Comment by pempem
Comment by pempem 4 days ago
I'm sorry - you're following all the comments about public schools being like a prison and you're suggesting people get expelled faster or disciplined more to improve schools?
Comment by pempem 4 days ago
I'm sorry - you're following all the comments about public schools being like a prison and you're suggesting people get expelled faster or disciplined more to improve schools?
I am not sure I am following what you are saying here? what kind of failure?
there is a lot of parents that have money to pay for private education for their kids and there is also a lot of those kids that are fuckups.
if you mean failure of the parents - you are 100% - complete failure of the parents.
The crazy thing is, the American populace is already paying ~15k per student for public education. Why are they not expelling kids who are fucking up that environment?
I'm of the opinion that parents are largely to blame for all this stuff. School is viewed as daycare and education not really prioritized by a large part of our population. Teacher's get all the blame and that's not right at all.
I'm for things that entails negative consequences for the parents prior to the kid being pigeon holed as a deplorable or unfitting for academic environments. Sending them home is one way to make the parents suffer. But before that, let's group them together and then find ways to level them up as a cohort. Everyone suffers when the class has a huge standard deviation of skills/knowledge/enthusiasm/engagement/support/etc.
I could not agree more with everything you said - it is really on parents largely. if my kid was one causing trouble in school I would 100% consider this my failure. and your idea about sending them home is for sure good in my book - of course this may create additional shitstorm on the kids if the parents are shitty but it is definitely one way I think makes sense to start with.
let's group them together and then find ways to level them up as a cohort I also agree with this but am thinking there has to be time limits etc... everyone should be given a 2nd chance and for kids I think everyone should be given 10th chance :) but both parents and kids have to understand that there are consequences and there are time limits to patience for behaviour correction.
Prisons would be a lot safer if the dangerous inmates got kicked out of prison and left behind the ones who didn't attack other inmates.
If you want to improve schools quickly, expelling problem kids is the easiest way to do it. But that would cause consequences to the expelled kids, as well as society.
"Your kids should take one for society" is an atrocious pitch.
"Your kids should be stuck with people who ruin their lives because criminals are" is also terrible.
The correct response is moving problem kids to problem schools, then to disciplinary schools, and if necessary to juvy.
Put people where they belong, with the people they belong with.
Otherwise the people stuck with the trash will leave (and maybe that's okay in the end)
I suppose we're reading and experiencing different things. Here's what I'm reading:
April 2021: https://publications.csba.org/california-school-news/april-2...
Ballard Brief at BYU: https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/racial-inequality-...
2018 GAO report: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-18-258
I've been following the topic for a while as a minority and I worry about this as well as cops in our schools continuously raising the specter of violence and school shootings raising the real concern of violence.
It doesn't feel like expelling students has reduced violence or improved the quality of the day to day when I see the tracking of these issues.
yeah, in what world would that not help? they're not getting kicked out of the school system, just the school. lowest-common-denominator idealism like you are espousing here is one of the primary reasons why schools have gotten so terrible.
Obviously there is a bigger picture in all of this. I don't know what the correct balance is, but assume that all problem kids (for some strict definition of problem) were expelled and placed in a "problem school". I highly doubt that is going to improve that child's life or attitude, but obviously it will help those at the previous school. So we end up with a large number of kids who will almost certainly grow up to be "problem adults", in many cases criminals. Suddenly the problem you solved for the first school is now the problem of society at large.
In a perfect world, most of those problem children would be mentored correctly in regular schools and given a path to a better adult life, and therefore not create a future "problem adult".
In practice, it doesn't seem to work like that, and I agree, "problem children" do cause frictions and disruptions and worse for other children at regular schools.
my kid goes to private school. expelled students by grade:
1st: 2
2nd: 4
3rd: 4
4th: 3
5th: 5
6th: 3 (so far)
why am I saying this? we pay tens of thousands of dollars per year for having access to this kind of environment. if there is a kid who is fucking up everyone else, the “everyone else” should not have to suffer through it. I would pay double what I pay now for this priviledge for my kid. so yes, 100%, more expelling and more discipline is needed