Comment by burningion

Comment by burningion 2 months ago

Just finished re-reading Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey a few weeks ago.

If you haven't read the Odyssey before, I think her translation is accessible enough to just jump right in.

My favorite part of the story is how central luck is to everything.

The characters constantly accept the role of luck in what they do, and the potential of landing on the wrong side of it.

Few modern stories give luck and randomness such prominence, and downplay our own ability to entirely control outcomes.

coliveira 2 months ago

That's right, but from the Greeks' point of view it was not luck: it was the diving fate, determined by the Gods. The modern equivalent is religious people who believe that everything is determined by the Jewish god.

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giraffe_lady 2 months ago

Wouldn't the modern equivalent be scientific materialists who believe it is determined by luck? The ancient greeks believed that fate and consequence were determined by divine act, but not necessarily decided by them. You could after all find yourself a pawn in a power struggle between gods, or by being favored by one be used as a weapon against them by a rival or enemy. This is a really different conception of divine interference than what modern abrahamic religious people believe.
The abrahamic religions all more or less believe god is benevolent and acting in our best interest within the constraint of allowing us also to act freely. This seems fairly different both from what ancient greeks believed about fate and modern secular beliefs about luck and coincidence.

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- coliveira 2 months ago
  
  The secular belief of luck is that nobody is determining anything: no gods, no divine providence, etc. So, completely unrelated to the Greek beliefs.
  As for modern religious people, everyone has a different version of what their god can do or not. Theologians may spend their whole lives trying to support one version of another.
  
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YeGoblynQueenne 2 months ago

Not luck, but the Μοίραι, the Fates, the most powerful deities in Greek mythology, whose will not even Zeus could change.

If Wilson is translating them as "luck", she's done you and all her readers a disservice, but I get a feeling that's just one of many. Popular as her translations might be, and despite the glowing review int he article it seems she is taking great liberties with the content of the epics and presenting it through a strongly distorting modern lens [1].

Source: I'm Greek, grew up in Greece, went to school in Greece and you betcha we studied the Iliad and the Odyssey (in absolutely abominable modern Greek translations) in high school. I read them back and forth multiple times and drew stick figure cartoons on the margins, usually of Corinthian-helmeted warriors disemboweling each other. a.k.a. The Iliad.

___________________________

[1] Apparently:

https://casa-kvsa.org.za/legacy/AC63-Whitaker-18DEC2019.pdf

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coldpie 2 months ago

> If you haven't read the Odyssey before, I think her translation is accessible enough to just jump right in.

I keep checking, but it is continuously checked out at my local library :D One day I'll get lucky. (Yes, I know about holds; I don't like them; I don't like the sense of obligation, and I enjoy the hunt; yes, it's a quirk.)

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[removed] 2 months ago

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kridsdale3 2 months ago

Sounds like a TTRPG Live Play.

"such and such would narratively be the best thing to do here"

"natural one"

"well fuck"

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