Comment by SllX

Comment by SllX 7 months ago

24 replies

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01)

Looks like it. It’s a sail training ship, but it has an engine looking at the infobox, presumably so it’s not relying on the sails for tours such as this, and maybe because the ship itself is for training and they need a failsafe? To be honest, I’m not gathering what the purpose of such a ship is to a modern Navy other than maintaining cultural continuity and a tradition in wind sailing.

EDIT: I'm still inside the edit window but there have been several good answers below. Rather than responding to each one individually let me just say y'all have provided some great answers. Thanks!

Tomte 7 months ago

Learning the fundamentals.

Germany puts all aspiring naval officers through a tour on the Gorch Fock.

It‘s kot just culture, although those ships also serve as excellent ambassadors to far-flung countries.

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  • murderfs 7 months ago

    Yeah, well, if you've invested 135 million euros into repairing a sailboat, you might as well put it to use...

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  • raverbashing 7 months ago

    I suppose "not hitting bridges" is part of the fundamentals

    But it's really curious how it seems those collisions have been becoming more frequent (or only our awareness of it?)

    Another alternative is "the sort" working better than ever which means that maritime employment in some places does not attract the best professionals

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    • crooked-v 7 months ago

      With the case of the US Navy and the well-publicized collisions with civilian vessels, it's happening more because the organization is trying to run more ships and more constant operations with fewer people than are actually required.

      And that's on top of scheduling practices that are fundamentally negligent and dysfunctional to start with, like watch standers (whose job is to watch for and react to dangers to the ship) trying to perform duty shifts on 4 hours of sleep a night for months at a time.

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      • hulitu 7 months ago

        > because the organization is trying to run more ships and more constant operations with fewer people than are actually required

        Greed and AI will replace all workers. /s

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    • defrost 7 months ago

      To be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic.

      It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.

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      • usrusr 7 months ago

        On the videos the ship is drifting backwards, from wind and/or currents (are currents the East River dominated by tides?). I don't think that they ever intended to clear the bridge. The fundamental they missed was keeping their maneuvering engine up and running (or calling in some tugs).

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      • krisoft 7 months ago

        It is not a case of not knowing that the bridge is too low. It is a case of not being able to avoid it and being pushed into it by winds and waves. Reportedly something went wrong with their engine.

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  • nickysielicki 7 months ago

    The fundamentals have obviously changed. At no point in any serious engagement will it ever be important to have experience with sailing. This ship should have been dry docked and turned into a museum years ago. Two people are dead.

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    • shakow 7 months ago

      That sail-trained sailors make better sailors than engine-trained sailors is similar to how glider-trained pilots make better pilots after transition than engine-trained pilots. They typically acquired a better understanding of the medium they're evolving in, giving them a deeper understanding of the dynamic situation of their craft.

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      • nottorp 7 months ago

        Same for being aware of the lower abstraction layers down to machine code when you're programming in a high level language.

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    • loloquwowndueo 7 months ago

      There’s a lot more to seamanship and crewmanship than propulsion methods. Cuauhtemoc is a training ship designed to teach that, not primarily how to work sails. Also it was built in 1982 so I fail to see how it should be a museum ship since it’s not that old or historic.

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    • achierius 7 months ago

      This incident could have happened regardless of the type of ship. Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd suggest against saying so.

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    • ceejayoz 7 months ago

      The fundamentals include things like teamwork and following orders. You can learn those on a sailing ship just fine.

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      • bombcar 7 months ago

        You learn them better. A big ship can run just fine with a few people; heck, it's probably possible to run with just one if we admit it.

        Big sailing ships don't work like that, you can't furl a sail without intense physical cooperation and teamwork.

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    • kbelder 7 months ago

      You can go your whole programming career without using assembly, but it unquestionably makes you a better programmer.

      Reply View 1 reply
      • nickysielicki 7 months ago

        Sure -- what the fuck does that have to do with sailing, though?

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alistairSH 7 months ago

The USS Constitution is still operated by the USN. No longer solely a training vessel, but fills a similar ceremonial role.

And the USCG operates USCGC Eagle as a training vessel for future officers attending their Academy.

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