Comment by greybox

Comment by greybox 6 months ago

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This doesn't surprise me at all. I work in the EU but recently the Americans we hire are very hesitant to have conversations with service providers. They will pay more to use a service that has an app, rather than call up another taxi company by phone for example (and it's not a language barrier problem, because everyone speaks english). I can see this extending to not wanting to have a driver in their taxi.

I see this with UK people recently too. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not saying it's not an EU thing at all, but from my vantage point, the behavior is most prevalent in Americans

Edit: After reading this thread, it's possible this could be sampling bias and more of a cross-country generational thing from mellennials down. (I am a mellennial too)

majormajor 6 months ago

Americans have been raised for a couple generations to be afraid of people. "Stranger danger." Apocalyptic news media. A general millenarianism-run-amok "the final battle between good and evil is coming and evil outnumbers us" assumption that permeates much of American culture across the political spectrum. Catastrophizing.

Somehow that had an impact on our social skills! It takes a lot of work to de-program that if you're not a natural extrovert.

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  • halfmatthalfcat 6 months ago

    This is a disingenuous take. Americans value their time probably more than any other culture. I’d rather be able to keep reading a book, read some interesting HN content or talk with my friends on Discord more than have small talk with a random uber driver.

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    • majormajor 6 months ago

      The example starting this discussion was not "avoid talking to a taxi driver." It was "book the taxi with an app at higher cost vs using the phone." No Waymos in Europe for them to avoid the drivers with just yet. Simply spending to avoid a phone call.

      I'm skeptical we save a lot of time with our technology-mediated world. I think I could say "one medium pizza with pepperoni" and hear back "ok it'll be ready in 20 minutes" on a phone call quicker than I can put that order in with a device. Apps/websites are only better for group orders that require coordination. That's after I've picked out the restaurant, of course, but there is no shortage of literature on how the huge menu of choices presented by modern app-based services usually slows down people's decision making. (Amusingly this may swing back the other way, just with us talking to LLM-backed machines soon, but I find it hard to believe "we don't want to talk to the guy at the pizza place because we value our time THAT MUCH.") Compared to the phenomenon discussed in all sorts of media from https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/15ecqat/phonephobia/ to https://www.thecut.com/article/psychologists-explain-your-ph... to https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/gen-z-developing-fear-o...

      Very curious if you have a source for that time value bit. I find it hard to believe. We Americans often have EXTREMELY long commutes using a mode of transportation that allows less multitasking than most others. I don't mind my car-based commute personally - it lets me listen to music in peace - but that's similar to how I don't mind making small talk while getting my hair cut - it's a peaceful respite from the usual noise of modern life. Certainly a nice change of pace from using that time to scroll social media or argue on the internet even more.

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      • Shank 6 months ago

        > Simply spending to avoid a phone call.

        If I’m looking at an app I can read far faster than I can understand a phone call, and often I don’t need to explain myself beyond moving some pins around. “Pick me up by the P1 parking garage across from the fence near the stairwell” and related things. I actually want to use my eyes and look at information and not place my bets on the human on the other side getting all of my preferences right.

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      • ryandrake 6 months ago

        > I'm skeptical we save a lot of time with our technology-mediated world. I think I could say "one medium pizza with pepperoni" and hear back "ok it'll be ready in 20 minutes" on a phone call quicker than I can put that order in with a device.

        Apps could beat this in terms of speed, but they don't seem to prioritize it. Every native app and web app I have ever used to do any kind of commerce (not just ordering food) is a grind of tap this, wait, tap that, wait, tap to enter your username, tap to enter your password, tap, tap, tap, wait, wait, wait, do you want these deals?, tap, wait, tap to enter credit card number, tap to enter expiration date, tap to enter ccv code, confirm order, wait, processing, wait...

        I should be able to just invoke my phone's voice assistant function, say "one medium pizza with pepperoni, pick up" and that's it. It already knows where I am, what my usual pizza joint is, what I use to pay, all that. But, we're not there yet for some reason.

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      • nottorp 6 months ago

        In the taxi case the advantage of the app isn't the lack of a phone call, it's not having to explain where you are and where you want to go over said phone call...

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    • maybelsyrup 6 months ago

      You may not agree with it but I fail to see how it’s disingenuous

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cardanome 6 months ago

Americans are often a bit early on trends but honestly as a German, I would love to see waymo here. We are very slow at adapting new tech so it probably still be many years away but it would be a total game changer for me.

Especially if they offered an option for pet-owners. Being able to just chill with your pet and not bothering anyone would be amazing.

Why? Just the consistency is worth the extra money. You know exactly what type of car you are getting. You don't have to worry about getting a bad driver or anything. It just works. Plus the whole tipping thing just sucks. I don't want to decide whether to tip and how much. I want to pay what the service costs and that is that.

Also personally, I just don't like people serving me. Probably because I would barely survive a day in a customer facing job myself. I never quite sure if they attempt smalltalk because they want to talk or if they expect to get a better rating. It is just so awkward.

There are people that genuinely like to work in service jobs of course and long term job loss will suck for them so I am not exactly helping.

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Workaccount2 6 months ago

Years ago when I worked in the food industry, customers would voluntarily pay 20% more for the entire meal just to use the doordash app instead of calling us up. We informed repeat customers that they pay a premium to use 3rd party apps - they just kept using them anyway.

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  • Zak 6 months ago

    I much prefer ordering with a website to ordering on the phone, especially when ordering for several people. Many of the restaurants where I live now have their own websites.

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  • powersnail 6 months ago

    Talking on the phone is the most painful form of conversation for me. The sound quality is often awful, due to the ambient noises picked up by phone, which occurs particularly often for busy restaurants. You don't know if the other side has heard you because you can't see them and there's no visual signal, so there's more back and forth, prolonging the pain. Since you are ordering via the phone, you have to pay by reading out your credit card number. People sometimes hesitate, and you don't know if it's a bad connection, or if they have just paused......

    So yeah, I'd gladly pay a bit more to order via an app. When I'm ordering delivery, I'm already paying premium on that day anyway, the margin of which is way higher than 20%, so I might as well go all the way and avoid dealing with something I don't like.

    If I'm not using an app, I'd rather run a mile to make the order in person, than make a phone call.

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  • Spooky23 6 months ago

    Agreed it’s madness. Ordering a pizza delivery in my city is almost $40. Somehow pizzerias were able to do it cheaper and faster.

    The apps are awful as well. I delivered when I was gifted some gift cards after a loss in the family they raise the prices with gift card balances.

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  • ProllyInfamous 6 months ago

    For the first time in my several decades, I live in walking distance to amenities (e.g. bank, hardware store, local & fast -foods).

    Literally across the street from my neighborhood is among "the best local pizzarias," and I'll still offer to pay for the entire order if somebody else orders / picks-up ("tip them well" I'll usually suggest). I just don't want to talk on the phone (and don't use apps).

    ...Americuhly, the usual neighbor still drives (it's like 1000m, round-trip).

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nitwit005 6 months ago

Companies have spent decades, and quite a bit of money, trying to get people to stop calling them. It's worked. People mostly only call when there is no other option.

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  • karp773 6 months ago

    This. It used to be that customer service agents in America were super helpful and would go an extra mile for you. Not any more, dealing with customer service is just a lot of pain, and often a waste of time.

    As an example, let's say you have a problem with Windows. Would you rather ask AI for help or a human support agent on the microsoft's website?

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balfirevic 6 months ago

> They will pay more to use a service that has an app, rather than call up another taxi company by phone for example

Using an app for taxi booking is so superior to ordering by phone (even excluding potential preference for not talking to service providers) that I have trouble understanding what's puzzling you.

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kevinventullo 6 months ago

I’ve had multiple experiences of calling a cab company and them no-showing. You can call them back and it’s “oh yeah someone’s on their way, 15 minutes.” 40 minutes later, nothing.

With an app, you have a very clear indication of how far away your driver is, but more importantly whether they’re coming at all.

(Also with the EU specifically I very much had an issue with the language barrier in Florence).

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yurishimo 6 months ago

Are the American's you're referencing living in the EU or back in the US? Could the language barrier be a reason for their hesitancy?

I've heard stories about gen-z/alpha being more app brained, but most of my peers in their early 30s are generally fine with calling people or sending an email perhaps depending on the service.

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  • greybox 6 months ago

    > Are the American's you're referencing living in the EU or back in the US?

    The EU

    > Could the language barrier be a reason for their hesitancy?

    No:

    > (and it's not a language barrier problem, because everyone speaks english)

    >I've heard stories about gen-z/alpha being more app brained

    I think you might be on to something there, maybe it's more of a generational thing than a cultural difference between American and EU citizens.

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    • danielbln 6 months ago

      German Millennial here, I'd much prefer an app to having to call someone. I hate calling anyone, and I know I'm not alone there. Let me text or use an app and I'm in.

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      • greybox 6 months ago

        I am a millennial and maybe I am just in the Minority of Millennials that quite likes talking to people even when It's contractual.

        I walk to restaurants if I can to avoid using Wolt for instance.

        Then again, I appreciate that AI is probably a better driver than 60% of taxi drivers.

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      • Henchman21 6 months ago

        Can I ask why you hate calling? I also know you’re not alone— many people I know are the same but I can’t seem to get a reasonable answer to why that doesn’t seem to boil down to social anxiety.

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dgellow 6 months ago

I would pay twice the price of pretty much any service if that means I don’t have to do a phone call

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