wait he got nothing at all anyway ;)

    • m4rtink 2 days ago

      Would be quite different if they patched it and broke important extensions, possibly facing serieous outcry and bad publicity.

      • deryilz 2 days ago

        I agree that would change things but I can't picture an open-source extension with millions of users pivoting to rely on something that's clearly a bug.

        • userbinator a day ago

          At that point it's a feature, not a bug.

          Having millions of users on your side is great ammunition.

      • rollcat 2 days ago

        Important extensions like, dunno, uBlock Origin?

        • eddythompson80 2 days ago

          Yeah, surely if chrome broke important extensions people will get mad and switch.

    • freed0mdox 2 days ago

      Not really, this sort of fame farming is what makes candidates stand out in infosec interviews. A bug in Google systems is good for his future career.

      • lucb1e 2 days ago

        The post says they had another bug with a large bounty in the same year, so it doesn't seem very useful for CV padding either

  • romanovcode a day ago

    He was hoping to be a good boy and receive some cash from Google, as per article.

sciencesama 2 days ago

Using ebpf to block ads would be fun !! Need a way to translate rules into blocking rules for ebpf

  • paulryanrogers a day ago

    How would that work? Isn't having all the browser and doc context what makes UBO (MV2) the most robust blocker?

    Would the browser be talking to the kernel through some back channel?

ujkhsjkdhf234 2 days ago

No judgement but I would love to hear from Google employees who worked on this. Do they believe they are improving the internet in any way?

  • lucb1e 2 days ago

    There is also an argument to be made that adblocking is immoral. I think the idea is pervasive enough to fill a team of willing people, especially if you pay them 100k/year to at least go along with it for the time being

    I haven't made up my own mind about it yet, just that this might be a factor in why one would move the facilitating technology backwards in this way (and forwards in other ways, apparently: some people in the thread are reporting that uBlock Lite is faster. Not that I can tell the difference between a clean Firefox without add-ons (I regularly use that for work reasons) and a Firefox with uBlock Origin (my daily driver) except if the page is bogged down from all the ads)

    • ujkhsjkdhf234 2 days ago

      I don't think ads are immoral but I think the way FAANG does ads and tracking is immoral. Google does not do enough to vet ads for malicious activity such as scams and viruses. The FBI in recent years has started recommending an adblocker for that reason.

  • userbinator a day ago

    They are being paid to think what they're told to think.

scotty79 a day ago

I switched away from Chrome years ago. Not because of their weird anit-adblock moves. Just because the quality of their software dropped. Because of various UI bugs of their tabs that didn't get fixed with updates. I remembers that when Chrome came out it was rock solid and fast so it's a huge disappointment.

I tried out Firefox again and nowadays it is as fast and as solid as Chrome used to be. Never looked back. I still keep Chrome for cases when somebody YOLOed their website, but I use it the way I used to use IE, briefly and with distaste. With the next upgrade I might just start using builtin Edge for that and not bother to install Chrome at all.

sneak a day ago

So theoretically Chrome is open source.

Open source is supposed to prevent issues like this, as it is possible to fork Chrome pre-MV3 and preserve this functionality.

However, this appears to have not happened.

Perhaps we need a better definition of “open source”, or well-funded organizations that are adversarial in nature to the maintainers of open source commercial software.

Lots of f/oss has malware and misfeatures in it, hiding behind the guise of “open source”. It doesn’t count unless there are non-corporate interests at work in the project that are willing and able to fork.

  • yard2010 a day ago

    Chrome is open source just like Russia and Iran are democratic dictatorships. Just in the naming.

  • arccy a day ago

    open source only means you can use and fork it without too many restrictions. it doesn't mean open governance or did the greater good.

unstatusthequo 2 days ago

I’ve been happy with Orion on macOS. I get it’s WebKit but at least it’s not Chrome. Brave was also good if you must have chromium.

akomtu 2 days ago

Google is running an experiment: how much ads crap users are willing to tolerate before they switch supplier.

ltbarcly3 2 days ago

I was able to bypass the chrome changes by installing firefox. Honestly it's better than I thought it would be, and I have no serious complaints, or broken sites. Yay web standards.

  • ltbarcly3 a day ago

    I absolutely love that people are downvoting this. What is wrong with this site now?

znpy 2 days ago

Somebody should probably fork chromium.

I remember when Firefox was getting traction, it had a killer feature: speed.

A chromium fork could come with a simple killer feature: bringing back the possibility of blocking requests.

I’m pretty sure it would quickly gain traction.

  • slig 2 days ago

    That's Brave, a fork with native AdBlock.

    • znpy 3 hours ago

      Ah nice, I’m installing that then

orliesaurus 2 days ago

I honestly thought reading this blog post was quite refreshing and I had a little smirk at the caption of the photo. Thank you for sharing!

  • deryilz 2 days ago

    Author here, thank you! A lot of the comments here are more general arguments about MV3 and Google (which I kinda expected) but I'm glad see someone who liked my post :)

moffkalast a day ago

> I don't know how to make an adblocker, so I decided to report the issue to Google in August 2023.

> It was patched in Chrome 118 by checking whether extensions using opt_webViewInstanceId actually had WebView permissions.

> For the report, I netted a massive reward of $0.

Snitches get stitches, not rewards.

FWIW, on Windows Google relies on the registry to determine weather to use V2 or V3, and it can be reenabled: https://gist.github.com/MuTLY/71849b71e6391c51cd93bdea36137d...

  • deryilz a day ago

    No adblocking extension would ever rely on a clear bug to function. Google reviews extension code and would immediately patch the bug, and maybe use it as an excuse to kick the extension off the web store. I don't buy the idea that there was a viable second option here.

Garvi a day ago

I notice people being very reserved on their criticisms of Google, knowing Google can end their careers in an instant if it chooses to.

est 2 days ago

I got downvoted for commenting this, why can't we make a ManifestV2-like framework using .DLLs ? This can enable network control for ad blockers and Google can do nothing about it.

  • deryilz 2 days ago

    I think the trouble is that certain adblocking features (like skipping ads on YouTube, Twitch, etc) require modifying the page you're viewing in your browser; just filtering network requests isn't enough. So right now a browser extension is the most natural choice for an adblocker, but honestly that might change if browsers keep being so hostile towards them.

    • est a day ago

      expose DOM and JSON to external .DLL then

      browsers should have open Web standards as well as open local runtime.

rasz 2 days ago

> It was patched in Chrome 118 by checking whether extensions using opt_webViewInstanceId actually had WebView permissions

soo will this still just work if we give uBo webview permission?

  • deryilz 2 days ago

    Unfortunately extensions can't have webview perms :(

    • rasz 2 days ago

      "'webview' is only allowed for packaged apps, but this is a extension."

      :( but maybe Vivaldi and Brave could remove this check just for fun.

[removed] 2 days ago
[deleted]
macinjosh a day ago

i never made chrome my daily driver. firefox and safari are wonderful browsers.

john_alan a day ago

who uses browser level Adblockers anymore?

Just use Pihole.

Traveling? VPN home then Pihole

  • paulryanrogers 17 hours ago

    Apparently a lot of folks, at least judging by UBO user numbers. Pihole doesn't look trivial to setup.

[removed] a day ago
[deleted]
ur-whale 2 days ago

[flagged]

  • rf15 2 days ago

    Our ideals do not simply change the fact that chrome and its derivatives are the most used browser by a big margin at this moment. And, looking at how this came to be and how things were with IE before it, they are going to stay a bit longer still. Stop being in denial about the way most people function: they don't care, they will eat the most convenient slop they are being served and not question it much. Because it doesn't matter as long as it allows you to browse your socials.

    • bowsamic 2 days ago

      I hate to use this word but this is a huge amount of projection in response to the comment you replied to, which did not seem to make any of the points you ascribed to it.

  • perching_aix 2 days ago

    > unless you're still using the spying machine

    So a computer?

    • bowsamic 2 days ago

      If you use a free operating system https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html then you have less chance of being spied on. At least you can check

      • hk__2 2 days ago

        Yes you can, but do you?

      • perching_aix 2 days ago

        > At least you can check

        I don't think they enable me to inspect e.g. my CPU's firmware, or that they're able to provide any guarantees about the hardware itself.

        So it still just makes for a large shopping bag sized trust-me-bro box executing hundreds of billions of instructions a second. But now with a false sense of comfort.

        I'm more than happy to concede on this being overly dramatic though, provided you concede on having been engaging in a similarly unserious hyperbole of your own.

labrador 2 days ago

I'd gladly pay for YouTube without ads if I trusted that it would remain ad free, but the track record from various companies on this is not good.

  • Karsteski 2 days ago

    I tried paying for YouTube premium then they fucked around by not giving me all the features I paid for when I was visiting another country. There's no winning with these people.

    • dandellion 2 days ago

      I paid premium a few months, then they added shorts and there was no way to block them, so I installed a blocker and stopped paying for it.

  • jamesfmilne 2 days ago

    I've been paying for YouTube premium for probably 2 years now. Never had any inserted ads. Only the "this video is sponsored by" stuff, which you can just skip over.

    I can't possibly go back to non-Premium YouTube, and if they mess around with Premium I'll probably be moving on from YouTube.

  • raincole 2 days ago

    Youtube premium has been ad-free for 10 years. What kind of track record do you need? 20 years? 100 years?

    • izzydata a day ago

      Youtube premium is still an ad driven business model. They are the ones making the problem worse so they can sell you the solution. The more you pay for Youtube Premium the more incentive they have to make ads worse.

    • eviks a day ago

      It has never been ad-free, sponsored segments have always existed

      • arccy a day ago

        you should blame the creators for being greedy, not YouTube for that

        • eviks a day ago

          YT sets the rules of what content is allowed and sets the level of deception in their marketing regarding this "ours vs theirs" distinction in ads, so feel free to blame it as well.

    • vinyl7 2 days ago

      Netflix and other streaming sites have ads on some paid subscriptions. First they start with ad free subs, then introduce ads and introduce a higher priced tier to get rid of ads

      • WrongAssumption 2 days ago

        Can't you just stop subscribing when that happens? You aren't signing a 5 year contract.

      • raincole 2 days ago

        So if one supermarket sold expired food, we should avoid another supermarket that has not been doing that for 10 years? Google/Youtube doesn't own Netflix. If anything, the reasonable response would be to unsub Netflix and sub its competitors, like, uh, Youtube.

        • eviks a day ago

          No, if all the big supermarkets sell expired food from time to time to meet profitability expectations, there is no reason to believe one will be so unique as to be able to resist using the same industry standard, especially when it already has a much bigger expired food business

  • npteljes 2 days ago

    I just pay them until it works, and I'll reconsider once it changes. Don't worry about track record, you can stop paying anytime.

  • matheusmoreira 2 days ago

    Paying to avoid ads just makes your attention even more valuable to them. Always block them unconditionally and without any payment.

    Ads are a violation of the sanctity of our minds. They are not entitled to our attention. It's not currency to pay for services with.

    • yard2010 a day ago

      Ads are social cancer that's spreading without any attention nor control from the authorities. Just like cigarettes 30 years ago.

    • ThunderSizzle 2 days ago

      Or rather, don't use YouTube without paying.

      Youtube isn't free, and unlike a simple blog, requires tons of infrastructure and content creation. None of that is free, and people wanting that to be free is why we're in adscape hell.

      Edit: I'd love for a competitor to youtube, but there isn't. Rumble isn't a real competitor, and none of my favorite channels place their content there either.

      I wish there was a youtube alternative that was more of a federation, but every attempt I've seen of federations have been mess.

      • matheusmoreira 2 days ago

        > Youtube isn't free

        Then charge for it like the other streaming services. If they send me ads, I'll block and delete them, manually or automatically, and I won't lose a second of sleep over it.

        > requires tons of infrastructure and content creation

        Not our problem. It's up to the so called innovators to come up with a working business model. If they can't, they should go bankrupt.

        • [removed] 2 days ago
          [deleted]
    • theoreticalmal 2 days ago

      That’s quite a stretch. I loathe ads as much as anyone else here, but I don’t consider being exposed to them as violating the sanctity of my mind (is my mind even sacrosanct, such that it could be violated?) it’s just something I don’t like.

      And yes, attention is absolutely a currency that can be used to pay for things. Like any other voluntary transaction, no one is entitled to my attention unless we both voluntarily agree to it.

      • card_zero 2 days ago

        That implies voluntarily paying attention to adverts, as an informal contractual obligation. You aren't allowed on Youtube any more because you haven't been allowing the adverts to influence you enough. You can't look away or think about something else, that's cheating on the deal.

      • sensanaty 2 days ago

        Advertisements have been proven countless times to be a form of psychological manipulation, and a very potent one that works very well. After all, if it didn't work we wouldn't be seeing ads crop up literally every-fucking-where, including these days even in our very own night sky in the form of drone lightshows. The ad companies have huge teams of mental health experts in order to maximize the reach & impact of their advertisements on the general populace.

        Ads are so powerful that they've even managed to twist the truth about plenty of horrific shit happening to the point of affecting the health and safety of real people, sometimes literally on a global scale. Chiquita bananas, De Beers, Nestle, Oil & Gas companies, and must I remind you of Tobacco companies (and surprise surprise, the same people who were doing the ads for Big Tobacco are the ones doing ad campaigns for O&G companies now)? There have been SO MANY examples from all these companies of using advertisements to trick and manipulate people & politicians, oftentimes just straight up lying, like the Tobacco companies lying about the adverse health effects despite knowing for decades what the adverse health effects were, Or Oil & Gas companies lying about climate change via comprehensive astroturfing & advertisement campaigns [1].

        This all barely scratches the surface, too, especially these days where you have platforms like Google and Meta enabling genocides, mass political interference and pushing things like crypto scams, gambling ads and other similarly heinous and harmful shit to the entire internet.

        The TL;DR of all of this is that yes, advertisements absolutely are psychological warfare. They have been and continue to be used for absolutely vile and heinous activities, and the advertisers employ huge teams of people to ensure that their mass influence machine runs smoothly, overtaking everyone's minds slowly but surely with nothing but pure lies fabricated solely to sell people products they absolutely do not, and will never need.

        [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v1Yg6XejyE

      • matheusmoreira 2 days ago

        > I don’t consider being exposed to them as violating the sanctity of my mind

        I do. I think it's a form of mind rape. You're trying to read something and suddenly you've got corporations inserting their brands and jingles and taglines into your mind without your consent. That's unacceptable.

        > attention is absolutely a currency that can be used to pay for things

        No. Attention is a cognitive function. It has none of the properties of currency.

        These corporations are sending you stuff for free. They are hoping you will pay attention to the ads. At no point did they charge you any money. You are not obligated to make their advertising campaigns a success.

        They are taking a risk. They are assuming you will pay attention. We are entirely within our rights to deny them their payoff. They sent you stuff for free with noise and garbage attached. You can trash the garbage and filter out the noise. They have only themselves to blame.

    • luoc 2 days ago

      Can you elaborate a bit? Why would that make my attention more valuable than other's?

      • tyre 2 days ago

        If you are a paying subscriber, you are self-identifying as (likely) a higher net-worth. The problem for ad platforms allowing paid opt-out is that the most valuable users leave the network.

        Then they have to go to advertisers and say, “advertise on our network where all the wealthier people are not.” A brand like Tiffany’s or Rolex (both huge advertisers) aren’t going to opt into that.

      • matheusmoreira 2 days ago

        Because by paying you are demonstrating you have more than enough disposable income to waste on their extortion. You're paying for the privilege of segmenting yourself into the richer echelons of the market. You're basically doing their marketing job for them and paying for the privilege.

        At some point some shareholder value maximizing CEO is going to sit down and notice just how much money he's leaving on the table by not advertising to paying customers like you. It's simply a matter of time.

        Take a third option. Don't pay them and block their ads. Block their data collection too. It's your computer, you are in control.

    • JumpCrisscross 2 days ago

      The point is most people will never pay. That makes the Adblock/anti-adblock war inevitable for them. If you can afford it, you sidestep it. If you can’t or won’t, you don’t. Pretending there is some point where those folks would pay is a little delusional in my view.

      • matheusmoreira 2 days ago

        I'm not pretending. I know most people won't pay. The point is it doesn't matter.

        They're giving their stuff away for free instead of charging money for it. They gambled on the notion that people would "pay" by watching ads. Unfortunately for them, attention is not currency to pay for services with. We will resist their attempts to monetize our cognitive functions. The blocking of advertising is self defense.

        They have absolutely nobody but themselves and their own greed to blame. Instead of charging money up front like an honest business, they decided to tap into that juicy mass market by giving away free sfuff. Their thinking goes: if I give them free videos with ads, then they will look at the ads and I will get paid. That's magical thinking. There is no such deal in place. We are not obligated to look at the ads at all. They don't get to cry about their gamble not paying off.

  • iLoveOncall 2 days ago

    So pay now and stop paying if they introduce ads? It's not like it's a lifetime subscription.

    I've been paying for it for a year+ for my girlfriend who was watching more ads than content and we've never seen ads since.

    • labrador 2 days ago

      That's good to know. I was hoping for a reply like yours. I will subscribe. YouTube is an amazing resource for human kind and I agree those of us who can afford it should pay to support it.

      • rightbyte a day ago

        Seems strange to me to support Google with your money from a moral perspective. It is a spyware company.

    • j45 2 days ago

      Totally, there's not a lot of places to vote with your dollars to get rid of interruptions like Ads, and also get back a lot of time of your life.

  • jorvi 2 days ago

    Don't let everyone responding gaslight you. YouTube Premium is absolutely stuffed with ads[0] (sorry, 'promoted content' / 'sponsorship'). The only probable explanation I have for this is that Google has successfully boiled the frog and people mentally don't even register these things as ads anymore.

    And that's not to mention pretty much every single creator stuffing sponsored sections into their videos now. We have Sponsorblock for now, but I imagine Google will try to introduce random offsets at some point which will render Sponsorblock mute. Maybe an AI blocker will rise up in the future?

    At any rate, fight fire with fire. Just use every bit of adblocking on desktop, Revanced on Android and hope that Revanced or Youtube++ comes to iOS 3rd party stores at some point.

    [0]https://imgur.com/a/3emEhsF

    Edit: since people are too lazy to click on the link and instead ram the downvote button in blind rage, image 1 and 4 contain straight up ads, unconnected to creators.

    • jowea 2 days ago

      I think people just decided it doesn't count as ads when it's the creator doing it. And it feels more tolerable since the money is going to the creator that they probably like instead of megacorp Google.

      • jorvi 2 days ago

        1 and 4 contain straight up ads.

    • imiric 2 days ago

      I'm honestly baffled why anyone who objects to ads would still want to use any of the official YouTube clients. Whether or not they show ads to you on YouTube, they still track your every move and use it to improve their profile of you so that they can show you ads on any of their other platforms, sell your data, or whatever other shady business they do behind the scenes to extract value from it.

      Adtech cannot be trusted. I refuse to support their empire whether that's financially or with my data and attention.

    • userbinator a day ago

      And that's not to mention pretty much every single creator stuffing sponsored sections into their videos now.

      Fortunately I mainly watch the videos which are not made by "creators" looking for $$$ but just people sharing something interesting and useful; the ones which have no annoying intros or outros, "like share and subscribe" drivel, and are often not much more than raw unedited content. They still exist on YouTube.

  • stefan_ 2 days ago

    They rolled out the Chrome "kill adblockers" update globally then unleashed the new wave of YouTube "anti-adblock" a month later. While in a literal losing court case thats suggesting Chrome be split out from Google as a whole. They must be so confident nothing can touch them.

  • j45 2 days ago

    Youtube premium has remained adfree as far as I know.

    Best to try it out yourself. I can't watch Youtube with Ads ever anymore.

    If a 100% Ad-free youtube premium at the current price point ever went away, something would have to change about the ads.

    • lpcvoid 2 days ago

      Nah, Firefox with ublock origin is better than giving money to google.

      • iLoveOncall 2 days ago

        You also give money to the creators you watch by watching ads or watching with YouTube premium.

        You also can't block ads on iPhones, which a majority of the developed world uses. My girlfriend has never watched a YouTube video on something other than an Apple device for example.

    • theoreticalmal 2 days ago

      I get an ad-free YouTube experience for $0 with software. Why do you pay for it?

      • cbeley 2 days ago

        Because I want to actually support content creators. I also want it to be more normalized to pay for things vs having ad supported content.

      • dandellion 2 days ago

        Plus you can block shorts. You can't do that with premium.

        I got fed up and stopped paying for premium, now I get no shorts and no ads, it's a win-win.

  • naikrovek 2 days ago

    I pay for YouTube premium for my family and there haven’t been any injected ads at all. Only the ones that the video themselves have in, which are also very annoying.

    I can’t speak for the future, but I’ve had this for probably 5 years and I haven’t seen a single ad, only the videos that I’ve asked to see.

    • j45 2 days ago

      Same experience.

      The family plan is nice to share with family to reduce how much everyone's exposed to ads.

      In-Video sponsorships are a pain, sometimes they are chaptered out enough and can be skipped.

      If I could pay for an ad-free google search I probably would. Off the shelf, not doing API calls.

      • kenmacd 2 days ago

        <cough> SponsorBlock (https://sponsor.ajay.app/) <cough>

        It works amazingly well provided a video's been out for at least a half hour or so. It also has the option to skip the "like and subscribe" parts too.

        I also tried the https://dearrow.ajay.app/ extension to replace clickbait titles, but decided I'd rather know when a channel/video is too clickbait-y so I can block/unsubscribe.

  • ProllyInfamous 2 days ago

    If you simply add a `-` (en-dash) between the `t` & 2nd `u` in the URL, your viewing experience automatically skips all external ads, without login/premium.

    Syntax: www.yout-ube.com/watch?v=XqZsoesa55w

    This also works for playlists, and auto-repeats.

    edit: is this getting downvoted because it works and people are worried this service might disappear should this bypass become too popular..? Just curious.

deanc 2 days ago

Chrome full on blocked uBlock Origin (and others) this week. There is still four flags [1] you can play with that will allow you to re-enable it again, but this is a losing battle of course. The inevitable is coming.

Nothing comes close to Safari battery life on MacOS, followed by chrome, followed by firefox in last place (with all its other issues - those claiming otherwise have stockholm syndrome). I've tried taking Orion for a spin which should offer the battery life of Safari with the flexibility of running FF and chrome extensions - but it hasn't stuck yet. As much as I'd like to use FF, I really don't want to shave 10-20% (?) off a battery charge cycle when I spend 90% of my day in the browser.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1lx59m0/resto...

  • rstat1 2 days ago

    >>with all its other issues - those claiming otherwise have stockholm syndrome

    What issues? Works just as well as Chrome ever did (before they started blocking extensions at least) for me.

  • Brian_K_White 2 days ago

    And I value FF way more than an hour of battery.

    All day every day my computer works fine.

    That difference in battery, if it exists, doesn't actually materially manifest anywhere. But the difference between FF and anything else matters basically every minute all day.

    On top of that, even if I ever did actually run into the difference, needing to plug in before I would have anyway, it's an annoyance vs a necessity. The ability to control my own browser is frankly just not negotiable. It doesn't actually matter if it were less convenient in some other way, it's simply a base level requirement and anything that doesn't provide that doesn't matter what other qualities it might have.

    You might say "a computer that's dead doesn't work at all" but that never actually happens. I'd need an 8 hour bus ride with no seat power to get to the point where that last missing hour would actually leave me with no computer for an hour, and that would need to be a commute that happens twice every day for it to even matter.

    For me that's just not the reasonable priority.

  • echelon 2 days ago

    This should lead to a full-on antitrust breakup of Google. Period.

    They own the web.

    I can build my business brand, own my own dot com, but then have to pay Google ad extortion money to not have my competitors by ads well above my domain name. And of course the address bar now does search instead of going to the appropriate place.

    Google is a scourge.

  • [removed] 2 days ago
    [deleted]