sshine 9 hours ago

I only accept keys on non-standard SSH ports.

Less spam traffic, easier to access.

Rejecting passwords is just as much a convenience nowadays:

I just don't have passwords on my remote machines any more.

enkrs 8 hours ago

If the argument for a password login is being able to log in from anywhere, just store a spare ssh key (password protected) in your gmail or similar that's reasonably safe and accessible from anywhere.

But I'm having hard time imagining those "anywhere" machine scenarios. Strangers machines that you trust enough to connect to your servers, and are able to install putty or your preferred ssh client of choice on? Better just have SSH on your own phone and laptop.

  • sam_lowry_ 7 hours ago

    > I'm having hard time imagining those "anywhere" scenarios

    Hold my beer.

    You ski in the Alps, its noon, and you get an alert that your DB is down.

    You know this may happen because of invasive bots, and you know what to do, so you just find a calm spot at the high-altitude cafe, ssh from the phone, find the infringing bot's IPs, block them with ipset and send yourself an email to deal with the problem properly later.

    Then you ski happily until dusk, knowing that users won't be affected.

    • saurik 7 hours ago

      I think "anywhere" here has to mean "any random device you come across", not merely "any strange location", as the premise is being able to log in with just a password rather than a key... I often use my phone to do tasks, but I do it with an ssh key on my phone.

      • kenhwang 7 hours ago

        Back when I worked from my phone while in the ski lift line, the solution really is to keep an SSH key on the phone if I intended to do any work from it.

        If I really had to access work resources from any random device, I'd go through the ordeal of logging into the SSO to log in to the web console to open a temporary cloud SSH session with the multiple layers of 2FA and probably even SecOps manual approvals that's likely required.

    • xorcist 6 hours ago

      > ssh from the phone

      That strengthens the previous commenters point. That personal phone is not an "anywhere" device but one that already carries the necessary software and can both interface your yubikey or carry your encrypted keys.

      A better example would be the same ski trip but where the data connection is bad on nonexistent so you borrow the hotel's computer to make the emergency fix.

      We used to do things like that, complete with post trip password rotations. I carried a laminated card in my wallet with the important key fingerprints. But with devices like the yubikey and cheap international data roaming, that has gotten less common.

      • sam_lowry_ 5 hours ago

        A Google or Apple phone carrying encryption keys to my precious servers? Hm... I feel already pwned.

        Jokes aside, I can not be bothered installing ssh keys on my phone. Phones change, get broken or stolen. Ssh clients on phones change as well and can not always be relied upon. I want to be 100% sure I can have ssh access to my servers in whatever improbable situation.

        As for Yubikey... I used it for a while as a keyboard emulator to generate a string to prepend to my corporate laptop password that had insane strength requirements.

        For personal and small business auth... it is too complex and brittle.

        And frankly, what's the problem with a strong password? Like... a quote from Netzsche translated in a mix of French and Dutch with a couple special chars thrown in?

    • cyberpunk 5 hours ago

      If I’m skiing in the alps there’s no fucking way I am on call, and you shouldn’t accept it either…

      • sam_lowry_ 5 hours ago

        Can you imagine that some people are their own bosses, with no backup whatsoever?

    • doorsopen 7 hours ago

      As someone who works with SREs every day, this breaks my heart.

      1 - Don't be on-call while going to ski

      2 - fail2ban and other automated systems can do this for you

      3 - Passwords suck and are typically not regularly rotated unless you're using some centralized IdP

      If you're in this situation you have already failed. If you use password auth use 2FA as well, and then I don't cry, it's just toil though.

      • sam_lowry_ 5 hours ago

        1. It breaks my heart to see indie dev spirit die even on HN.

        2. it's brittle and too automated to my taste. There may be false positives that I'd fait to review if it was too automated.

        3. There should be a very limited set of passwords for your main assets. For instance, one for infrastructure, one for a password manager, one for the safe at home. And they should never be rotated. They are meant to be ingrained in muscle memory and stay with you for many years.

    • sam_lowry_ 7 hours ago

      Another one: you sold an online business and forgot about it until the moment the buyer contacts you asking for a meeting exactly when you decide whether you want to go to the bomb shelter or risk staying in the appartment building so conveniently located next to a damb that protects Kyiv from flooding.

      You decide that staying on the 9th floor on the path of cruise missiles to the damb is too risky, pick your good old Toughbook that has enough juice to last until dawn, and go downstairs, asking the buyer over phone to reset the root password and send it over whatsapp.

      Once installed in the shelter, you quickly realize the disk is full, clean the logs and give furter instructions to the buyer to pass on to his IT.

      • teruakohatu 6 hours ago

        Instead: you WhatsApp your public ssh key to the buyer and login once they confirm your key has been added.

        I have had to send my ssh pub key over all sorts of messaging platforms.

robador 8 hours ago

I was just playing around with this problem. I ended up firewalling the SSH port for all but my personal IP, then have wireguard set up so I can use it from within my wireguard network. Works perfectly so far as long as I have my clients set up.

sam_lowry_ 8 hours ago

I configure password login for root on on standard port for all servers I personally control. Moreover, they all have the same root password.

Over the 20+ years, I witnessed a few security incidents. None was related to ssh, let alone a break in via a weak password.

But I ran into many situations when I needed immediate access to the server and this setup saved my day, my money and my nerves.

  • jand 7 hours ago

    sry to be that guy (with a snarky comment):

    > Over the 20+ years, I witnessed a few security incidents.

    As you said, the attackers who breached your system had ssh root access and you had no chance to detect them.

    • sam_lowry_ 5 hours ago

      Attackers attack for a reason. For targets like my servers, they mostly want to install mining software or a DDoS bot. This is detectable via cpu or network monitoring.

      I assume if someone wanted to extort money from me after encrypting the disks on my servers, I would also be somehow informed.

WhyNotHugo 8 hours ago

I use a Yubikey with ssh keys, and suddenly I have my ssh keys available anywhere, while I also avoid them being stored in any single host.

cyberpunk 5 hours ago

I just stick remote access on tailscale interfaces these days. If something goes astronomically wrong I can get in via my cloud providers console access too.

I really don’t understand why people run sshd on the open internet anymore.

  • macinjosh 5 hours ago

    SSH is standard and it’s open. Tailscale is commercial and closed.

l0ng1nu5 8 hours ago

Why not use port knocking as well?

  • rwmj 8 hours ago

    What's the best way to set up port knocking on a Fedora / Debian server? While not a security measure per se, it adds a layer of obfuscation which blocks random scanners.

    • c64d81744074dfa 5 hours ago

      Not sure if this is the best, but I use nftables and this article helped me setup port knocking on a debian server: https://home.regit.org/2017/07/nftables-port-knocking/

      Then I added a tripwire feature to make it less likely that a random port traversal would be successful. Here's a snippet of my nftables.conf:

          define KNOCK_PORT1 = 20000
          define KNOCK_PORT2 = 30000
          define KNOCK_PORT3 = 10000
          define TRIPWIRE_PORT1 = 15000
          define TRIPWIRE_PORT2 = 25000
          
          table inet filter {
          
              .
              .
          
              set allowed_ssh {
                  type ipv4_addr
                  flags timeout
                  elements = { $HOME_IP, $OTHER_SERVER_IP }
              }
          
              # track port knocking
              set knock1 {
                  type ipv4_addr
                  timeout 5s
              }
              set knock2 {
                  type ipv4_addr
                  timeout 5s
              }
              set banned {
                  type ipv4_addr
                  timeout 1m
              }
          
              # handle port knocking
              chain raw {
                  type filter hook prerouting priority raw;
                  policy accept;
          
                  ip saddr @banned tcp dport { $KNOCK_PORT1, $KNOCK_PORT2, $KNOCK_PORT3} log prefix "nft banned: " drop
          
                  tcp dport $KNOCK_PORT1 set add ip saddr @knock1 log prefix "nft knock1: " drop
                  ip saddr @knock1 tcp dport $TRIPWIRE_PORT1 set add ip saddr @banned log prefix "nft tripwire1: " drop
                  ip saddr @knock1 tcp dport $KNOCK_PORT2 set add ip saddr @knock2 log prefix "nft knock2: " drop
                  ip saddr @knock2 tcp dport $TRIPWIRE_PORT2 set add ip saddr @banned log prefix "nft tripwire2: " drop
                  ip saddr @knock2 tcp dport $KNOCK_PORT3 set add ip saddr @allowed_ssh log prefix "nft knock3: " drop
              }
          }
ruthmarx 7 hours ago

It's convenient and fail2ban/crowdsec is generally a sufficient safeguard. Bruteforcing isn't realistic so you just have to keep an eye on vulns.

Key auth is obviously better, but password auth is not as bad as many people like to pretend.

akdor1154 8 hours ago

I allow password from the internet only alongside a TOTP code.. Still gives me a backup in case of unforeseen situations but a step above plain password auth.

timewizard 9 hours ago

> This is something that I probably care about more than most people, because as a system administrator I want to be able to log in to my desktop even in quite unusual situations.

If I understand correctly you can have your SSH key entirely on a Yubikey if you use PIV or OpenPGP.

  • computerfriend 4 hours ago

    Now you can drop the PIV or PGP dependencies. OpenSSH can use webauthn to derive SSH keys.

  • denysvitali 9 hours ago

    Yes, this.

    GPG supports smartcards (yes, the plastic smartcards) since ages. The Yubikey will appear as a smartcard on GPG and will work on pretty much sny setup.

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  • pointlessone 9 hours ago

    Does every random system automatically picks up Yubikey? Does SSH on all platforms find that key?

markuman123 7 hours ago

Three layer of defense on default Port here.

1. ufw limit ssh.

2. Ansible devsec.hardening.ssh_hardening

3. fail2ban

darthrupert 10 hours ago

It can thwart a local keylogger from getting your password. But of course if you have a local keylogger, you're probably quite fucked already.

But there's at least some "security in layers" benefit there.

  • tjoff 6 hours ago

    If it is a software keylogger then getting the key is even easier...

denysvitali 9 hours ago

I don't agree with the arguments of the author: you can still use a Yubikey (or multiple Yubikeys as a backup) - which is a far more secure option than letting anyone on the internet guess an authentication factor that can be easily cloned (password).

No matter your solution, but exposing password-based SSH on the internet is a very bad idea IMHO

nobunaga 10 hours ago

So this person, as a system administrator, wants to be able to sacrifice security for his personal convenience so he can login from anywhere. Does not sound like a system administrator that actually prioritises the right things. Security, especially if its not your own system, should always come first.

  • iforgotpassword 9 hours ago

    You have to balance those two, because the only server that's 100% secure is the one that's powered off. Everyone does that differently. I don't see sshd with key-only auth as dangerous, but password login makes me uncomfortable. Do you drive down to the data center your server is in every time you want to access it?

    "I'm using VPN"

    Great now you moved the target from sshd to wireguard.

    • PhilipRoman 8 hours ago

      >Great now you moved the target from sshd to wireguard

      I definitely agree with your general sentiment, but in this case wireguard has a much better designed protocol. No response to scans, waaaaay smaller attack surface, no deep integration with a shell that needs to be explicitly disabled depending on use case, no pile of obscure authentication options that you need to make sure to disable...

    • nobunaga 6 hours ago

      Sure, but have you heard of reducing the attack surface? If you need to have to be able to log in at all times then youre probably at a scale that you have oncall processes and multiple people that can respond to incidents at a moments notice and having pub key auth enabled only makes sense. If you dont need that then youre probably small enough that that enablig only public key auth or putting it behind a vpn suffices. And having something like wireguard is much better than having something like password login enabled.

      Anyone who sacrifices security for convenience is asking for trouble.

      • sam_lowry_ 3 hours ago

        The nastiest break in I ever had worked because I installed wget on that server for convenience.

        It exploited a known Drupal vulnerability to drop in a PHP script that in turn executed wget to download a payload.

        So I agree about the importance of reducing the attack surface.

        Now, ssh with password authenticated on a tightly controlled server, without fail2ban, port knocking and other tricky setups is exactly it. A setup with reduced attack surface.

        > Anyone who sacrifices security for convenience is asking for trouble.

        The you should switch off your mobile devices, destroy the sim cards and never connect again.

    • [removed] 8 hours ago
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    • [removed] 8 hours ago
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