Comment by ForHackernews

Comment by ForHackernews 10 months ago

Yes, I've lived abroad for the last ten years and done my taxes myself the whole time. FACTA is a minor irritation that requires good record keeping on my part, and some annoying paperwork once a year.

Could it be simplified and streamlined? Absolutely. Does it merit your overwrought hysterics? "Cruel and unusual"? Absolutely laughable.

If you're wealthy and lazy, then pay an accountant to do it for you - most wealthy, lazy business owners do! If not, do it yourself.

It really is not that bad! I don't understand how anyone who writes software for a living can be intimidated by IRS forms. I'll fill out Form 8833 twenty times over before I'd fight with cmake or helm charts.

mandmandam 10 months ago

> Does it merit your overwrought hysterics? "Cruel and unusual"? Absolutely laughable.

We have established that it's unusual. Only the US, NK and Eritrea demand this, and you've wisely not argued that point.

As for cruel: yes, definitively so. It causes needless hardship for many and is decidedly unfair. You agree that it's unnecessarily complex, and you seem to have given up on insisting that citizens abroad are equally represented.

So what's 'hysterical' about calling it cruel and unusual - when it clearly is? What's "laughable" about any of this?

> I don't understand how anyone who writes software for a living can be intimidated by IRS forms.

Congrats - you don't have any issues which would prevent you from having trouble with that kind of form and all the work that goes into it.

Unfortunately, you apparently lack the empathy, or theory of mind, to understand that many if not most people feel quite differently about it.

There are all sorts of reasons that people (even software programmers) can have a different view on this to you: ADD, form anxiety/aversion, math issues, lack of financial knowledge, fear of legal repercussion, record keeping difficulties, life events, language barriers and issues with legal jargon, cognitive disabilities, accessibility issues, growing up poor, empathy for others, etc.

Denying their experience to defend something so obviously exploitative, unjust and unnecessary is a really strange hill to battle on.

What would you personally lose if this situation were corrected? Absolutely nothing. What do you gain from it? Absolutely nothing. You would immediately benefit if these rules were changed. So why are you on this hill bro? What are you trying to do here?

Why is that whenever someone points out an injustice, there's always someone telling them to stop complaining? (And not politely either.) Often they'll say something like "Well if you hate our rules so much, leave!" - except in this case, I already did, and I'm still affected.

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ForHackernews 10 months ago

You're so disproportionately upset about some minor administrative hassles. I certainly don't find it "exploitative" or "unjust" that Americans retain the rights and responsibilities of citizenship worldwide.
No one's stopping you from renouncing your citizenship if you're really this upset about it. (I'm sure this suggestion will trigger a long screed about how tragic the exit penalty is)

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- mandmandam 10 months ago
  
  > You're so disproportionately upset about some minor administrative hassles.
  Aka getting robbed, in a way no other country would dream of doing. We've been over this...
  > I certainly don't find it "exploitative" or "unjust" that Americans retain the rights and responsibilities of citizenship worldwide.
  Being this disingenuous is generally considered bad faith and rude.
  > No one's stopping you from renouncing your citizenship if you're really this upset about it.
  There's literally all kinds of exit penalty...
  > I'm sure this suggestion will trigger a long screed about how tragic the exit penalty is
  Well, no, because other people have already pointed this out.
  Also, it's obviously bad, because no other country in the world charges a higher exit fee, or gets so petty about renouncing citizenship.
  And even though you know all this, even though it's literally the worst in the world, from multiple angles, even though it's costing you time and money for no return, even though you get absolutely nothing out of it - you will get into a three day argument rather than accept that it's uncool. Bizarre.
  ... "Please Uncle, tax me more and make me do more forms, and make everyone else do it too so I can flaunt my fantastic form-filling skills". Truly, the diversity of humans on the planet is something to behold.
  
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  ForHackernews 10 months ago
  
  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Fundamentally, I don't think it's bad to require that wealthy citizens pay taxes. I don't think I'm being "robbed" - I pay higher taxes where I'm resident, so I just fill out some forms to tell Uncle Sam what I've already paid and it zeroes out my US tax liability.
  Far from being unjust, I think it's good and proper that you can't run away to Dubai to skip out on your obligations.
  The US government does plenty of things I consider unjust. To take one obvious example, it has, without due process, killed its own citizens in drone strikes. I just don't consider making wealthy business owners do paperwork among its crimes.
  
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