Microsoft forced me to switch to Linux
(himthe.dev)1859 points by bobsterlobster 4 days ago
1859 points by bobsterlobster 4 days ago
I'm in the exact same boat. I was a little unhappy with the ads etc in Windows, but perfectly willing to give Windows 11 a try. But Microsoft decreed that my admittedly a bit old but perfectly workable CPU was incompatible, due to not having a feature I wasn't interested in. I'd need to replace most of my existing hardware to switch. So why not try Linux? It certainly seems reasonable when Windows apparently needs more command-line hackery to maybe work for a while than Linux.
So to Fedora I went! So far, I've been pleasantly surprised. All of the software I want to use installed easily and works, via Flatpak. All of my hardware works fine, and there are actually fewer weird hardware quirks than under Windows. I also appreciate that there are options to turn off behaviors I found annoying in Windows.
It's a bit sad to have to switch due to Microsoft trashing their own OS rather than Linux becoming superlatively awesome, but what can you do.
And I say it as a Linux user. My story is breathing life into old hardware back in the 2010s without having to spend any money, and just enjoying the No Man's Sky style freedom of exploring a whole new world of how a desktop operating system could look in feel and work, unmoored from the background sickness of thinking everything I do is channeled into Microsoft telemetry.
If you're the type of person who's capable of falling in love with software and software ecosystems, there's nothing like a first jump into Linux and understanding it as a world ready and waiting for you.
FreeBSD user here too <3 Mainly because I think Linux is way too aligned (and developed by) big tech these days.
We have Netflix and Sun influence but the former is not really putting its stamp on it and the latter no longer exists (and evil Oracle has zero interest of course)
I prefer the OS aligned with users like me not the big cloud boys.
I'm in a similar but more ridiculous reason. My reasonably modern hardware should support windows 11, but I get "disk not supported" because apparently I once picked the "wrong" bootloader?
I can't be arsed, if I'm going to have to fiddle around getting that working I might as well move to linux.
Iike that you both started with Fedora. Same for me but almost 20 yrs ago
Haven't touched it in a long time ever since debian8 was the point in time where it was fine to run on desktop and laptop for me, not only on server. Ever since then I have it on all my 20something machines
I know you've already switched but bid you try using FlyOOBE to bypass it?
Prior to a lot of apps transitioning to be web apps, this would be more important, but there’s less value now that almost everything is non-native. Even MS Office is online now
You can bypass the warning really easily, I googled it the moment I saw it and it was very easy. A keyboard shortcut to open the command window during the install and one cheeky command. I agree though that it’s silly they don’t offer it officially.
But I get the feeling you were on the edge of transitioning anyway, which is fine! Sounds more like the straw that broke the camels back.
If you bypass the installer minimum hardware checks then you're making a gamble that the official statement from Microsoft won't affect you:
> If Windows 11 is installed on ineligible hardware, your device won't receive support from Microsoft, and you should be comfortable assuming the risk of running into compatibility issues.
> Devices that don't meet these system requirements might malfunction due to compatibility or other issues. Additionally, these devices aren't guaranteed to receive updates, including but not limited to security updates.
There's a little bit of considering it already yeah. Plus what the sibling comments say of it being clearly against what Microsoft wants, so no guarantee they won't disable it or make it even harder in the future. And also, the factor of, doing any of these check-disabling hacks also seems to require a full OS reinstall instead of an in-place update. If I need to do a full reinstall anyways, why not do it with an OS I don't need to hack up to get it to install on a system the OS maintainer doesn't want it to be installed on.
Apparently, fundamentally, Microsoft does not want me as a user. Hacking around their checks won't change that. I'd rather comply with their wishes and use an OS that actually wants me as a user.
I have two laptops that - even being 8 years and 4 years old fit the specs MS decided to set.
I still kicked itin the can. Am a happy Arch User & Ubuntu (will probably migrate that one to an Arch derivate as well, though) nowadays. I still use WIN11 in my day job. And it is an okay OS. I had worse. I had better.
What I find interesting is, that I gained on average 30 - 50% more battery time from the laptops I switched to Linux. It is quite unexpected and to me quite frankly amazing. I am writing this on my day job quite expensive Surface machine. I pulled it from the power connection to sit on the sofa about 20 minutes ago. My battery? At 73%. And I am running Firefox and PowerPoint at the moment (plus whatever corp crapware is installed underneath).
Except for exactly one set of tools (older Affinity progs) I have no need for WIN anymore. And as my day job provides a WIN machine...
My daily driver is a second hand W540 that was made in 2014 or so. It's got the maximum RAM that it will take (32G), and a larger HD, other than that it's just the same old box. It's indestructible and rock solid, drives three monitors and I couldn't be happier with it.
I can confirm this.
Honestly, I am really surprised this is a top comment here. This was an extremely easy work around. We are all mostly curious nerds here.
All this work because one couldn't google a easy work around?
Last time I tried Linux it sucked for gaming and I've spent hours trying to install a printer.
Not to excuse Microsoft in this situation, Linux is obviously more open.
Apple does this all the time, though, and seems to get a free pass here. I have four Macs in my home, and they are cut off at Ventura (for the 2017 iMac), Monterey (for the 2014 Mac Mini and the 2015 MacBook Air), and El Capitan (for the 2014 iMac). They are all stuck at 3, 4, and 5 major OS versions back. Nobody really seems to complain about this, though.
I don't think it's the same. On older Apple hardware, it just keeps on running on the older OS version. You don't get some new features or styling of the new OS, but nothing else changes. On Windows, it periodically brings up full-screen notifications that your hardware is obsolete and you need to upgrade, with the only options being to upgrade or "remind me again later".
That's great, but it's no silver bullet. We have a 4th Gen iPad that was used mostly for consumption. Only one of the streaming apps works with its ios version.
I just installed Opencore and run the newer OSs anyway. It will eventually not be an option when they come up with an ARM-only OS, but at the moment it seems to work ok.
Software in much more tied to the OS though. For example, Chrome is still compatible with Windows 10 which is more than 10 years old, while on macOS you cannot install it past Monterey (2021). Not to mention that also system applications are updated with the OS, so forget about using Safari
They don't get a free pass, I think people have spoken with their wallets and it shows with the user base counts: Windows 66–73%, macOS 14–16%, Linux 3–4%.
Apple seems to support their previous generation OS on older macs for ~8-9 years or so from what I've seen. You just don't get the latest generation features, they cut it off and move on similar to how Microsoft did.
Because Apple been continuously doing deprecating hardware regularly since the mid 90s. And they’ll processor architecture every 10-15 years.
Microsoft was the backward compatibility king.
Though it's kinda funny that Wine can run Windows applications that Windows can't.
Windows doesn't support 16bit apps anymore, but Wine (at least Wine <9.0) still does.
I think Apple gets a pass because they're a luxury product. For the record, even though Apple has some really impressive hardware, this is one of the reasons I'm not very big on Apple. People praise their phone's longevity all the time, but I think this is crazy. I could be running a 13 year old computer right now and it would work fine if I had Linux. Smartphones don't really have options for this due to the market capture. Apple's PC could be supported longer, but Apple isn't interested in doing it. (and apparently they change architectures every 15 years anyhow.)
> I think Apple gets a pass because they're a luxury product.
No they aren't. They've just convinced everyone that they are.
I've seen people meme about Android being for people who couldn't afford an iPhone when the fact is that a flagship Android costs just as much as an iPhone.
I ran iPhone 6 and 8 well beyond their years. I only replaced because the batteries were already replaced once. But otherwise the phone was fine. I have had same issues with laptops
because desktop Apple users have been domesticated for decades now and just accept whatever shows up in the feeding trough.
idk what other people give passes to, but I had been a Linux desktop user since the mid 90s and Mac laptop user since ~G3 iBook years and I finally gave up on their laptops a few years ago; so it's mainly linux-linux now
i think the last straw was the added telemetry that required so much effort to get rid of, but also for years they have made clear moves to make their laptops iOS-like progressively, which I cannot stand on so many levels
Apple will provide software and hardware support for any given product for at least 5 years. After those 5 years, you sometimes will still get security fixes.
The reason for this is that newer software will start using hardware features and capabilities that only exist on newer hardware, not because Tim Cook is evilly cackling in his office "hahhahha! Let's force people to buy new Macs!!!"
Apple's hardware products generally sell themselves.
Which Microsoft really should have been able to see coming, since it’s largely their money that’s being used to soak up all the supply of computing hardware.
Someone inside Microsoft probably did see it coming. That comic of their org chart being individual bubbles, all pointing guns at each other really does explain that company's behavior.
Microsoft doesn't seem to be one unified entity, but a bunch of smaller competing companies under the same umbrella, each trying to destroy the other.
Yep. Similar thing forced me off of Apple. They stopped making 17 inch laptops. They started soldering parts into place. Made it so you couldn’t open your own laptop to replace the HD.
Switched to Linux 8 years ago and haven't looked back.
I have a similar issue with Windows. The machine already dual-boots Linux, but it is simultaneously demanding Windows 11 and telling me that it doesn't support it. It's a three year old Ryzen, it plays every game I've thrown at it flawlessly - which admittedly is only just so many things, but if it could manage Oblivion Remastered at launch it should manage a bloody operating system surely.
I hear it might be some TPM thing. If so, it still seems like a bad decision to require this thing, and it's telling that I'm working on speculation here - it doesn't _tell_ me that's what it is.
Something is disabled in your BIOS. Ask an LLM to guide you.
I can solve this problem if I have to. Right now, I don't.
But I think you miss my core point. If "Ask an LLM" is the answer to this, Microsoft are doing an unforgivably shit job of maintaining Windows. Why on earth should that be necessary? Surely they can provide the minimum of information about why they think the upgrade isn't possible.
Microsoft asking to upgrade hardware reminds me of that old joke (from memory so excuse the bad story telling)
User: hello, my PC smokes and I would like to purchase an anti smoke software
Computer service: sorry it's not possible, you have to replace the hardware
User: no I really want an anti smoke software
(Later)
User: hello I would like to purchase a new computer
Service: see, I told you that an anti smoke software is not possible
User: wrong! I have purchased one from Microsoft. But apparently it's not compatible with my current hardware
.\setup.exe /product server /auto upgrade /EULA accept /migratedrivers all /ShowOOBE none /Compat IgnoreWarning /Telemetry DisableYeah, until microsoft says "Sup there lil buddy? Running an unsupported system? Oof. The next update is gonna really turn it inside-out"
This is exactly my experience - I have a Lenovo W530 from 2013, it has an i7, 32gb RAM and SSDs (RAID0 for performance, backups are off-device) - and it is STILL lightning fast.
However - EVERY single trick I have tried... the above command, LTSC, Enterprise edition, etc, results in a situation where after installation a few days (or hours) and some updates get installed, and... blue-screen-of-death on every boot.
Gave up, installed Linux - still working through some issues (GPU driver compatibility), but overall it is a much better experience...
I think at a certain point you need to just call it quits with that sort of bullshit. I have my dignity. I'm a fucking grown adult. I'm not going to spend my spare time haplessly looking online to unfuck the new current set of fuckery. Just take the fucking bullet. Learn linux. Congrats you're playing whack-a-mole with a trillion dollar corporation and prolonging your misery. This is stupid.
Yeah, microsoft will never change otherwise. People and companies continue to willingly allow themselves to get abused, and then wonder why Microsoft never changes and continues to abuse them.
So long as said abuse never results in a loss of marketshare and revenue, it will continue. Why would they stop if there's no negative repercussions?
Well that's never happened before (with Windows anyway), so it's not likely to happen now.
Where can one read the source code of setup.exe
That's, e.g., how I would determine what these commands do
I have had HN replies in the past that argued Windows is open source and thus comparable to UNIX-like OS projects where _the public_ can read the source code and make modifications, _for free_
Absent the source code, we can read Microsoft's documentation
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu...
It seems like WinPE is the most useful version of Windows, e.g., it allows more options to setup.exe
How does one quickly and easily download and install a copy of WinPE, preferably on removable media
The windows assessment and deployment kit is what you need, with the windows pe add-on: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu...
You should be aware there's a 3 day limit to uptime, then PE reboots. You can work around that: https://lsoft.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011128377-I-n...
The other thing to tell you is that this is not a live version of windows with all the features of the full desktop. It is the windows that runs the windows installer application, so enough windows to do that and no more.
I would personally recommend linux instead.
Whenever I see an unexplained command I don't understand from a random internet forum, I hop onto the production server and run it, just in case it might boost performance. Wouldn't want to miss out on that.
Been doing it since I was 12. It taught me all about the ins and outs of `rm`.
A work-around to install on unsupported hardware which both works, but is unsupported and could break during a feature Windows Update.
At this point I'd say it's more of a "would" than a "could"
A clever way to maximize the chances that your computer gets bricked on a future Patch Tuesday.
I've been using Linux for 20+ years, but I was fairly happy with Windows 11. At its core it did exactly what I needed it to do, and it allowed me to run some commercial software that is harder to install and run on Linux (Davinci Resolve).
But my Dell hardware drivers were flaky in Windows. My bluetooth had extremely variable availability. And then Windows rebooted itself, against my wishes, 3x in one week. And then there was the promise of Recall.
That's when I wiped Windows and installed Ubuntu. All my hardware issues went away (yes, I had to fiddle the sound driver a little so it didn't crack when it woke up from sleep, and I had to make one small change so suspend worked properly.. but both were easily solvable). My bluetooth has been flawless since and I was able to use my Logitech wireless mouse again.
I'm never going back.
I do a bit of napkin math on Apple Silicon single-threaded performance, GPU performance, and battery management against non-Macbook Air/Pro specs for same price. I follow DHH (who I otherwise object to) on his adventures with the Asus G14 machines.. but I'm not sure its GPU performance still matches the similarly priced Apple offering.
Less integrated OS, worse battery management, and weaker performance for more money? I'm not sure. But I'll probably still go that way.
The Intel/AMD laptop manufacturers need to get out from under Nvidia's hardware GPU thumb.
How so? Bluetooth has been working out of the box (no tinkering) for me under Linux for the past ten years now across multiple devices. Including stuff like APT-X and LDAC. All with proper OS integration (I use Gnome). What's the story on Windows?
Same here. The story for windows, IME, is that my work Logitech BT keyboard works fine, but neither my sony nor shure headphones work at all. Windows says connected, but then disconnects right away. On the same PC which dual-boots linux, they both work fine, with LDAC for the sony and apt-x hd for the shure.
At work, we have BT Jabra headsets. I specifically asked for a corded version, I hate the latency for calls. My windows-using colleagues, for some reason, love wearing a wireless headset and talking through the laptop microphone.
Agreed. Given my expectation of travel, it's probably the sanest choice. Esp with the Stores for service.
I am in the same boat. Running Windows 10 on a Ryzen 5 until the cows come home. I run Rocky Linux in my laptop but I am a gamer so I'll hold to Windows 10. Some Linux Distros are bringing AI. Not ready for that.
> “you can’t install unless you upgrade your CPU”
To be fair, I recently had to switch distros for my little Atom-based server because of a similar deal:
https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:X86-64-Architecture-Levels#...
Granted, I only had to convert to Tumbleweed (not trivial, but easier than reinstalling), and the open source nature means there will always be lots of other alternatives, too.
I bought it in late 2013, so 12 years from purchase.
Intel lists the launch date of the CPU (Atom D2500) as Q3'11, making it 14 years old when OpenSUSE Leap 16 was released.
It looks like Intel was releasing Atom CPUs without SSE4.1/4.2 up until 2013, e.g. Atom Z2420.
My story is even simpler. I have a friend who wanted to upgrade to Windows 11 because 10 is losing support. I wrote the Windows 11 installer to my flash drive using Rufus. It worked perfectly. I'm not expecting a man who has no interest in learning Linux to change.
I'm sure there's a million reasons not to, but they could even just open-source Windows 10. Leave you alone with the hardware that you rightfully purchased, and let the community police the security gaps that arise. It's beyond me how planned obsolescence especially on perfectly sufficient hardware is even legal.
That’s not what open source means / how it works.
It's likely a large percentage of that code is also used in win 10 - it’s not like 11 was a complete rewrite.
This was very useful for me. Force install Windows 11: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45853012
A future update may restrict access to your windows or break its ability to get further updates. It’s a matter of time. They just haven’t gotten around to it.
And if you’re thinking you’ll just Google another solution then you might as well spend that time googling efforts for Linux. Windows shouldn’t require constant hacking or tinkering to function.
> because my CPU was 5 years too old apparently.
And yet Nadella writes this:
"For AI to have societal permission it must have real world eval impact. The choices we make about where we apply our scarce energy, compute, and talent resources will matter."
Apparently resources are only "scarce" when Microsoft needs them. When it comes to your consumer outcomes you have to throw away working equipment and buy new.
I use remmina, which uses xfreerdp under the hood. It works well, but I haven't managed to get smartcard authentication working, if that matters for your environment.
>no upgrade path to Windows 11 because my CPU was 5 years too old apparently.
Let's be real. It's because new systems support DRM and Microsoft has been captured by the media company lobby.
Yeah I caught a lot of downvotes for coming out early against it.
It’s way worse than that. It’s for verified identity and attestation.
Of course it is, there's no real requirement to have a TPM, plenty of people made a version with that requirement patched out and the system works fine.
The scary part of HN these days is that I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic
> There is a marketing lesson there somewhere. Microsoft once had the IT world at its feet, because not only was its Windows 9x OSes ubiquitous everywhere, but it had many millions of programmers who had become experts at Visual Basic and Visual C++, so almost all corporates used programs written in these easy to learn, not too difficult to master, fun to program in (yay for Intellisense and Drag-n-drop ActiveX controls), and versatile despite some limitations. This was also the era where many corporates had complicated databases set up in MS Access or MS SQL Server, because they were easily accessible and usable from front-end applications written in VC or VC++.
Microsoft even evolved it all to adapt to and compete with new ideas from rivals, such as COM+ as alternative to CORBA, ASP.Net as alternative to JSP, etc.
Then Microsoft did the unthinkable. It inexplicably threw away all these IT dependencies away, that it had spent decades to build across the worlr.
Microsoft unleashed .Net on an unsuspecting IT world.
And M$ arrogantly expected the world to also throw all their years of efforts of building applications and databases revolving around VB/VC++.
To save their careers, millions of VB/VC++ programmers tried hard to scramble and learn these new technologies, but Microsoft just kept updating and upgrading the .Net landscape with increasing frequency and leading to more chaos and confusions. And as the learning curve steeper and the .Net scope became too hard for sane people to master in a short time, it became apparent that to the entire IT world (except Microsoft) that it had become too difficult and cumbersome to build applications for corporations using Microsoft's new-age tools. Thus, the interest and ambitions of the programmers and corporations quickly waned towards Microsoft tools, especially when they realised that .Net was a mess for installations, and it called expensive licenses to build and ship.
So programmers and SOHO/medium-scale companies, pivoted to alternatives to Microsoft imposed nightmares. Python, PHP, MySQL, Linux, Perl, Ruby, JavaScript, JSP, etc. took centre stage, even as the IT world moved away from .Net.
The worldwide chaos caused by Windows Vista and Windows 8, did nothing to improve upon IT people's disdain for all things Microsoft.
And Microsoft's rivals pounced at such golden opportunities, and they slowly ate away at Microsoft's dominance in corporate world.
Yes, there is indeed some lessons for Micro$oft to be learnt from these debacles.
"Hubris calls for nemesis, and in one form or another it's going to get it, not as a punishment from outside but as the completion of a pattern already started." ~ Mary Midgley
"And on the pedestal these words appear: 'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away." ~ Percy Bysshe Shelley, Ozymandias
I saw a vid where they installed a recent version of linux on a Pentium 1.
> You had unsaved work? Too bad, it's gone, get bent.
This has happened to me a couple of times. I put the PC to sleep and the next morning I discover it has decided to close everything to install an update.
Not using Windows ever again to do any work. Say what you will about Apple but at least they don't do crap like this.
While my instinctual reaction is the same, that's only because I've been hurt by losing work the same way presumable everybody else has. But that's all because Windows hasn't elected to solve this problem.
Macs (largely) don't have this problem, so it's clearly solvable. There isn't any inherent law of computing or the universe that says it should be this way.
I still press CMD+S on Macs every time I'm done typing in something, but that's only because I've been hurt and live with the trauma, so to speak. There's no reason to hurt others to learn a lesson that doesn't actually have any value.
I installed Windows Update Blocker (AKA "WUB") and i've stopped the nonsense shutdowns late at night.
That helped stopping the aggravation, but lets see how long I last. I do feel my next computer will be a Linux OS ... but i'm not a programmer and I wince at having to do all the wine installs fresh...
Correct. Windows is not a serious operating system. It really never has been. I've been on desktop linux for decades now. Linux is a serious operating system. Nothing happens without you asking it too. My linux computers are never turned off, since they day I turn them on, except for the occasional kernel upgrade. Otherwise, all upgrades are live. Even most kernel upgrades can be avoided if you use one of the modern patch frameworks
I literally cannot count the number of times I put my Linux computer to sleep and it just doesn't wake up, and I have to hard reset the power to get it to do anything. I would never leave anything unsaved open for an extended period of time on a graphical Linux system.
Happens 90% of the time on my standard Elitebook laptop when I run windows. It just crashes and has the fan going crazy. On Linux it's been fine since day one, some 5 years ago.
But this is a bug, and it's very different from the OS voluntarily rebooting without your consent.
the flip side of this is I can't count the number of times that cropping a screenshot in paint and leaving it in the background has partially stopped my PC from rebooting, and I've discovered the following morning that "you have unsaved work" on paint interrupted the shutdown and i need to do the shutdown _again_.
The fact that you leave unsaved work overnight is the actual crazy part.
Why though? On Mac, I have tons of unsaved work: many TextEdit windows which keep their state for many months, even through reboots. And it has been working like for at least 10 years. It's such a simple, little quality-of-life thing. And Microsoft just doesn't care.
This is what a computer should be doing: helping the user to get their work done, without the user having to worry about insignificant details about saving files. E.g. does Google Docs ever ask where to save a file before closing the browser or shutting down the computer? No you just get an untitled document that is automatically saved. If I want to rename it or save it in a different location, I am free to do so. But as long as I don't, it doesn't get in the way and just persists stuff automatically.
I don't disagree, but you have to know which applications reliably keep their state across restarts. You can't blindly rely on it on any desktop system. The Microsoft Office applications actually do auto-save documents since a couple of years ago, even though the recovery UX can be a bit awkward.
What Microsoft doesn't care about is that you may have applications running that don't do that, when Windows reboots for updates.
Of course, everyone has their own workflow. I won't tell anyone to adjust their workflow. But the exact point I was trying to make is that it's not random apps. It's specific apps that one knows about and how they behave. And once you know those apps (like TextEdit, Google Docs, etc) you can pretty much rely on it to survive reboots and power outages.
There's plenty of tasks that can take hours that don't save their progress. E.g. running a simulation, training an AI model, rendering video. Or, these days, leaving agentic AI models running in a loop implementing tasks.
Even if the state is recoverable, it doesn't mean that it's simple to recover.
I would be infuriated if my OS decided to shut itself down without permission.
I've been running Ubuntu Linux for a long time now (over a decade, started with 8.04). Linux still has it's fair share of bugs but I'll take having to deal with those over running Windows or MacOS any day.
For me the biggest thing is control, with Windows there are some things like updates that you have zero control over. It's the same issue with MacOS, you have more control than Windows but you're still at the whims of Apple's design choices every year when they decide to release a new OS update.
Linux, for all it's issues, give you absolute control over your system and as a developer I've found this one feature outweighs pretty much all the issues and negatives about the OS. Updates don't run unless I tell them to run, OS doesn't upgrade unless I tell it to. Even when it comes to bugs at least you have the power to fix them instead of waiting on an update hoping it will resolve that issue. Granted in reality I wait for updates to fix various small issues but for bigger ones that impact my workflow I will go through the trouble of fixing it.
I don't see regular users adopting Linux anytime soon but I'm quickly seeing adoption pickup among the more technical community. Previously only a subset of technical folks actually ran Linux because Windows/MacOS just worked but I see more and more of them jumping ship with how awful Windows and MacOS have become.
I remember when Ubuntu decided to reroute apt installations into SNAP installs. So you install a package via apt and there was logic to see if they should disregard your command and install a SNAP instead. Do they still do that?
It annoyed me so much that I switched to mint.
> Do they still do that?
Yes. I know its more than firefox, but I don't have the full list. On 24.04:
me@comp:~$ apt info firefox | head -n 5
WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.
Package: firefox
Version: 1:1snap1-0ubuntu7
Priority: optional
Section: web
Origin: Ubuntu
me@comp:~$I agree with the sentiment but I keep Snap disabled because I like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE) for its rock solid stability.
The control is both a blessing and a curse. It’s really easy to accidentally screw things up when e.g. trying to polish some of the rough edges or otherwise make the system function as desired. It also may not be of any help if the issue you’re facing is too esoteric for anybody else to have posted about it online (or for LLMs to be of any assistance).
It would help a lot if there were a distro that was polished and complete enough that most people – even those of us who are more technical and are more demanding – rarely if ever have any need to dive under the hood. Then the control becomes purely an asset.
Those and other big distros are better in that regard, but they're still not perfect. Depending on one's machine and needs, there can still be pain.
One recent example I experienced is jumping through hoops to get virtualization enabled in Fedora… it takes several steps that are not obvious at all. I understand not having it enabled by default since many won't need it, but there's no reason that can't just be a single CLI command that does it all.
> It’s really easy to accidentally screw things up when e.g. trying to polish some of the rough edges or otherwise make the system function as desired.
'Similar to Windows' System Restore and macOS's Time Machine', the Linux 'Timeshift' tool can be used to do make periodic saves of your OS files & settings. (They can be saved elsewhere.) Restoration is a cinch.
Mint program 'Backup Tool' allows users to save and restore files within their home directory (incl. config folder and separately installed apps).
You do have to know what you're doing. A complete OS has a bunch of components that work together. But an out of the box distro hides all that do you end up fiddling with incomplete knowledge.
Gentoo is great for learning what all the individual components are. You install it by booting a kernel from a USB stick then chrooting into your newly installed system to start installing and configuring everything. Just knowing the existence of individual components helps a lot. Plus Gentoo gives you more control than almost any other distro (much more than Arch, for example).
> I've been running Ubuntu Linux for a long time now...Linux still has it's fair share of bugs...
> I don't see regular users adopting Linux anytime soon...
I can see why you think the second statement is true based on the first statements. When Ubuntu switched their desktop to Gnome, they gave up on being the best Linux desktop distro. I'd recommend you to try Linux Mint.
> switched their desktop to Gnome, they gave up on being the best Linux desktop distro.
Mint is also based on GNOME.
Let me recommend Fedora to you Timbit.
Debian family is outdated and builds with bugs upon release.
I too was corrupted by Ubuntu's marketing strategy of being popular and using the misleading word 'Stable'.
I tried Fedora once. On a fresh install, all it did was clog up all the hard drive space with error logs within 3 days.
I'm not interested in any distro that is controlled by a corporation. IBM is a corporation and they already screwed up CentOS and is eventually going to screw up Fedora someday because that's what corporations do, and I'm not interesting in going through that.
You have your fun running Fedora for now but know you're going to get burned someday.
Well, to start they tried putting Amazon ads in Unity's Dock which was also doing data collection, but removed them after the backlash.
Then they switched to Gnome, meaning they gave up on their own desktop, Unity, so they were no longer dictating what their desktop was like, so how much did they care?
Since then they have replaced a number of apps with SNAPs which are only available from Canonical so many people see it as an attempt to corner the Linux market. Many see AppImages and Flatpacks as better than SNAPs.
They are a company. They exist to make money. Of course they are going to decide to do things that make more money and annoy their users.
>Linux still has it's fair share of bugs
>Linux, for all it's issues
You are confusing debian-family with Linux. Debian family is designed to be outdated upon release. When they say "Stable" it doesn't mean 'Stable like a table'. It means version fixed. You get outdated software that has bugs baked into it.
Fedora is modern and those bugs are fixed already.
Reminder Fedora is not Arch. Don't confuse the two.
Its was a good read until at the end ...
> For the remainder of 2026, Microsoft is cooking up a big one: replacing more and more native apps with React Native. But don't let the name fool you, there's nothing "native" about it. These are projects designed to be easily ported across any machine and architecture, because underneath it all, it's just JavaScript. And each one spawns its own Chromium process, gobbling up your RAM so you can enjoy the privilege of opening the Settings app.
I'm a little tired of people junking on react native when they have no clue what they talked about (And I'm not even react native dev but iOS dev). React Native doesn't spawn any chromium process. This is not electron. React Native doesn't even use v8 engine. All UI views and widgets are native. Platform SDK is native, Yoga Layout is native C++ and even faster than UIKit layout. Majority of RN code is Native - go have a look at github at languages section. JS is only 19% of codebase, everything else is C++, Obj-C, Obj-C++, Kotlin, Java.
The problem AFAIK with startup being laggy was making http requests to downloads those ads.
> React Native doesn't even use v8 engine
Are you saying you would use React Native with a language other than JS?
Engines other than v8 exist. React Native uses Hermes or JavaScriptCore (Apple/Safari). [0]
Other engines include SpiderMonkey (Mozilla/Firefox) [1] and QuickJS [2]
[0]: https://reactnative.dev/docs/javascript-environment
I'm still surviving on Windows but only because over the last four years, as each new annoyance and regression arose, I made the mistake of very gradually, in tiny increments, sinking the time into invoking the arcane incantations necessary to tame each one.
15 minutes to deactivate an entire branch of notification pathways, 20 minutes to (mostly) restore the Right-Ctrl key they hijacked into a CoPilot key. 10 minutes to restore Win10 functionality to the Win11 taskbar with the wonderful ExplorerPatcher. $5 spent on Start11 to sidestep the whole start menu train wreck. And little 3 to 5 minute fixes with WindHawk (an amazing store-like platform to discover, install and manage open source Windows GUI patches).
I'm the stupid frog who didn't leap from the gradually heating pot. I acclimated to the boiling. And it's... okay. At least for now. But I know someday soon, the thousand faceless product managers at MSFT will break something unfixable. Somehow exceed the considerable abilities of the large community finding clever hacks and patches to keep the harsh Win wasteland livable for hardy souls.
While I greatly appreciate Linux philosophically and deeply respect it architecturally, I still really liked what Windows got so close to being - right before MSFT shifted biz models, simultaneously de-investing and turning it into a promotional platform for their other business. When that day comes, it'll suck to leave behind the wonderful third-party tools like Everything search, Ditto clipboard and AHK automation that streamline my day.
The thing I don't understand is why MSFT refuses to just make a version of Windows that's a Product again. I'd gladly pay them $100/yr for an upgraded "Windows Ti Super+" that just wants to be a good operating system for advanced users, instead of a strategic moat or monetization flywheel.
I never realized Windows tuning was a thing (WindHawk, Start11). Thank you for mentioning those.
I recently had to install Windows 11 to play a video game that runs janky on Linux, and I am encountering all the annoying problems people are describing in this thread (forced updates, full-screen ads, etc). It does not bother me too much, since I effectively use Windows only to play that one game. But maybe I can tune Windows 11 into something less obtrusive with the custom hacks. Thanks.
You're welcome. One of the best things I did once I realized I was reluctantly on this journey, was start keeping notes in a cloud backed-up file of every registry setting I tweaked or little utility I installed. Just a quick cut and paste to remind me.
Of course some of the notes become stale or irrelevant as things evolve but it's still invaluable insurance if this Windows install eventually gets crufty and needs to be hosed out for a fresh start (which eventually happens even with diligent hygiene). Also, don't forget ExplorerPatcher which restores some essential Win10 taskbar and explorer functionality MSFT removed from Win11 (promising to eventually replace with new code but now, years later, obviously never will). It's clear at this point MSFT isn't devoting any serious effort toward re-implementing previous functionality or creating new features for power users.
AFAICT, the only things getting meaningful funding now are fixing critical 0days / bugs, reworking the interface to create "more exposure vectors to support corporate initiatives" and a couple under-resourced teams clearing only the most critical technical debt threatening the whole edifice. Meanwhile, every PM or UX designer who suggests "Hey, it'd be easier to just decide that new feature or unrestored functionality will just confuse 'our average user'" gets promoted. I just feel sorry for the engineers still there who joined the Windows team wanting to build toward a state-of-the-art operating system supporting a powerful, flexible, extensible, customizable user interface. Now it's "If it ain't broken, there's no funding to fix it" and "If it just broke, see if we can just remove it instead of fixing it", "if it's there but incomplete, remove what's there, patch over the hole and we'll pretend it was never there." And finally, "You seem ambitious and diligent, we just wish you'd align your interests with current strategic priorities (ie sticking AI where it doesn't belong or pushing Office, cloud, etc subs)."
Shhh! Don’t tell anyone.
Years ago MS depended on Windows. It was the profit center. Everything MS did was a moat to sell more seats. Even MS-Exchange was just a ploy to force enterprises to stop deploying any other operating system.
That all changed with Azure.
MS realized they could make billions in Windows or trillions with Azure.
They changed the org structure. Now Azure is at the top and everything else is a moat or a way to draw people to Azure. They changed the sales commission (your multiplier doesn’t kick in unless you’ve sold enough cloud services).
Windows is no longer a profit center. It’s a cost center.
Anything that scares people away from using Windows is a benefit.
Let those other suckers spend money developing operating systems. As long as it runs on a VM in Azure, Microsoft will profit.
Windows being worse and worse isn’t a bug. It’s a feature.
I agree, at this point it seems clear that Windows is not their priority anymore and they're trying to scare its users away. But Windows is so penetrated into everyone's office, industry and home that they shouldn't be allowed by law to just leave it like this.
My story is simpler. Microsoft dropped the support for Windows 10 and gave me no upgrade path to Windows 11 because my CPU was 5 years too old apparently.
So I installed Fedora on that machine, I learned the process, I went through the hurdles. It wasn’t seamless. But, Fedora never said “I can’t”. When it was over, it was fine.
Only if Microsoft had just let me install Windows 11 and suffer whatever the perf problem my CPU would bring. Then I could consider a hardware upgrade then, maybe.
But, “you can’t install unless you upgrade your CPU” forced me to adopt Linux. More importantly, it gave me a story to tell.
There is a marketing lesson there somewhere, like Torvalds’ famous “you don’t break userspace”, something along the lines of “you don’t break the upgrade path”.