A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen
(theverge.com)1371 points by kwindla a day ago
1371 points by kwindla a day ago
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!
EDIT: Ughhh, according to the video that another user posted, it looks like there's an app, and yes, "updates" go through it :(
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!
Yes to a simple battery system!
> - Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).
Yes!
> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families. You really want a bench seat to at least stick a small child between the driver and passenger. Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.
The article mentions an SUV upgrade kit that will bolt onto the back of the truck. Ugh, OK I guess. Sad that that's the way it will probably have to go.
> Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families.
What you need is not a pickup truck. Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.
> Back in the day, we'd stuff 3 kids between two adults, but these days the Safety People would have a heart attack just thinking about that.
Rightfully so. Back in the day we did so many things we shouldn't have, and survivorship bias makes us default to thinking it was ok. As kids, we used to go barrelling down dirt roads in the back of pickups or played in the backs of station wagons. There's a reason automobile deaths have gone down.
> Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.
It absolutely does NOT mean those things.
Cars didn't have entertainment systems for nearly a century and families did just fine.
<Get off my lawn>
My entertainment system was the window. Observe the world, not just whatever AI-generated garbage some algorithm pushes to a small screen 8-10 inches away from your eyes.
</Get off my lawn>
> Yes, definitely. It being a 2 seater is kind of a deal breaker for families
I believe I saw there are plans for some sort of SUV conversion.
> Catering to families means expensive bells and whistles, like entertainment systems, etc.
IF it could just get a bluetooth signal from an iDevice or some Android thing, that would probably suffice for a basic option. If the owner needs more than than, let them install (or have installed) some sort of third-party infotainment head of some sort.
Back in the old days, cars sometimes had a single speaker and that was plenty sufficient for listening to music.
I'd want the mobile app to be an auxiliary, not a requirement for operating the truck. Keep the dashboard simple.
I'd be worried that once an app got a foothold into the product, the company would be unable to resist the urge to spread the app's tentacles across the entire vehicle, adding connectivity and telemetry and DRM, integrating it into the other car's systems, adding remote-this and wireless-that, and then inevitably the product would end up just like the turd cars we have today.
Nice idea in theory. In practice, apps imply ongoing OTA connectivity, which means the truck will be updated to show ads or at the very least collect and sell all my driving information to any dirtbag that can rub two nickels together. Connected devices can alter the deal so they will, after all I've lost any leverage against them after I purchased the vehicle.
If the vehicle had an open interface (maybe via CAN bus over the OBD2 port?), then DIY and aftermarket apps become possibilities.
I think legally they would need to require using an app for their back view camera. All new cars in the United States after 2018 need one and I don't see how it would work without using the phone/tablet as a display.
> Noooooooooo! No apps, please!
I wish devices could have web servers and web-based UI rather than thick "apps" that end up rotting when device manufacturers arbitrarily decide that old software won't work anymore (cough, cough-- Apple-- cough, cough).
I know we can't because "security", no end-to-end over the Internet anymore, etc. >sigh<
It seems like we've engineered the networking and software ecosystem to promote disposable "smart" devices. It's almost like somebody profits from it. Hmm...
A locally-hosted web interface would likely be easier to reach a given level of security than a centrally hosted interface, but obtaining and renewing SSL/TLS certificates is a requirement for HTTPS interfaces, and are designed around centralized and frequently updated centrally hosted systems, so it's only really doable with a different protocol.
It would still be easy to have a locally-hosted interface, over any other protocol, with an open-source client that could easily be ported to any future hardware and operating system.
Why, we of course could if we cared. Let the car offer a wifi access point. WPA3 is secure enough, but you can of course have an extra layer of TLS inside it.
For the extra paranoid, a car could have a USB socket that pretends to be a wired network interface, offering DHCP.
Run a web server for car diagnostics and maintenance when connected to this interface. Do it from the comfort of your laptop, or anywhere anytime using your phone. Zero chance of remote exploits, if you set the things correctly on the car side. An ESP32-based system with $5 BOM would suffice to provide this.
> Yes to a simple battery system!
Battery balancing and conditioning does not need to be fancy, and does not need a fancy screen; a couple of LEDs should suffice.
But I'd like my batteries charged competently, recharged efficiently while braking, worn uniformly, and kept at reasonable temperature. It's not hard to do completely automatically and invisibly; a quality electric bike would have it.
In car it requires liquid cooling and from conversations I've had with former Tesla engineers, exquisite control over power quality.
Just ask a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt owner.
> Yes to a simple battery system!
But you realize this will make cold-weather range suck and on-the-road charging suck, right?
Preheating the battery and cabin on "shore power" is something EV buyers just expect at this point because that can consume 2-3kWh of energy (equivalent to 6-10 miles or 10-16 km). That's almost 10% of Slate's range (see below).
Preheating the battery about 10-15 minutes before you arrive at a supercharger is another expected feature. It can increase charge acceptance rate by over 50% (reduce charge time by 1/3).
The 150 mile range is extremely optimistic given the size of the battery and shape of the truck. With just 5% top and bottom buffers, you'd need to achieve over 3.1 miles/kWh... which is the consumption expected of a small aerodynamic sedan. I would bet real money that highway range (at 75 mph) for the small battery is less than 120 miles from 100% to 0.
Highway speeds are worst case scenario so maybe you're right but I doubt it.
Your charge rate acceptance number is surprising to me, I've never seen anything like this in my years of experience designing EV batteries. Preconditioning helps extreme fast charging but isn't necessary for 1-2 C charges at all unless it's very cold out.
There's some caveats to this depending on the exact chemistry but if anything the newer semi solid state NMC cells are even less dependent on this and can charge down to -20C.
I absolutely agree with you on the NO APP thing. I too just want air conditioning knobs and that's it. A truck from 1980 that is an EV that can haul lumber to build a house.
>Noooooooooo! No apps, please! Finally a car not tethered to and dependent on your phone, and we already have our first request to app-ify it!
What car is tied to your phone? A mustang mach-e, for instance, does not require your phone at all. It has a FOB for opening the doors and starting it, you can program the charging times from the in-car screen.
The app is optional, exactly as it should be. This car DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not. With no in-car screen you'll have absolutely no way to control charging which WILL come back to bite you.
>Yes to a simple battery system!
"simple" in this case will add cost. Nearly every EV has the battery as a part of the structural frame of the vehicle for a reason (there are some niche exceptions in China). Nothing is impossible, but I don't see them making the battery easily swappable, while also being structurally sound, and keeping the low price point.
> DESPERATELY is going to need an app when it comes to charging whether you know it or not
I don't own an EV. What for? Do you really need more than a button or two and some leds?
> - Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
Take her car on those trips then. You wouldn't complain you can't take a Miata camping, why would you complain you can't take a 2-seat pickup? camping? The product isn't trying to do everything. It's trying to be the minimum viable truck and be good at it. And just like the purpose built roadster you give up unrelated stuff, like family hauling.
> You wouldn't complain you can't take a Miata camping, why would you complain you can't take a 2-seat pickup? camping?
Because 2-seat pickups used to function this way. It's okay to pine for functionality that has been lost, particularly when a new product like this comes along and gets your hopes up.
Bench seats are almost certainly not coming back in modern low cost vehicles due to side impact safety regulations. They aren't _illegal_ but its extremely difficult to meet those standards with a bench configuration and ironically probably why a budget pickup is less likely to have them. Cutting those corners by not having a bench at all is an easy way to save money in the design.
The hauling and towing is another one. Unfortunately batteries are much heavier than a combustion engine and take away from the total capacity of the vehicle. It's curb weight is 500lbs more than the 1998 Ford Ranger. Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.
The problem with bench seating is not side impact but accidental steering wheel input during hard cornering. In the typical 10 and 2 hand position having your butt move makes your shoulders move, the shoulders make the hands move, and now you’re understeering. Understeering on a mountain road likely means death, and on other roads a ditch or hitting a phone pole.
Skill issue. 100k miles on bench seats in full size sedans to full size pickups, including mountain roads, and nary a problem.
I had no idea bench seats had such an impact to side impact safety regulations. Thanks for that insight!
It also makes sense that the total capacity of the vehicle would diminish, but at the same time, and engine isn't weightless (though neither is an electric motor). If I had 1,500 pounds capacity, then I should be good to go.
The rear seats of almost all new cars are bench seats though. Is side impact safety requirements the same or apply the whole side of the car?
I believe airbag requirements prevent this because the middle seat would require a console mounted airbag where infotainment systems normally live
> Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.
Leaf sprung solid axle is great for doing things on a budget.
But it's probably impossible to put one in a new vehicle because the hiring pool of the automotive industry is too indoctrinated against that sort of stuff at this point.
1. Even though they aren't required to have OBDII, every electric vehicle has some kind of management interface, although manufacturers do often lock out users and third-party mechanics. Slate seems to show an interest in allowing third-part modifications and repairs, so I doubt that will be an issue. No matter what they do, I sure hope it doesn't require me to install their software on my phone or computer to access it, although I have no problem with them providing it.
2. Only very early first-gen electric cars, like the Nissan Leaf and Smart Fortwoo, were shipped without effective battery management. There's no reason any manufacturer would do that now, and I doubt any battery supplier would want to work with them, if they tried.
3. The Slate truck will be more capable. It has 201 hp and 195 lb-ft of torque, significantly outperforming the 117 hp and 149 lb-ft of torque in the standard-model 1998 Ranger. How they quantify hauling and towing capacity may have changed since the 90's, but you can rest assured that it is more powerful.
4. Designing an optional bench seat would be easy, but getting approval to sell them would be expensive, due to current safety regulations. This could likely only happen once sales volume is large enough to justify the long approval process for that variation.
Number four is likely the only holdup. If the SUV accessories are easy to install, it may still be worth considering, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a long process for their first generation. Most auto manufacturers can't design an easy-to-install hard-top, on their first try.
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
I get that cars have these, but my PHEV (which I don't often charge) lost its app when Ford pulled the plug as 3G was sunsetting and I don't think I'm missing anything. If there's anything wrong with the car, it can show the check engine light (or whatever it's called when there's no engine).
> - Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning.
Seems like a little early to declare this on a vaporware product? I don't think you need a screen or an app to have reasonable battery conditioning?
Anyway, I would love small trucks to return. I had a 2007 Ranger and I have a 2003 S-10, and there's nothing in the US new vehicle market that fits the small truck niche anymore. CAFE standards can't be met with a small footprint truck, so we only get large footprint trucks. But EV trucks don't have efficiency standards, so maybe we'll see the niche again. (I think you could maybe hit the CAFE standards with a single cab ranger and a hybrid drive train, but I also think automakers prefer to sell luxury trucks rather than base model trucks)
This is why it's so hard for companies to introduce stripped-down or small models of anything: People will tell you how much they want it, but as soon as they see it they realize they actually miss something from the models that are already out there.
It happens with small phones (iPhone mini) to laptops and cars. There are comments throughout this thread claiming that everyone would be buying small sedans if not for CAFE regulations, but we have plenty of small sedans on the market that aren't selling well.
It always comes down to market demand. The big companies have market demand figured out better than many give them credit for, even if it's not exactly the product you want.
I'm grateful they don't make truly stripped down models of cars anymore, because those were always what would end up in the rental car inventory. Every time I'd rent a car, it felt like I was taking a step back in time.
Now all rental cars actually have some reasonable set of features, without you having to pay for any up-sells.
So the rest of the economy should suffer to subsidize your rental.
> Lack of a mobile app…
At the 6 mins and 40 seconds timestamp on this video (https://youtu.be/cq1qEjwSYkw?t=400) he shows the car app that will tell you current range, etc
I'd recommend folks watch the video – it's fascinating.
The truck gets OTA updates through your phone and not some LTE modem. It doesn't have one. They moved all car management including OBD-like functionality to the phone, too, which I think is awesome.
This is how I want the interior design philosophy of manual controls to be digitized – with digital control. I'd pay $10k more for physical buttons, though.
Only if the phone app is open source, or at least the api, alllll of it, is public so no one needs the default app nor is limited by it.
Alternatively, maybe the overall simplicity will mean that a 3rd party full computer replacement would be feasible even without any official help from the manufacturer.
I mean yes, but also this is a complex new prototype vehicle. I can assume that there may be mistakes/ non ideal things that they only catch post production.
As long as the fixes are a long the lines as bios updates (not required per say, but may fix bugs or edge cases) then that seems reasonable.
Oh sweet. Delicious. Very reassuring. Was really hoping this thing was going to be device agnostic.
My 2015 car had 3g "smart" features that no longer work since 3g has been sunset in the US. Awesome to see forward thinking of a smart feature-set that can be updated with a module you'll likley already have an upgrade path for.
There's a difference between phone-dependent and phone-augmented. I don't know the details of the truck, but I think a happy medium would be for an app to exist to augment the truck's abilities and allow at-home updates, but to not require the app or phone to just use the truck (even for long periods; i.e. you could go forever without using the app and the truck will just keep working in its current state).
Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog.
Ah, there's the problem. You have violated Pauli's "spouse/dog size exclusion principle". You need to either have a dog that can sleep curled up on the spouse's lap during the trip, or a dog big enough that the spouse can sleep curled up on the dog.
Bench seats also aren't a panacea, I still feel the burn of my dog's stink eye when then girlfriend was prompted to center of bench seat and dog on the side.
This sounds like the feature creep tesla always struggled with.
also, no mobile app? that is a feature.
The appeal of this vehicle is that it IS like your 1998 ranger, not: mobile app = data collection = monetized vehicle = mobile upgrades = basically all the things that are bad with technology.
Honestly, all these "monetized experience" companies forget that (like matt ridley's rational optimist says) with trust, trade is unlimited.
> I occasionally need the hauling capacity [of a] 1998 Ford Ranger
Then rent a suitable vehicle for the occasion.
- Your example Ford Ranger[1] seems to have towing capacity of 6,000lbs (~2700kg), and a payload capacity of 1,260lbs (~570kg).
- Compare that to the worst model Toyota Hilux[2], which has a payload of up to 1240kg, and can tow 2500kg. These can be rented for like $65 AUD per day (~$40 USD).
[1] https://www.kbb.com/ford/ranger/1998/specs/ [2] https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2019-toyota-hilux-wo...
> a cheap and easy to replace battery pack.
Battery expansion is a user installable option. It might not be as easy to replace the main battery, but the expansion battery will be, and will make it easier to install newer tech down the road, etc.
This truck has 150 miles of range at 100% charge with no weight. I like the idea of the truck, but you won’t be doing “glamping” with it and you probably won’t be using the battery for anything but driving
I think you are way off on the target demographics. The idea is to have a car that is minimalist in nature, which does mean:
- no app - no bells - no whistles
Slate.. I will add one more thing. If you will make it spy on me like all the other new cars now, its a nogo either. I might as well just get an old car from 90s... which amusingly will still work for what I need it to do ( move some stuff around ).
Same, though the company trying to reuse the International Scout name got my attention. Physical controls and an on board gas generator.
I grew up with an (already old, and by the time we got rid of it years later, hilariously rusted-out and with tires containing more fix-a-flat than air) Scout and their announcement ad for the electric one hit a bullseye with me.
I don't really do new cars (too expensive) but damn... if I had enough cash to not give a fuck, they'd have been well on their way to selling me one just with that ad. Really well done.
I also Love the direction of this truck. It would be nice if they installed speakers…two door and a small sub and just left a space in the dash for a standard radio of your choice. Or at the very least cut out the spaces and run wire so installing a proper stereo isn’t a nightmare. I don’t need “infotainment” but I do consider a radio with decent sound to enjoy the ride standard equipment.
The subheading said Digital Detox. Means no App. For apps, get a Muskmobile .. the ones running with high beams on all the time.
It's actually not required for EVs - Tesla has started to drop it from recent models. I bet these guys would omit it as well to save money.
Or use it because using an existing standard makes everything that needs to interface with it cheaper/easier.
From the FAQ:
Beginning in 2026, you’ll be able to find charging stations using the upcoming Slate App.
it doesn't explicitly answer whether the app will satisfy your criteria, but there'll be something.
There is an app - see about halfway down this page https://www.slate.auto/en/charging
> Lack of a mobile app.
OVMS was originally developed for the Tesla Roadster and then adapted to the Leaf, ...
> - Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
God, please, no. Why on Gods green earth would I want that? Stop doing this to stuff. It is an abomination. I am sure many others echoed this point but holy crap. No. I am all for technology. But I do not want some tracker in my car. Apps are anathema to my freedom.
Toyota already has the Toyota Hilux Champ @ 12k USD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hNYwTVPUkQ
The Japanese companies have been making kei trucks for 70 years. They've never been sold directly in the US and never will.
They don't want our chicken
https://www.autoblog.com/news/why-the-chicken-tax-still-cont...
I read that as comparing it to one of Ford's cheap cars from the 70's. Which would be a low bar to meet.
>Lack of a mobile app.
FFS, do you want your dishwasher tethered to the cloud too?
Your passion is something that market researches for this company should salivate over, especiall from a curated forum like HN.
Unforuntatley, this company and this project are VC expenditure "throw away projects", made to fail.
No motor vehicle satisfying NHTSA can be made in america for below 20k cost of materiels, nevermind msrp. This article and the company are pitching that this is "realistic" due to cutting costs of paint, radios. Which...are pennies on the dollar compared to what satifys US road requiremnents for EV; safety, suspension, manufacturer support, parts availability, reparability. Are they skimping there too? will this 2025 electric vehicle have LEAF springs?
20k is the pre-production estimates. When in history has that not balloned especially for car platforms made in USA? What will a made in USA replacement lead acid accessory battery cost? 3k?
Once this goes over 40k (which, is guaranteed. A mazda miata which is as bare bones as it gets, old technology, is still 32k base, and thats made in a cheaper labor market.), the funding will back off, and all the R and D money wasted.
It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform. Sounds like you can mount your own infotainment system. Just an electric motor, battery, and chassis, and the rest is up to you. Isn't this what we've been asking for?
Yea, it's pretty exciting. I'd like to see how much more they could strip out to reduce the price and still have a viable commercial product. I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car. Then again, I haven't bought a car new since the 90s, so I'm probably just an old fart who hasn't grokked what things cost today. I still remember the day when the base-model Corolla started costing more than $9999 and I thought the world was coming to an end.
EDIT: Yep, I'm just old. Another commenter linked to a "10 cheapest new cars" list and there seems to be a price floor of around $20K. No major manufacturer seems capable of making one cheaper!
According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics[1], $9999 in 1995 is equivalent to $21,275.25 today, so it's a pretty spot on price for a barebones car.
Except, with advances in computational design and engineering, manufacturing automation, and moving to plastic for the body I would expect a reduction in price, in real terms. Not impressed.
The average price of new cars sold in the US last year was nearly $50k. The manufacturers make more money from expensive cars than cheap cars, and people keep buying them, so that's what they sell. Before they canceled the Fit, Honda was selling almost 10 times as many of the larger CR-V each year.
You can find numerous new cars for sale in Mexico for under $15k USD.[0] Even Europe has several new cars under €20k.[1] These are the same manufacturers we have here, but lower cost models that are only sold in lower-income countries.
[0] https://compra.autofact.com.mx/blog/comprar-carro/mercado/au...
Most of those models are not real. They exist, but they don't make many of the base model and if you attempt to purchase one, it is a 4-18 month lead time.
I was in the market in Mexico last year, just looking for a cheap city car with a warranty for when I am there. I test drove half the cars on that list, the other half I immediately eliminated after sitting in the driver's seat for under a minute.
You can think of those base models like MSRP GPUs right now. They exist on paper, but good luck actually getting one for MSRP.
In the end, I didn't purchase any of those and got a two year old certified preowned vehicle with the top trim and comfortable seats from a dealer with a warranty for about $3000USD more than the cheapest actually available model of those linked in your post.
I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car.
You're not even living in the past. Our 20 year old Scion xB cost us $20K out the door new (granted, that's with most of the paltry list of options added, $15K base). And that was a cheap car at the time, Toyota marketing to "the kids".
The last time $20K was "a high price" for a new car was probably before most HN folk were born.
According to this, there is only one new car model of any kind selling for under $20K in the US these days
This article is missing at least the Mitsubishi Mirage - the 2024 model year still seems to be available for 17k in the base trim?
> $20K still seems to be a high price for a car
Keep in mind this price is before the USA federal tax credit. So we're potentially talking about a $12,500 car. And consider inflation.
After federal tax credit, ergo $27K.
(Hat tip to @vaidhy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794867)
That's with federal incentive and likely before they factored in the tariffs. Those 500 parts aren't all coming from US. I wouldn't expect any usable version of it to be below 30k once it's actually available.
I'm sure you can get on the waiting list (for a lead time of 3-40 years) or buy it from a reseller for $70k. Problem solved.
This is an $27k car, with $7.5k rebate, so much for the unfairly competing Chinese. The MG4 is £22500 in the UK before tax, which is about $30k in USD, and that's a full-featured 5 door car, with double the range.
I do applaud the philosphy of cheap and barebones, and easily moddable, but my two cents is that trim is not the thing that's making cars expensive to make.
Is it? They show speakers mounted in the front as a "soundbar". Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
> I'd imagine that people will come up with a mountable radio kit, like the DIN format radios of old, but with less restrictions.
I am hoping like hell this ends up being the case. Give me power, a place to put my own stuff and some details on the CAN bus and leave me to it.
I do not want to pay a premium for your slow, locked down, buggy / seldom-updated touch screen.
Yes, they have a nice storage bin right behind where you put the optional tablet mount, but the only option I've seen for that bin is a speaker kit. I don't want a tablet mount or speakers in the bin. I want the left side of the bin (above the controls) to be a double DIN mount.
So mount speakers all around the vehicle? The idea is: customize it yourself.
> Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
No, because they knew what they were getting into when they bought this truck. And I'm sure there will be a dozen DIY ways to add a more traditional sound system.
> a comprehensive active safety system that includes everything from automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection to automatic high beams
No stereo, but luckily they still found space for a few DNN accelerators that will slam on the brakes randomly when getting false detections. Likely still has a 4G uplink and all the modern car cancer to make sure they can datamine their clients as much as possible and offset the subsidized purchase cost.
Worst of both worlds?
Another comment said there is no cellular modem; updates come through the app using a phone.
That's exemplary if true, though it's a bit hard to believe.
I like it. My wife runs a riding academy and we use a Honda Fit the way some people would use a pickup truck: we can fit 10 bales of wood shavings in the back. [1] We’re dreading when it fails because they don’t make the fit anymore and compact hatchbacks seem to be on the way out. Recent experiences have made me a bit of a Buick enthusiast and I can see driving a 2005-ish sedan except that I won’t get those sawdust bales into the trunk. We are also thinking of fitting in EV into the fleet, so far the used Nissan Leaf has been the main contender but this is a pickup truck I could get into.
[1] We were profitable from day one because we didn’t buy a $80,000 pickup on day one the way everybody else does.
The Honda Fit is great. You can probably squeeze an extra decade out if you're willing to swap out the motor or transmission (used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable), and if you're using it heavily then you have the advantage that most cara on the market take less abuse, so you can maybe grab a decade beyond that by picking up somebody else's used Fit when you're done repairing yours.
>You can probably squeeze an extra decade out if you're willing to swap out the motor or transmission
In many parts of the country (I'm Canadian, I assume the same for the US) the body and undercarriage are going to rot before the drivetrain goes.
This is the issue with mine here in Minnesota. Rust is the car killer.
> used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable
Where are you finding a 100k mile Honda Fit for $3k? Before I bought my current daily driver, Honda Fits were on my list to look out for and in the central NJ area I never saw one in decent condition around that mileage for less than $5k. Even looking now I see people trying to part out theirs for $2k or looking for $4k for a 200k mile one. I messaged someone on FB Marketplace that had a 2013 with 65k miles on it to try and bring down their $11k asking to $8k and just got ignored.
NJ is probably on the higher end of the market but the deviation can't be that big.
Sorry I wasn't clear. You can get a motor with 100k miles from a totaled car for $3k, including the labor to replace it.
To your actual question, I bought mine (2008, manual) in 2018 for $5k with 100k miles in The Bay, and it took about a month of waiting for a good deal to crop up. I've put another 100k on it without issue and plan to drive it a long time. Inflation and the chip shortage have roughly kept up with depreciation, so I'm currently seeing some good options in the $6k range and similarly expect that $5k is around the bottom of what you can pay for a nice vehicle with 100k miles on it.
Also, deviations can absolutely be that big. It's more prevalent at the top of the market, but there are big differences in Subarus and Civics, for example, in different parts of the country, even in the sub-$5k range. It's often worth a flight and driving back to purchase a car (if you value your time at $0 or have other things to do while you're there).
Japanese cars, particularly cars that have been orphaned, keep their value at high mileage.
If I had to get a high mileage car in a hurry in upstate NY with some expectation that my acquisition + repair costs would be reason I'd go looking for a 2005 Buick. Maybe half of that is getting older, the other half is that my son drives a '96 Buick which has needed some creative maintenance but has been rock solid reliable after a flurry of work where we replaced aging parts.
I also love this design and I'm happy that someone is doing it. I think it's unlike anything else on the market.
But, they won't necessarily be competing against other new things on the market. My wife also rides horses and we got a $5000 20 year old F250 which is very basic but has been bulletproof, and it can tow. I imagine old, basic trucks, either cheap domestic ones or kei trucks will be what this thing competes against.
I hope it does well. This is the kind of design thinking that the auto industry needs.
Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like. But when it dies you do have options - maybe a Ford Transit Connect or a Metris.
All micro cargo van providers have stopped building them. The Transit Connect, Metris, Promaster City and NV200 are all now discontinued. The VW Caddy isn't sent to the states.
There are rumors that they will make a cargo van based on the Maverick but they make them in Mexico, and with the tariff situation I'm not sure if they will be going through with that anymore.
All of the perfect compacts and hatchbacks are slowly disappearing, and solid work trucks have been replaced with $60k+ fake trucks that will melt their gaskets with crappy turbos and can't even fit a piece of 2x4 in the back. There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized. Almost nobody is serving them right now.
> All micro cargo van providers have stopped building them. The Transit Connect, Metris, Promaster City and NV200 are all now discontinued.
This is an entirely american problem, because the small van is largely dead in the US. They're doing fine elsewhere.
The Metris is still manufactured (as the Vito, or V260 in China), and is not the smallest model which is the Citan (based on the Kangoo, with its second gen based on kangoo III in 2021).
The Promaster City (Fiat Doblo) still exists, as a rebadged Berlingo since 2022.
The NV 200 was replaced by the NV 250 (a rebadged Kangoo II) in 2019, which was then replaced by the Townstar (a rebadged Kangoo III) in late 2021. There's also the Docker / Express below that (which descends from the Logan MCV / Van).
And the Transit Connect was replaced by the Caddy (rebadged), but Ford dropped its original plans of a US release.
> There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized.
Apparently not sufficiently so (or with a consistent enough need) that they can be catered to. Or at least not so that you couldn't make more money selling them pavement princesses.
To give credit where credit is due, the ~$25k Ford Maverick was a decent step towards "enough" vehicle for many people, while minimizing cost.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a64351746/2025-ford-mav...
And definitely went the other way from the industry.
To be fair, a lot of farms need a big-ass pickup truck because they are always towing horses to go to shows or trailheads. We have 70 beautiful acres and a network of trails my wife built that were inspired by Het Vondelpark in Amsterdam. [1] If everything goes right we trailer in a horse once and never have to trailer it out although some horses don't fit in or have to go to the vet.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vondelpark
The Fit, however, is really genius. It's got the utility of an SUV in the body of a compact. I can't believe Honda's excuse that it wasn't selling -- in my area it is a running gag that if you have a blue Fit somebody will park another blue Fit next to you at the supermarket or that it makes a great getaway car, if somebody catches you doing donuts in their lawn you can say it musta been somebody elese.
If the grocery store parking lot is any indication, farming is the number one profession in America. All farmers can have their big trucks and still regulate out the other 99% of the 22-foot monsters used to commute to offices.
Something I also only really appreciated after spending more time out plains-west in the US, it's dangerous to drive small vehicles because of the average distances and abundance of larger wildlife.
When you're regularly driving 2+ hours one way to a town and a random pronghorn appears in the middle of the road, at night, when you're doing 85 mph... you want to be in something that can take the impact.
If you’re not knowledgeable about cars, getting a 20 year-old truck is probably just not an option. Sometimes it’s totally fine, sometimes it craps out and needs a whole engine replaced!
My sister got a 2003 subaru last year for about $3,000. The oil leaked out while she was driving, and the whole engine sorta melted together and just totally died.
So I’d say for non car people, this Slate truck isn’t competing with old cars, if only on the basis of potential hidden catastrophes.
> Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like
Close. A bit of work on the rear hatch dimensions so that you could get 4'x8' sheet goods in there, as was possible on the 1980s Honda Civic.
Also, just a teensy-weensy bit more power, please. Ours struggles even on moderate hills here on the edge of the Sangres de Cristo (southern Rockies).
Otherwise, all hail the Fit/Jazz, car of the future past.
I'm also a Honda Fit fan. Technically, it is still made, just not sold in the North American market. It's had a new generation come out since they stopped selling it here, matching the new Civics' style.
The closest Honda offerings are probably the Civic Hatchback (lower roof, but the seats still fold down) and the HR-V, which is basically a Fit on stilts with more weight and slightly less room.
I went with a hatchback Civic Sport Touring to replace my Fit (which has 210K miles on it and is still reliable, though I'm passing it on to someone else) and my girlfriend is about to try the HR-V to replace her (newer) Fit that was just lost in an accident, since she needs more roof height for dog crates.
Would a used Metris cargo work? We have the passenger version and it’s excellent. True 1000kg load rating, and the cargo version can be had extremely cheaply.
We also have our eye on this truck, but with less urgency since our van does everything we could want.
The Telo MT1 also has us eyeing it…
The rear seat legroom is absurdly good for a car that size. It's been our only car for the past 10 years for a family of 2 adults and 2 kids. Zero issues outside of regular maintenance. Bought for $18k new in 2014 (2015 model). Good times.
The Fit is a wonderful car. I'd buy one if I could find one for a decent price, but 40k miles 2020 (last year for them in the US) still runs around $20k at dealers and Carvana! For five grand more, I can get a brand new Corolla Hatchback, which is what I'll likely do, but I'd pick up a Fit without thinking if I could find a good price.
Most small SUVs should be fine though. You switched between wood shavings and hay bales, but I reliably fit 7 hay bales in a 2005 Saturn Vue (wife always managed to get 9 in there), which means that 10 bales of shavings should not be a problem since they're much smaller.
TBH, I think a minivan would make it even easier.
I run a Honda Pilot for this reason. With the seats folded I can haul 8’ lumber or 10’ PVC pipe inside the vehicle, no tie down needed. If I need to tow, I have a 5,000LB tow rating so most anything around the property is possible with a good trailer for a couple thousand extra.
I bought reasonably used, spent about 30k instead of 50k+ for a comparable pickup truck which lacks the ability to haul 7-8 passengers when needed.
Also has the benefit of being one of the most “Made in America” vehicles out there, #3 IIRC.
I use a 2018 Subaru Forester to move stuff like this, with the seats folded flat the cargo space is decent. You can add some cargo boxes on the back trailer hitch as well.
The dream is a Pacifica minivan - they make a hybrid version.
how do you haul hoss though? i would imagine you then outsource to professional hauling services? what do you do for vet visits, when it's not a farm call?
Just pay somebody. In a rural area there are a lot of farmers with a big truck and a trailer and it costs less than the monthly payment on a big truck.
i'll be honest, if the rest of your profile wasn't at least somewhat corraborative, i'd say you're larping, but what you're saying is at least irresponsible. most farmers in rural area have livestock trailers, not horse trailers, hauling for hire (including if you're hauling for students at your barn or whatever) requires CDL and a bunch of other documentation, which you're not typically going to have as a farmer, and more documentation if you're hauling interstate (my vet is across a border), but would i even trust random joe dirt to haul for me? i've hired professionals to transport horses, and i have a handful of people who could haul in a bind and unlicensed but i wouldn't rely on them to be available in an emergency. last year i had to haul an old mare, she was colic, she laid down in the field, covered in sweet, and had to be put down at the vet, but overall it was less than an hour from load to vet. if i had to rely on "farmers", that would prolong her agony. now i just train, so i don't usually have freak accidents, but at riding barns, with students, on trail, something happens from time to time. riding barns i work with tell me horror stories all the time. i'll give you a benefit of the doubt, maybe your wife knows the details, and ithaca being horse country, maybe she's got a friendly neighbor on speed dial, but then you're at best outsourcing your responsibilities to someone else. what other things you can save on to make your operation profitable, at the expense of safety and well being of hoss?
As a car audio enthusiast, the biggest obstacle to putting a system into a new high-tech car is bypassing the deeply-embedded infotainment system while retaining decent aesthetics and steering wheel controls. The idea of getting an electric drivetrain and new-car safety with a 90's-style blank canvas for audio is amazing.
I hope that the noise isolation and intended speaker mounting locations are good!
Do you have any proof or even a hint of a reason that this will be the case? Or is this just nonsense?
Their FAQs even state: > Built-in infotainment systems raise a car’s price, and they become outdated quickly and have high failure rates.
It seems unlikely that a company saying this will throw in a $4,000 infotainment system in a $20,000 vehicle.
I read this as the parent complaining about other car manufacturers selling you crappy default stereos so that you'll upgrade, not that Slate is excluding a stereo on this truck to upsell you.
In fact, I would be rather surprised if you could buy $4,000 worth of stereo equipment for this car, given their promo materials seem to include a $100 bluetooth speaker below an iPhone.
The parent comment was about the general trend for car manufacturers to do this, not the manufacturer in question.
Its a cool car, but forgive me for not getting Lucy-Footballed again by an electric car startup claiming to be able to "change the game" while never actually getting any cars sold.
Yeah, the completely unrealistic timeline, price point, and the fact that the company is only now looking to hire engineers sets off my "fun looking product that will never be available for sale" alarms. I don't think they even have a prototype built yet, everything you see is just a render. They have not even started planning how to start building the factory.
The price point is assuming the R&D is already paid off, the factory is built, the supply lines are optimized, and they're building a million of these things every year. History has shown that you can't start off with a cheap mass produced car as your only product because mass production requires way too much startup capital. The success stories started with hand built extremely expensive cars that were used to pay down R&D costs and keep the company afloat while they built the factory for the mass production model.
About the only way I see this happening is if Bezos goes all in and dumps an outrageous amount of money into getting the production line running knowing that he won't see a return for at least a decade or more, and I don't think he's quite that generous. Also this assumes that cheap lightweight powerful batteries become widely available in the next couple of years.
>I don't think they even have a prototype built yet
https://insideevs.com/news/757237/slate-ev-spotted-los-angel...
https://insideevs.com/news/757649/slate-auto-truck-suv-revea...
In rebuttal:
- "This doesn't seem to be a working vehicle. The Autopian's David Tracy climbed underneath and didn't see any powertrain or proper suspension components, indicating this is a non-functional show car."
> The Autopian's David Tracy climbed underneath and didn't see any powertrain or proper suspension components, indicating this is a non-functional show car.
Source: own a small electric car company
My take: with financing this timeline (end of 2026 for first deliveries) is totally doable. The truck is extremely simple. Extremely. There is nothing exotic about the drivetrain or suspension; probably the hardest part was getting the plastic body panel stuff set up.
Second hardest part was designing for simplicity. At some point that part of the process will stop and they will ship.
Price: Probably too low. Manufacturing capacity: who knows? Deliverable: for sure. This is totally deliverable with today’s engineers and today’s parts.
Not to mention that it's actually more like a $30,000 vehicle because the headline is pre-pricing in rebates.
Absolutely love this. Love brands taking the SLC (simple, lovable, complete: https://longform.asmartbear.com/slc/) approach - minimalism is an absolute delight in a world where everything is crammed with unnecessary/unused feature bloat.
(That said, I'd love a stereo - even if it was just a built in bluetooth speaker/aux-in, which feels like a perfect compromise!)
Good news, it can be added.
> A Bluetooth speaker holder that fits under the climate knobs is available, but there is also a soundbar that can be installed in the dashboard storage compartment.
https://americancarsandracing.com/2025/04/25/best-accessorie...
Technically you could zip tie or duct tape an Amazon Basics Bluetooth speaker to just anything even a lawnmower. This looks like just one step above that.
It’s a shame they didn’t add a DIN head unit slot and throw a plastic cover over it, preinstall install speaker wires. Anyone could then DIY a real stereo for less than they are probably selling the Bluetooth speaker/soundbar.
Or even just conduit between all the common places we would need to run cables.
or just pre-installed dashboard speakers with an AUX input and single volume+power knob. very cheap off the shelf parts. would save customers from weird bluetooth speaker setups, and would support a wide variety of devices – from iPods to tablets to pocket radios.
no speakers and low range are the only two things I'd quibble about. and maybe the price, seems too high for what you're getting.
I LOVE it! THIS is the kind of truck I'd be looking at to replace my 1998 Ford Ranger.
Here is what could be potential deal-breakers:
- Lack of a mobile app. Minimalist design is great, but I still want an app to manage charging and be alerted to any vehicle issues.
- Lack of good charge management and battery conditioning. Either that, or a cheap and easy to replace battery pack. I'd really like both!
- Comparable hauling and towing capacity to the 1998 Ford Ranger. Those numbers aren't exactly impressive, but I do use the truck as a truck, and I occasionally need the hauling capacity (weight).
- Bucket seats. I need a bench seat so I can take my wife and dog. Think weekend glamping trips. Picture 8 shows a bucket seat. It doesn't look like that would work.
If anyone from Slate is reading this, this is how I'm looking at this truck. FYI, I'll be comparing this to the Ford Maverick.