Comment by ForHackernews 10 months ago
What a load of whinging. You do get the same benefits: Americans abroad can collect social security and medicare benefits, your children can apply to US universities on equal footing with US residents.
The US has tax treaties with almost every country, so you absolutely do not "pay full price" to the IRS unless you're too lazy to deduct the taxes you're paying in your local jurisdiction.
US taxes are objectively more annoying than most countries' and attempts to simplify the process are stymied by people with political axes to grind (e.g. Grover Norquist) and for-profit tax prep firms that stand to lose lots of money: https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax...
Things might finally be shifting. In recent years, the IRS has introduced its own software that will handle most taxpayers' basic situations.
> What a load of whinging.
Aka 'facts you don't like'.
> You do get the same benefits
Nope. Definitively, categorically, obviously not.
> Americans abroad can collect social security
Social Security eligibility depends on having paid into the system for a certain number of quarters, and some countries do not have Social Security agreements with the U.S.
> and medicare benefits
Medicare does not cover healthcare costs outside of the U.S.
Expats would have to return to the U.S. to use any Medicare benefits, and even then Americans face issues.
> your children can apply to US universities on equal footing with US residents.
On equal footing?? No. And again you need to be in America to take advantage of that.
U.S. universities often treat students living abroad as international students when assessing financial aid or admissions. Access to loans, scholarships, financial aid can be more difficult because of residency status, financial circumstances etc.
Besides all of which, why wouldn't I be equal to other citizens when applying for college? If I were in US college I'd be paying US taxes.
> The US has tax treaties with almost every country
FEIE and FTC help reduce the tax burden, but they require detailed reporting. Complex U.S. tax forms means costly & time-consuming filings - even if no taxes are owed - on top of any weird interactions with the local tax code.
And, not all foreign taxes are deductible. Foreign investment income, pensions, Social Security-equivalent benefits, etc, aren't always fully excluded.
> you absolutely do not "pay full price" to the IRS unless you're too lazy to deduct the taxes you're paying in your local jurisdiction.
That simple is it? Just navigate the US tax code, and all the interactions of it with the country you're in, every year, and let's not even talk about setting up a company. Simple, lol.
... Have you ever been through this process yourself? Did you ever even pay an accountant to do it?
Yes, I've lived abroad for the last ten years and done my taxes myself the whole time. FACTA is a minor irritation that requires good record keeping on my part, and some annoying paperwork once a year.
Could it be simplified and streamlined? Absolutely. Does it merit your overwrought hysterics? "Cruel and unusual"? Absolutely laughable.
If you're wealthy and lazy, then pay an accountant to do it for you - most wealthy, lazy business owners do! If not, do it yourself.
It really is not that bad! I don't understand how anyone who writes software for a living can be intimidated by IRS forms. I'll fill out Form 8833 twenty times over before I'd fight with cmake or helm charts.
> Does it merit your overwrought hysterics? "Cruel and unusual"? Absolutely laughable.
We have established that it's unusual. Only the US, NK and Eritrea demand this, and you've wisely not argued that point.
As for cruel: yes, definitively so. It causes needless hardship for many and is decidedly unfair. You agree that it's unnecessarily complex, and you seem to have given up on insisting that citizens abroad are equally represented.
So what's 'hysterical' about calling it cruel and unusual - when it clearly is? What's "laughable" about any of this?
> I don't understand how anyone who writes software for a living can be intimidated by IRS forms.
Congrats - you don't have any issues which would prevent you from having trouble with that kind of form and all the work that goes into it.
Unfortunately, you apparently lack the empathy, or theory of mind, to understand that many if not most people feel quite differently about it.
There are all sorts of reasons that people (even software programmers) can have a different view on this to you: ADD, form anxiety/aversion, math issues, lack of financial knowledge, fear of legal repercussion, record keeping difficulties, life events, language barriers and issues with legal jargon, cognitive disabilities, accessibility issues, growing up poor, empathy for others, etc.
Denying their experience to defend something so obviously exploitative, unjust and unnecessary is a really strange hill to battle on.
What would you personally lose if this situation were corrected? Absolutely nothing. What do you gain from it? Absolutely nothing. You would immediately benefit if these rules were changed. So why are you on this hill bro? What are you trying to do here?
Why is that whenever someone points out an injustice, there's always someone telling them to stop complaining? (And not politely either.) Often they'll say something like "Well if you hate our rules so much, leave!" - except in this case, I already did, and I'm still affected.
You're so disproportionately upset about some minor administrative hassles. I certainly don't find it "exploitative" or "unjust" that Americans retain the rights and responsibilities of citizenship worldwide.
No one's stopping you from renouncing your citizenship if you're really this upset about it. (I'm sure this suggestion will trigger a long screed about how tragic the exit penalty is)
Any time I hear an American talk about US taxes they sound like it's a major pain in their backside though.
I just fill "Overseas Income: $xxxxx in xxxxx" and my tax report rolls out as €0 every single year. Because I've already paid my taxes in the country I'm living.
I can also do this without any specialized software or accountants, which seems to be something kind of iffy in the US.