Comment by drak0n1c

Comment by drak0n1c 3 days ago

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This is why introducing a degree of school choice is becoming a popular policy among parents in both parties, but I think bringing back rapid expulsion to disciplinary boys/girls schools would be even more impactful. Unfortunately, recent social justice activism has stymied that possibility in progressive areas. Either restore unfettered power of self-curation to the environment and ensure it is wielded effectively, or parents will demand more flexibility in choosing from non-monopoly options.

pempem 3 days ago

I'm sorry - you're following all the comments about public schools being like a prison and you're suggesting people get expelled faster or disciplined more to improve schools?

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  • bdangubic 3 days ago

    my kid goes to private school. expelled students by grade:

    1st: 2

    2nd: 4

    3rd: 4

    4th: 3

    5th: 5

    6th: 3 (so far)

    why am I saying this? we pay tens of thousands of dollars per year for having access to this kind of environment. if there is a kid who is fucking up everyone else, the “everyone else” should not have to suffer through it. I would pay double what I pay now for this priviledge for my kid. so yes, 100%, more expelling and more discipline is needed

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    • Aeolun 3 days ago

      Isn’t that an absurd indictment of your school? If my (converted) $30k/year school had to expel even a single student every year that would be a massive failure in my eyes.

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      • bdangubic 3 days ago

        I am not sure I am following what you are saying here? what kind of failure?

        there is a lot of parents that have money to pay for private education for their kids and there is also a lot of those kids that are fuckups.

        if you mean failure of the parents - you are 100% - complete failure of the parents.

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    • programjames 3 days ago

      The crazy thing is, the American populace is already paying ~15k per student for public education. Why are they not expelling kids who are fucking up that environment?

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      • bdangubic 3 days ago

        well they will when they realize that MANY children should be left behind… (move to special ed schools or some vocational schools if they are high school age)

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  • quacked 3 days ago

    Prisons would be a lot safer if the dangerous inmates got kicked out of prison and left behind the ones who didn't attack other inmates.

    If you want to improve schools quickly, expelling problem kids is the easiest way to do it. But that would cause consequences to the expelled kids, as well as society.

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    • influx 3 days ago

      Often dangerous inmates are moved to higher security prisons. Gang members are segregated, etc.

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    • Purplehermann 3 days ago

      "Your kids should take one for society" is an atrocious pitch.

      "Your kids should be stuck with people who ruin their lives because criminals are" is also terrible.

      The correct response is moving problem kids to problem schools, then to disciplinary schools, and if necessary to juvy.

      Put people where they belong, with the people they belong with.

      Otherwise the people stuck with the trash will leave (and maybe that's okay in the end)

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      • Aeolun 3 days ago

        Most problem kids can be rehabilitated with some investment of time in a positive, welcoming environment though. Not so much if you stick them in prison school. They’ll just live up to your expectations in that case.

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  • pempem 3 days ago

    I suppose we're reading and experiencing different things. Here's what I'm reading:

    April 2021: https://publications.csba.org/california-school-news/april-2...

    Ballard Brief at BYU: https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/racial-inequality-...

    2018 GAO report: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-18-258

    I've been following the topic for a while as a minority and I worry about this as well as cops in our schools continuously raising the specter of violence and school shootings raising the real concern of violence.

    It doesn't feel like expelling students has reduced violence or improved the quality of the day to day when I see the tracking of these issues.

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  • keeganpoppen 3 days ago

    yeah, in what world would that not help? they're not getting kicked out of the school system, just the school. lowest-common-denominator idealism like you are espousing here is one of the primary reasons why schools have gotten so terrible.

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    • munksbeer 2 days ago

      Obviously there is a bigger picture in all of this. I don't know what the correct balance is, but assume that all problem kids (for some strict definition of problem) were expelled and placed in a "problem school". I highly doubt that is going to improve that child's life or attitude, but obviously it will help those at the previous school. So we end up with a large number of kids who will almost certainly grow up to be "problem adults", in many cases criminals. Suddenly the problem you solved for the first school is now the problem of society at large.

      In a perfect world, most of those problem children would be mentored correctly in regular schools and given a path to a better adult life, and therefore not create a future "problem adult".

      In practice, it doesn't seem to work like that, and I agree, "problem children" do cause frictions and disruptions and worse for other children at regular schools.

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