Comment by m_a_g
Comment by m_a_g 12 hours ago
Bankrolling a neo-nazi party (AfD) and almost the Reform Party is not shit posting.
Comment by m_a_g 12 hours ago
Bankrolling a neo-nazi party (AfD) and almost the Reform Party is not shit posting.
God I'm so tired of these pathetic attempts at evading the point. No, it's not against the principles of democracy to fight back against someone trying to destabilize your democracy. The tolerance paradox applies here, Elon is begging, daring the UK to do something, and all is fair in love and war.
AfD is not a neo-nazi party. They are one of the oldest parties and the second largest party in Germany, and there is a "pro-democracy" move to ban them and attack their members. They are conservative nationalists but so what? The whole point of any political party is supposed to be to look out for the country itself and its constituents first. I'm so sick and tired of liberals acting like it is some kind of ultimate racist evil to be against excessive immigration. I'm also really tired of having to be concerned with European politics. But for whatever reason, most Western countries have similar issues with bad policies.
> They are one of the oldest parties
Founded 6 February 2013; 11 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany
[Granted, many of the current political parties in Germany are from '45 so also not that old, but one of the oldest parties is a strange claim]
Perhaps they meant that AfD is a spiritual successor to one of the oldest, even pre '45 parties? You know, the one with similar ideas.
AfD is not the oldest, or even that old of a party. And they absolutely are neo Nazis. Not sure if you're thinking about another party, or just sympathetic to their garbage worldview, but ignorance isn't an excuse to carry water for Nazis.
My bad, it indeed seems to not be the oldest. But it is certainly not brand new or unpopular. Can you give me evidence that they are Nazis? I don't mean finding a few Nazis that happen to be members, I mean proof that their platform is the Nazi program. As I'm sure you are aware, the Nazi party is banned in Germany and even displaying Nazi symbology can get you in trouble there.
> I don't mean finding a few Nazis that happen to be members
Ah the few local Nazis that just happened to stumble upon the membership, while the rest of them were just fine with it. Reminds me of the good old "you're not marching with Nazis, you are a Nazi".
> one of the oldest parties and the second largest party in Germany
What? They were founded in 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany
As for being "nationalist conservative":
> In January 2017, Höcke in a speech stated, in reference to the Berlin Holocaust Memorial, that "Germans are the only people in the world who plant a monument of shame in the heart of the capital" and criticized this "laughable policy of coming to terms with the past"
^ that is just one of the rather mild things that are just a constant in that milieu.
His statement is hyperbolic and perhaps strikes some people as insensitive, but what do you think it means to come to terms with something like that? A memorial doesn't seem unreasonable (though I have not seen the memorial), but what is unreasonable is expecting people to hang their heads low forever and sell out their own interests in contrition for that was done by a small number of despots in their country three or more generations ago. Most Germans even at the time had no idea that the Holocaust was happening, and were horrified to find out just like the rest of the world. What if the administration of your country decided to kill millions of people somewhere for whatever reason? It already has on multiple occasions, and is there any memorial for the victims anywhere in the capital for each occasion?
Dredging up the past might be educational or enlightening, but in some cases it inspires people who don't know each other to hate each other or else to become hypersensitive to offenses by other groups. Also, being against immigration is not bad. Some cultures just don't work well together and can't be mixed, like oil and water. When a situation like that is identified, then it should be talked about and reversed if necessary to PREVENT violence.
> what is unreasonable is expecting people to hang their heads low forever and sell out their own interests in contrition
What is that even in reference to? The AfD is fully neoliberal, they're the last to talk about selling out.
> for that was done by a small number of despots in their country three or more generations ago. Most Germans even at the time had no idea that the Holocaust was happening
Let's just accept that as face value: and then we found out, and decided this must NEVER EVER happen again. Not "not more than in one of three generations". And that requires teaching each new generation everything of what happened there. If you don't have the stamina and intellectual honesty for that, there's the exit.
And "a small number of despots" didn't commit the Holocaust, and the Holocaust wasn't the only crime the Nazis committed, "just" the one that shocked even people who had accepted all sorts of other atrocities -- as long as they thought it might mean they would win.
It's not a negative thing to teach, just like it's not negative to teach Americans about slavery. That is what happened, you cannot change it. And you cannot have dignity while denying the truth, period. Not ever. You can have some armband to identify with, but it doesn't make you more dignified, it just sets the real you aside to gather dust, while you stare at the armband.
> Dredging up the past might be educational or enlightening
If you use electricity, is that also "dredging up inventions from the past"? It's not negative to know what happened, and where this mindless identification with "sides" and slogans can lead to. It's a discovery we made and will keep, considering the price it came with.
> but in some cases it inspires people who don't know each other to hate each other or else to become hypersensitive to offenses by other groups.
Now that's quite the trick: teaching about how propaganda and peer pressure enabled persecution at such giant scale might "inspire people who don't know each other to hate each other"? How so? Who exactly would be hated, by whom, by Germans learning about and staying aware of German history?
> Some cultures just don't work well together and can't be mixed, like oil and water.
Yeah, like people from Hamburg and Bavaria, right? What cultures are you talking about? What is "the" German culture, what cultures are compatible with it, based on what properties, and what cultures aren't, based on what properties? Because I only ever hear the generic adjective as if it means something, from people who want to somehow be "proud to be German", but then barely speak the language and are, time and time again, either unaware or dismissive of the history.
> I'm so sick and tired of liberals acting like it is some kind of ultimate racist evil to be against excessive immigration.
Im also sick and tired of Liberals not realising that they are abetting corporate slavery via excessive immigration and rationalizing it that they are helping these immigrants. And arguing ”we need skilled immigrants”. What these Liberals are advocating is brain draining these countries which helps to perpetuate their poverty and backwardness if you take all their educated and skilled people.
I wasn't aware of that but wouldn't it be against the principles of democracy to penalize someone due to their political beliefs?