Comment by hypertexthero 3 days ago
While thinking of making a game I’ve found these helpful:
1. The Art of Game Design, A Book of Lenses by Jesse Schell - https://schellgames.com/art-of-game-design
2. 20 Tips on Making Games by Jordan Mechner - https://www.jordanmechner.com/downloads/library/20tips.pdf
3. Liz England’s blog - https://lizengland.com/blog/
I have tons of friends that took his classes at CMU, as much as everything he says sounds good I don't know a single person that has ever enjoyed a game he made. Because of that, I have to assume what he says is either fluff or wrong even if i can't perceive why exactly
That's interesting, it hasn't occurred to me to check his games. That said, I remember reading that Machiaveli was once given a territory to govern and he was terrible at it, despite The Prince. It may be a thing about teachers vs doers.
THAT said, there is a lot of intersting things one can learn from John Carmack, so there's an exception to every rule.
>That said, I remember reading that Machiaveli was once given a territory to govern and he was terrible at it, despite The Prince.
this is a great articulation of what i'm trying to say thanks
It's not that he's making games too avant garde or something that might be going over my head. His company just makes corporate slop, not a single enjoyable game amongst them
Yep, but that's a totally separate thing from making good games
Usually but not always. There have been some great corporate projects, but it does feel like they are less common now than say 10+ years ago, and typically neat twists on existing successes vs. unique ideas
Discourage reading Jesse Schell if you want to make _good_ games instead of corporate slop. He's never made a game you like or anyone you know likes. Agreed everything he says sounds great but then why hasn't he made any good games?
> Agreed everything he says sounds great but then why hasn't he made any good games?
Quick browse of the portfolio on that website (https://schellgames.com/portfolio) seems to show multiple games that has won awards. All their original games seems to have "Mostly Positive" or above on Steam as well.
What metric are you judging this developer by? I can't say I've played/seen any of those games myself, but clearly they seem to be putting out some games that people play and enjoy.
The fact that i'm a huge gamer, and have a huge friend group of them but nobody plays his games. It's just crazy to me this guy gets a shout out by hordes of people that don't play them. I doubt anyone upthread recommending his book plays any of them regularly
So you've never played his games, but for some reason you are assuming they're good? why? why is everyone so desperate to lend this man authority without any personal experience on something you can evaluate yourself so easily
> The fact that i'm a huge gamer, and have a huge friend group of them but nobody plays his games
Yeah, same here. But my conclusion from that would be "I'm not the target market", not "Those games are clearly shit because neither I or my friends play them".
Again, looking at the games, they've won awards + are highly rated by people playing them. You just think those people are wrong for liking the games, or something?
Look there are countless game designers making shovelware crap. I don't fault them at all, what annoys me is people pointing to him as an authority when those same people don't even play the game. Even here you're just assuming someone somewhere does, why not pay attention to game designers that make games you enjoy yourself?
You're the first person I've ever interacted with that has personally enjoyed one of his games! Your comment is forcing me to slightly update my beliefs thanks. how many hours have you played them?
Jesse Schell's book is a great read beyond game design.
Thanks for the other links.
To leave something in return, here's something I read the other day and kept thinking about it (I'm designing on a PvP motion based game)
"In competitive games, there is little more valuable than knowing the mind of the opponent, which the Japanese call “yomi.”
As a side note, I would even argue that the “strategic depth” of a game should be defined almost entirely on its ability to support and reward yomi."
The Yomi Layer concept is a reminder that moves need to have counters. If you know what the opponent will do, you should generally have some way of dealing with that.
https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/7-spies-of-the-mind