Comment by csmpltn

Comment by csmpltn 3 days ago

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You could've labeled it terrorism had Lebanon and Israel weren't at war with each other over the past 12 months, and had the people carrying those devices were random uninvolved civilians.

If you were to consider the fact that Hezbollah has been shelling Israeli cities and civilians on a daily basis for the past 12 months (killing many, also children, and driving hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes), with the UN peacekeeping force failing to keep Hezbollah north of the Litani river - then perhaps you would understand that this is likely as close as you can get to a "precision strike" on an enemy you're at war with.

This may in-fact be the most precise military strike on an enemy paramilitary group in the history of modern warfare.

You either have a very unrealistic idea of what a war actually looks like (0% civilians casualties or injuries), or an agenda.

captainkrtek 3 days ago

The unfortunate thing is that regardless of politics, this will be seen as further escalation that ratchets up the risk of greater regional conflict. All wars eventually end, its just a question of how long, and how much death (both militarily and civilian) will be endured by everyone in the region. I hope there are diplomatic possibilities to de-escalate, but it seems those windows are closing.

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  • coding123 3 days ago

    I don't know - it would seem that the wars there don't end, it's just continuous with intermittent slow downs.

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ignoramous 3 days ago

Let's just say, I don't believe war is a cover for terrorism against any peoples, be it in the West or East, Arab or Caucasian.

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  • csmpltn 3 days ago

    Fair enough, and thanks for being open about this. With this in mind, all I can say is that your original comment is based on 100% emotion and 0% analysis and rationality.

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    • mistermann 3 days ago

      [flagged]

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      • csmpltn 3 days ago

        I certainly agree that war, as experienced by humans on all sides of a conflict, is a form of terror.

        That's a simple emotional argument that everybody can relate to.

        It doesn't touch on the realities of war, especially a war that was forced on one side by another (which is the case here, with Hezbollah willingly deciding to shell and bomb Israel on a daily basis for the past 12 months, despite Israel not waging any war on Lebanon).

        What are you so fascinated with here, exactly?

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  • s1artibartfast 3 days ago

    Do you think that any military action with civilian impact constitutes terrorism?

    no war has ever been waged without collateral damage.

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dnakqozkfnrjq 3 days ago

[flagged]

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  • csmpltn 3 days ago

    > It’s a mistake not to acknowledge civilian casualties, and not to feel sorrow and even anger.

    I agree with you 100%, it's important to acknowledge civilian casualties. Many uninvolved Lebanese people don't want a war with Israel, and they don't deserve any of this. I truly feel very sorry for those people and I wish they would never have had to go through this.

    But at the same time, we can't let emotions alone dictate everything.

    There's a murderous paramilitary death cult operating from within the Lebanese territory that uses Lebanon for all its territory and resources to kill as many Jewish people (and non-Jews, as demonstrated recently with the missile attack that killed 10 Druze children in a football game) as possible and erase Israel. They don't care about your feelings, or who their victims are. They'll gladly kidnap and murder civilians, children, elderly - as long as they are an Israeli. It's truly tragic, but there really aren't too many ways out of this.

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shihab 3 days ago

do you realize that nurses in hospital, civil servants workers are among people carrying this device? That not all, not even majority of Hizbollah personnel have no military responsibility whatsoever?

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  • csmpltn 3 days ago

    There's absolutely no reason for uninvolved, random and peaceful civilians to be carrying a classified wartime-ready pager issued by a paramilitary terrorist organization. If you were carrying the device you're either Hezbollah, or cooperating with them - which makes you a legitimate military target.

    Israel has given Lebanon and Hezbollah enough ultimatums to stop the aggressions. This is what happens when diplomacy fails.

    Reply View 13 replies
    • koolba 3 days ago

      > If you were carrying the device you're either Hezbollah, or cooperating with them - which makes you a legitimate military target.

      Or you were standing in line next to a guy holding one while waiting to buy groceries. It’s clearly indiscriminate to the collateral damage.

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      • csmpltn 3 days ago

        But we already have videos of people standing in very close proximity to the devices being detonated - and not getting hurt. In-fact, many of the people carrying the device in their pockets ended up not sustaining life-threatening injuries.

        I'm not saying civilians weren't hurt by this. But I'm also saying that no war has 0% civilian casualties. Those two countries are at war with each other.

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      • eastbound 3 days ago

        I like your lack of proportions.

        This war is about Hezbollah and Hamas shelling civilians in Israel. Like hundreds of rockets per night. If, to stop that, it may harm a few civilians who are waiting next to Hezbollah members,

        …you would let people keep shelling civilians by hundreds and hundreds of rockets?

        How do you choose your actions, do you always support the guys who cause the maximum deaths? How does it work, “indiscriminate damage” is as soon as a person is inconvenienced while they were holding Hezbollah’s grocery bags? Shouldn’t they … distance themselves?

        Pun unintended. But it’s a very good question. Shouldn’t they distance themselves from active murderers?

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      • s1artibartfast 3 days ago

        If they were truly indiscriminate and and indifferent to collateral damage, there are far easier and more effective ways to kill a few dozen people in Lebanon.

        The whole complex and contrived attack speaks of tying to minimize collateral damage.

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    • makomk 3 days ago

      All available evidence suggests there's nothing "classified" or "wartime ready" about these - they were your basic, cheap, totally unencrypted POCSAG/Flex pager. The same as any other pager carried by doctors and all the other people who use them - aside from the hidden explosives, of course.

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  • kcplate 3 days ago

    I doubt that was the case for these specifically hacked and weaponized devices. The operation appears to be ingenious and precisely layered in design. It very specifically targeted a group of people who were first convinced to ditch their mobile devices because they were hackable by Israel. Then the target group was provided the weaponized devices. They were bulk triggered at a specific moment of time. The weaponized device (while certainly lethal in some cases) was seemingly designed to maim and minimize damage beyond the person holding the device. And… perhaps most importantly, they were expected to be kept in a front pocket increasing the likelihood of physically emasculating the target group. It’s the ultimate “you don’t want to fuck with us”.

    Its disturbing as hell…but brilliant.

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  • [removed] 3 days ago
    [deleted]
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jajko 3 days ago

Terrorism definition is independent of whether there is ongoing war or not, lets not divert the subject with simple whataboutism.

We all know what happened, on both sides, including deaths of tens of thousands of civilians including thousands of palestinian children who did fuck nothing to anybody, just were born at bad place at bad time.

What would be enough kill ratio israeli : palestinian civilian, or even better israeli civilian : palestinian kid/baby that would satiate Israeli government to stop the war? Very conservative estimates put deaths of direct US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq to around 500k, meaning its 500:3 ratio and factual defeat of US army to withdraw and cut losses. So thats the threshold of civilized western world? Israel already surpassed that long time ago.

They can't and won't win with Hamas and they know it, its exactly same situation as Taliban, ISIS etc. Regroup, strike back, stronger, smarter, better equipped, more motivated. Spiral of death can go on and on till there is nobody standing on neither side.

If I had to choose where the next nuclear detonation happens it would be for me 50:50 Ukraine : Israel, and this is how you get there.

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