Comment by olex

Comment by olex a day ago

28 replies

Inadvertently perfect timing for this footage. Glowing and backlit by the setting sun, against clear and already darkening evening sky... couldn't plan the shot any better if you tried.

Let's hope no debris came down on anyone or anything apart from open water.

andrewinardeer a day ago

I take it if SpaceX debris hit and destroyed a boat the owner can claim damages from SpaceX?

Does international space law allow for this?

  • ceejayoz a day ago

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Liability_Convention

    Only used once, when the Soviets dropped a nuclear reactor on Canada.

    > States (countries) bear international responsibility for all space objects that are launched within their territory. This means that regardless of who launches the space object, if it was launched from State A's territory, or from State A's facility, or if State A caused the launch to happen, then State A is fully liable for damages that result from that space object.

    • krick a day ago

      I feel like it should be updated. When it was written it wasn't like every Musk could launch high-orbit rockets on sundays. Only actual states did.

      • dragonwriter a day ago

        The convention does not prevent national law from providing private liability which may come into play between entities subject to the jurisdiction of the same state or between the state who is liable to other states under the convention and entities operating within the state. So, there is no need to update the convention; the states from which private launches operate simply need adequate domestic law to cover both fully-internal liability and private launcher liability for claims against the government under the convention. (And the US generally does, with the basic regulatory regime being adopted and the private space launch industry operating in the 1980s; it is not an issue that arose with Musk/SpaceX.)

      • ceejayoz a day ago

        States can set whatever rules they like internally. The US can make SpaceX pay them back if they want.

      • tcmart14 10 hours ago

        No expert, but I would assume, the USA would front it, but then take a case against SpaceX. So it would be Boat Owner v. USA, then USA v. SpaceX shortly after. Although I could be totally wrong.

        But yea, seems appropriate to update it or if that is going to be the process, write it in stone.

      • oskarkk a day ago

        Every rocket flight has to be approved by the government. No launch until FAA (and also FCC) OK's it.

    • twic a day ago

      Does the thing have to have got into space and then come back for this to apply?

    • walrus01 a day ago

      As I recall a village in Australia also billed NASA with their standard municipal littering fine, for skylab debris that landed there, and the bill was paid 20+ years later by a radio station as a publicity stunt.

  • somenameforme a day ago

    Most things put into space are designed to burn upon uncontrolled descent through orbit. And then the overwhelming majority of Earth is water and even on land the overwhelming majority of land is either completely uninhabited or sparsely inhabited. And then even if against all odds somehow something doesn't burn up in the atmosphere, and somehow lands in a densely populated area - the odds of hitting a spot with somebody or something relevant on it is still quite low. The overall odds of actually hitting somewhere really bad are just astronomically low.

    Nonetheless, recently NASA won the lottery when part of some batteries they jettisoned from the ISS ended up crashing through a house in Florida. [1] Oddly enough there are treaties on this, but only from an international perspective - landing on your own country was not covered! But I'm certain NASA will obviously make it right, as would SpaceX. If they didn't, then surely the family could easily sue as well.

    [1] - https://www.space.com/space-debris-florida-family-nasa-lawsu...

  • HPsquared a day ago

    It's probably similar to if a US ship crashed into your yacht.

    • dylan604 a day ago

      Rules of the water says smaller ship yields right of way to bigger ship. Sounds like you screwed up if your yacht got hit by a bigger ship. Of course that applies when the vessels are not tied up. If a big ship his a docked boat, that's an entirely different scenario

      • cdbyr a day ago

        There is a whole hierarchy of right of way on the water, but a better rule of thumb is that the less maneuverable boat generally has priority.

        https://www.whoi.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Abbreviated-...

        • ta1243 17 hours ago

          And of course there's the old tale:

          Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

          Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

          Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

          Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course.

          Americans: This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln, the second largest ship in the United States' Atlantic fleet. We are accompanied by three destroyers, three cruisers and numerous support vessels. I demand that YOU change your course 15 degrees north, that's one five degrees north, or countermeasures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.

          Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighthouse_and_naval_vessel_ur...

      • lmm a day ago

        > Rules of the water says smaller ship yields right of way to bigger ship. Sounds like you screwed up if your yacht got hit by a bigger ship.

        Not necessarily. Steam is obliged to give way to sail, even when the sailing ship is much smaller.

  • delichon a day ago

    Musk said that part of the launch licensing was a requirement to estimate the potential damage to whales in the ocean. He said that the odds turned out to be so low that in his opinion if a whale gets hit it had it coming.

    https://jabberwocking.com/did-elon-musk-really-have-to-study...