Comment by kreetx

Comment by kreetx 4 days ago

I think he did have his hand(s) on the officer right after he raised it. To me this "protective raise of the hand" looked like taking his hands off of the officer. Also, while Alex may have had protectiveness as a thought in his head this may have not seemed so to the officers.

Regarding shooting, what seems clear that shooting started after the gun was taken from Alex. At the discovery of it an officer also shouted "gun", after this guns were drawn and then shots were fired. Which gun went off first doesn't appear from the videos, but after the first one did, I assume that the rest of the shooting was due to the first shot being interpreted as the victim starting shooting, as not all of the officers saw that the gun had already removed.

Still, don't bring a gun to a protest, don't engage in any physical activities with law enforcement, don't stop them from doing their work, don't walk and whistle along..

spacechild1 4 days ago

So why did you claim Alex' gun went off? You have been spreading gross misinformation. Maybe take a step back and reflect before you come up with new theories.

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kreetx 4 days ago

I'm sure it will be known soon-ish where the first shot came from. It's just that the first one likely caused the rest of it as the surrounding officers didn't know who was shooting.
Say it turned out that the first shot was fired due to an officer misinterpreting something for a gun, because "gun" was yelled, would that turn this into anything else than an accident?
The best way to appear not to have a gun, nor appear dangerous at all, is not bring a gun to a protest.

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- spacechild1 4 days ago
  
  Again, why did you claim that Alex' gun went off as if that was a fact?
  > It's just that the first one likely caused the rest of it as the surrounding officers didn't know who was shooting.
  No need to speculate. If you watch https://youtu.be/i8kFcK-X-vQ?t=108 you will see that the first agent shoots Alex in the back one time and another three times while they all move away. Note that Alex has been restrained the whole time. One second later, you hear 6 more shots. This is where the second agent got involved. At this point, Alex has already been lying on the ground.
  > because "gun" was yelled, would that turn this into anything else than an accident?
  At best this was an accident, but even then it was the agents fault for misinterpreting the situation or the DHS's fault for deploying badly trained agents. (Hearing the words "Gun!" does not give officers the permit to shoot, unless they perceive an imminent threat to their or someone else's life!) However, if you watch the video above, you can see that an agent removes Alex' gun right in front of the agent who fires the first shots. There are lots of open questions.
  > The best way to appear not to have a gun, nor appear dangerous at all, is not bring a gun to a protest.
  The act of conceiled carrying alone does not make you a threat. Alex never behaved in a threatening way.
  Instead of putting the blame solely on Alex, maybe ask yourself what the agents could have done to deescalate the situation, what kind of people the DHS recruits as ICE agents and if their training is appropriate for urban policing.
  
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  kreetx 3 days ago
  
  > Again, why did you claim that Alex' gun went off as if that was a fact?
  This seems to be what people suspect. It's less likely that an officers own gun goes off as they are familiar with it.
  I don't put blame on Alex, solely (read!). But the ill meaning callouts of ICE being this and that, occupation, isn't correct either. I don't think you people in the US have actually lived under an occupation, so these words are easy to use.
  Regarding being threatening: well, if you carry a gun to a protest and engage physically with an officer (subjectively and to me) is threatening. It also seemed threatening to the shooting officers.
  
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