Comment by ars

Comment by ars 19 hours ago

32 replies

The article says it lost power, but the photo shows a wind powered vessel with sails.

Some kind of hybrid ship?

perlgeek 16 hours ago

You can see both from the videos and the photos that the sails weren't set, so I can't have been wind-powered at the time of the accident.

Operating a large, wind-powered vessel in a harbor or near shore is very tricky and dangerous (what if the wind suddenly doesn't provide enough propulsion to counteract some water current? what if it suddenly changes direction? breaking is also very tricky) which is why it's not done, and some auxiliary engine provides propulsion.

  • zeeZ 14 hours ago

    From the video you can also see that it's moving backwards.

jabl 18 hours ago

Practically all sailing vessels in use (some racing sailboats etc excepted) have auxiliary engines for moving in constricted areas like ports. Considering this accident happened with people up in the rigging, they were presumably hoisting or lowering the sails when the engine lost power and they drifted into the bridge.

  • thomasfedb 16 hours ago

    I’ve heard (can’t tell for sure from the photos I’ve seen) that they were “dressing the yards” at the time - which is when the crew stands on top of the yards (the horizontal spars) side by side. It’s done for ceremonial or celebratory reasons, not for work.

  • grues-dinner 11 hours ago

    I'd be surprised if any port would easily permit such a ship to come or go under sail power. Sailing a ship into port is risky at the best of times. Yachts may do it into a marina when the wind and tide are just right for fun it as a little bit of a flex. But ports have work to do and having out-of-control sailing ships three sheets to the wind, so to speak, having misjudged the tide or whatever, is just dangerous.

    Also, having your ship stuck in port for days waiting for wind and tide to be suitable for leaving would have been commonplace before engines, as would bring becalmed for weeks on end and being unable to evade dangerous storms. None are probably high on the list of things these ships really want to be doing today.

    • arwineap an hour ago

      The port expects yachts to safely operate their vessels, and it's up to the captains to execute. That could mean sailing in / out of port, or it could mean under engine power.

      The trouble I'm having is if they were leaving under engine power alone, with such fast current, why was the ground tackle not ready to be deployed?

      We ran a much (much) smaller vessel with an unreliable engine and often pre-prepared our anchor before getting into port

SllX 19 hours ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01)

Looks like it. It’s a sail training ship, but it has an engine looking at the infobox, presumably so it’s not relying on the sails for tours such as this, and maybe because the ship itself is for training and they need a failsafe? To be honest, I’m not gathering what the purpose of such a ship is to a modern Navy other than maintaining cultural continuity and a tradition in wind sailing.

EDIT: I'm still inside the edit window but there have been several good answers below. Rather than responding to each one individually let me just say y'all have provided some great answers. Thanks!

  • Tomte 19 hours ago

    Learning the fundamentals.

    Germany puts all aspiring naval officers through a tour on the Gorch Fock.

    It‘s kot just culture, although those ships also serve as excellent ambassadors to far-flung countries.

    • murderfs 18 hours ago

      Yeah, well, if you've invested 135 million euros into repairing a sailboat, you might as well put it to use...

    • raverbashing 18 hours ago

      I suppose "not hitting bridges" is part of the fundamentals

      But it's really curious how it seems those collisions have been becoming more frequent (or only our awareness of it?)

      Another alternative is "the sort" working better than ever which means that maritime employment in some places does not attract the best professionals

      • crooked-v 18 hours ago

        With the case of the US Navy and the well-publicized collisions with civilian vessels, it's happening more because the organization is trying to run more ships and more constant operations with fewer people than are actually required.

        And that's on top of scheduling practices that are fundamentally negligent and dysfunctional to start with, like watch standers (whose job is to watch for and react to dangers to the ship) trying to perform duty shifts on 4 hours of sleep a night for months at a time.

        • hulitu 18 hours ago

          > because the organization is trying to run more ships and more constant operations with fewer people than are actually required

          Greed and AI will replace all workers. /s

      • defrost 18 hours ago

        To be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic.

        It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.

    • nickysielicki 19 hours ago

      The fundamentals have obviously changed. At no point in any serious engagement will it ever be important to have experience with sailing. This ship should have been dry docked and turned into a museum years ago. Two people are dead.

      • shakow 18 hours ago

        That sail-trained sailors make better sailors than engine-trained sailors is similar to how glider-trained pilots make better pilots after transition than engine-trained pilots. They typically acquired a better understanding of the medium they're evolving in, giving them a deeper understanding of the dynamic situation of their craft.

        • nottorp 18 hours ago

          Same for being aware of the lower abstraction layers down to machine code when you're programming in a high level language.

      • loloquwowndueo 12 hours ago

        There’s a lot more to seamanship and crewmanship than propulsion methods. Cuauhtemoc is a training ship designed to teach that, not primarily how to work sails. Also it was built in 1982 so I fail to see how it should be a museum ship since it’s not that old or historic.

      • achierius 18 hours ago

        This incident could have happened regardless of the type of ship. Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd suggest against saying so.

      • ceejayoz 18 hours ago

        The fundamentals include things like teamwork and following orders. You can learn those on a sailing ship just fine.

        • bombcar 15 hours ago

          You learn them better. A big ship can run just fine with a few people; heck, it's probably possible to run with just one if we admit it.

          Big sailing ships don't work like that, you can't furl a sail without intense physical cooperation and teamwork.

  • alistairSH 12 hours ago

    The USS Constitution is still operated by the USN. No longer solely a training vessel, but fills a similar ceremonial role.

    And the USCG operates USCGC Eagle as a training vessel for future officers attending their Academy.

melevittfl 19 hours ago

Sailboats, except for the smallest ones, usually have a motor and propeller to move without relying on wind.

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