Comment by christophilus
Comment by christophilus 2 days ago
How so?
Comment by christophilus 2 days ago
How so?
US citizen and long-time expat calling bullshit on this. That's not the purpose of taxes and that's not how citizenship works in any other country except North Korea.
Looking at the list of "benefits" another person posted:
> The rights your passport gives you Are no different than the rights an EU passport gives you, except when entering the US-- but then again, an EU passport gives you better rights when entering the EU, so this is not an exclusive.
> + the legal and embassy protections given to American citizens. Like the American civilians held in Russia that Biden recently traded Russian spies for.
Note that the US doesn't have jurisdiction outside of US territory, so it cannot give legal protection and explicitly embassies do not give legal advice. Yes, there may sometimes be trades like above, but on the other hand, if the US prisoners were not US people, they probably would not have been jailed by the Russians in the first place.
> You still have access to vote absentee, Voting is a responsibility, not a benefit.
>as well as collect social security benefits.
Wrong-o! You only get social security benefits you have paid for. If you are living outside of the US, you are not contributing to soc. security.
> You can use US bank accounts and other institutions.
So can non-citizens. US bank accounts do not require citizenship. Nor does owning real estate. Nor forming companies.
You and your children have the right to return if you ever desire it.
Not sure why US citizens believe this. I've been in situations where there was genuine peril and the look of shock the US citizens had when someone from their embassy said the only thing they'd do is organize a convoy of private vehicles if everyone turned up at x time and place. They really expected the US army to turn up to save them. Honestly I don't think I've seen the US do any more than any other western country for their citizens in these situations.
The rights your passport gives you + the legal and embassy protections given to American citizens. Like the American civilians held in Russia that Biden recently traded Russian spies for.
You still have access to vote absentee, as well as collect social security benefits.
You can use US bank accounts and other institutions.
You and your children have the right to return if you ever desire it.
> You still have access to vote absentee,
Most other countries allow their expatriate population to vote without this taxation requirement. Why should the US be different?
>as well as collect social security benefits.
Absolutely incorrect. The times I've lived abroad have not count towards my SSN contributions; I've had to make up for them after returning, in a sense. I now have to figure out how to collect a smattering of "social security equivalent" payments once I retire from a foreign country as a result.
> You can use US bank accounts and other institutions.
Actually, you're not supposed to in most cases, and most banks will basically force you out if they find out you're not in the US. Only a few brokerages will actually work with you (ibkr is best iirc, Schwab can also work). Pretending to "exist" at a relatives house for your bank may be living on borrowed time, though in practice it is possible to do for years if one leaves. Newcomers can't open a bank account with US citizenship if they're non residents (again, except for a few brokerages).
> You and your children have the right to return if you ever desire it.
Why should I pay for the option to do so? Why not do like every other country and pay if I actually exercise the option and return (and pay taxes)? Just like every other country (except Eritrea and North Korea, but do we want to be in the same camp as them?).
As others have pointed out, this is far from correct. If you have a US bank account and they find out your residence has moved to another country they are very likely to close the account immediately.
I think it's because the US has the clout to indirectly compel foreign institutions to cooperate in a way that other western countries can't.
For example, for a US expat living in the UAE the various branches of the US government can threaten the UAE government, banks etc. to make them cooperate and tell them how much the US citizen is earning to ensure they pay their US taxes - if you're a bank anywhere in the world, you do not want to be cut off from the US dollar system.
If the UK, France, Germany etc. tried to tax their citizens globally it might work in other western countries, but in places like the Middle East they might struggle to get foreign entities to comply making it impossible to enforce.
Honestly? Because they can't. If any other country had control of the world's reserve currency, they would do it, too.
It's the same reason why the US can place sanctions on Russian individuals in a way that, say, India cannot.
That is a completely warped and incorrect view. There is no political will to do so. I’ve never even seen it suggested even by the cringiest parties in any country in which I have lived. Besides, the simple fact that North Korea and Eritrea have comparable policies, and only them, is a strong indication that this idea is completely wrong. Neither has any kind of international clout to enforce this, and yet they have it for a reason.
Assuming that everyone else would do just like the US if they could get away with it is pure projection. Yes, it’s how the US work. No, it is not normal or even common.
Perhaps because no other country goes to the same lengths to help its citizens abroad in times of trouble. When there's geopolitical trouble brewing, it not uncommon for other nationalities to take advantage of American evacuations. Few countries come close the US in leveraging intelligence and logistics to help citizens; France is probably #2.
You know the usa bills people for evacuating them right :)?
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-tra....
Also, read up on Americans stuck in Gaza with no way out.
> France is probably #2
I don't know what it's like for Americans living abroad but indeed, as a French citizen living abroad I do believe that France spends enough resources to justify taxing me (with guarantees against double taxation, and the various complications and edge cases it implies).
As far as I know, American citizens can't really vote abroad (they have to be registered to a place inside the US and vote by correspondence, I think?) while we have voting booths in most countries where France has a consulate[0].
Since there are many French citizens where I live, there were 14 booths across this country for the last elections so you're probably never more than 50 kilometers from one (in addition to being able to vote through Internet). There were 23 of them in the US, 33 in Canada (20 of them in Montreal apparently), etc.
That's a whole lot of effort for people who are voting for things that will not affect them directly and who don't pay taxes (even a token tax) for France, and it's great, and I think it's normal to devote efforts for all citizens wherever they are, but it means I couldn't honestly complain about reasonable taxation.
[0]https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000049516393
> As far as I know, American citizens can't really vote abroad (they have to be registered to a place inside the US and vote by correspondence, I think?) while we have voting booths in most countries where France has a consulate[0].
French expats also have their own representatives to the National Assembly, on top of voting for national elections (mostly presidential and the occasional referendum). It’s like if there were representatives for Europe in the US congress.
Let’s suppose I travel for business and am not a teenager working through power fantasies. What’s in it for me if my concerns are not childish?
You enjoy benefits as a citizen, even if living abroad. You should pay for those.