Comment by fishpen0

Comment by fishpen0 2 days ago

19 replies

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Bench seats are almost certainly not coming back in modern low cost vehicles due to side impact safety regulations. They aren't _illegal_ but its extremely difficult to meet those standards with a bench configuration and ironically probably why a budget pickup is less likely to have them. Cutting those corners by not having a bench at all is an easy way to save money in the design.

The hauling and towing is another one. Unfortunately batteries are much heavier than a combustion engine and take away from the total capacity of the vehicle. It's curb weight is 500lbs more than the 1998 Ford Ranger. Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.

hinkley 2 days ago

The problem with bench seating is not side impact but accidental steering wheel input during hard cornering. In the typical 10 and 2 hand position having your butt move makes your shoulders move, the shoulders make the hands move, and now you’re understeering. Understeering on a mountain road likely means death, and on other roads a ditch or hitting a phone pole.

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  • f001 2 days ago

    Steering position has been taught as 9 and 3 for a long time now… but still fair point. You can add a bit of alcantara to the seat to help you stay in place though. My RDX has it for the sporty-ish trim and it helps.

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    • hinkley 2 days ago

      It’s never 9 and 3 in a turn though is it. It’s more like 8 and 1. Or just 1.

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    • krupan 2 days ago

      It's actually more like 8 and 4 or even 7 and 5 to keep your hands and arms out of the way of the airbag

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      • hinkley 2 days ago

        And then your problem is oversteering which puts you into oncoming traffic.

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  • morepedantic a day ago

    Skill issue. 100k miles on bench seats in full size sedans to full size pickups, including mountain roads, and nary a problem.

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taylodl 2 days ago

I had no idea bench seats had such an impact to side impact safety regulations. Thanks for that insight!

It also makes sense that the total capacity of the vehicle would diminish, but at the same time, and engine isn't weightless (though neither is an electric motor). If I had 1,500 pounds capacity, then I should be good to go.

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Braxton1980 2 days ago

The rear seats of almost all new cars are bench seats though. Is side impact safety requirements the same or apply the whole side of the car?

I believe airbag requirements prevent this because the middle seat would require a console mounted airbag where infotainment systems normally live

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  • hinkley 2 days ago

    I suspect GP is misremembering why bench seating went away. Bench seats for the driver can lead to steering errors which can result in crashes.

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    • Braxton1980 2 days ago

      There are other reasons too.

      1. Cars that offered manual options needed a center console. Japanese imports would always have a manual version, even if that version wasn't in the US. Same with European.

      The only one alternative is a column manual shifter which is horrible to use.

      You couldn't use a forward floor shifter unless you want to shift between the legs of the person in the middle.

      There are dash mounted shifters but would probably hit the middle person's knees. Not sure since these are rare and usually European (fiat multipla) /Japanese

      2. At a point a US safety requirement was all front passengers needed either an airbag or a automatic shoulder seatbelt, basically it ran along the door with a motor when the door closed.

      Automatic shoulder belts were cheaper than airbags so manf usually picked that option but don't work with middle seats since they need a door/column for the rails.

      3. Minor, but, additional side safety rules increased door thickness. Both sides pushed in more making it uncomfortable. Fine in rear but front, as you mentioned, is a danger to steering.

      4. Smaller import cars due to gas crisis in 70s that US companies (eventually) copied that combined with reason (3) made the middle seat basically useless

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      • rpcope1 2 days ago

        > 1. Cars that offered manual options needed a center console. Japanese imports would always have a manual version, even if that version wasn't in the US. Same with European.

        Maybe in cars, but even when trucks still had a manual option, the S10/Sonoma as well as the full size GMT400 had a bench seat in the 90s/00s and a floor manual shifter, and it all worked pretty well. None of them shift like a Porsche, but especially in the full size trucks the center of the bench wasn't too bad if you weren't a large person, and they're generally pretty pleasant to drive.

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        • Braxton1980 2 days ago

          You're right though that a truck could offer a floor shifter manual or a column auto because it's an easy conversion.

          European cars did have the 4 on the floor but that's dated and these didn't have an automatic for the US (afaik).

          I'm looking at the period when bench seats died though. A major change in car sizes and the dominance of imports.

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      • hinkley 2 days ago

        > You couldn't use a forward floor shifter unless you want to shift between the legs of the person in the middle.

        I’ve been in one of those. And I may or may not have been the child stuck sitting there. Mercifully only a couple times, because I was horrified. It felt like a child had the power to get us into an accident. 0/10 would not recommend.

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potato3732842 2 days ago

> Same thing, budget vehicle means budget suspension, so its weight lowers the capacity instead of increasing the cost of the suspension.

Leaf sprung solid axle is great for doing things on a budget.

But it's probably impossible to put one in a new vehicle because the hiring pool of the automotive industry is too indoctrinated against that sort of stuff at this point.

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