Comment by Arch-TK

Comment by Arch-TK 4 hours ago

60 replies

It sets a bad precedent to call things like this hacks.

Firstly, calling this redaction implies that the data is missing, and calling what was done "unredacting" is akin to saying someone "decrypted" a cryptographic hash function.

Nobody unredacted anything here, they merely discovered that it hadn't been redacted, and simply looked like it was redacted.

Calling this a hack places responsibility on the people who discovered the information, rather than on the people were put in charge of handling the redaction and screwed it up.

pwg 3 hours ago

The journalist writing the story has the same level of technical knowledge about how to "redact" properly in the digital realm as the individuals doing the redaction. To the journalist, with zero knowledge of the technical aspects, viewing the "redacted" document, it appears to be "redacted", so when someone "unredacts" it, the action of revealing the otherwise hidden material appears to be "magical" to them (in the vein of the Arthur C Clarke quote of: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic").

To the journalist, it looks like "hackers at work" because the result looks like magic. Therefore their editor attaching "hacks" to the title for additional clickbait as well.

To us technical people, who understand the concept of layers in digital editing, it is no big deal at all (and is not surprising that some percentage of the PDF's have been processed this way).

  • sallveburrpi 3 hours ago

    I would consider it gross negligence on the journalists part to not know the technical details here.

    It’s really not that hard; as someone else on this thread pointed out even my grandma knows this…

    You can find out the technical details in one quick search.

    How someone like this gets a paying job as a journalist is beyond me.

    • pixl97 2 hours ago

      >How someone like this gets a paying job as a journalist is beyond me.

      You seem highly confused on what a journalists job is in this era. Very few publishers are about correctness. It's about speed of getting the article out and getting as many eyeballs as possible to look at the ads in the article.

      Or as the saying goes, A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on.

      • sallveburrpi 2 hours ago

        You could easily replace them with an LLM if that were the case.

        Although I don’t completely disagree with your cynical take I don’t think that’s actually the case for most of the Guardians journalists, they do a lot of quality reporting too

    • BurningFrog an hour ago

      It's important to understand who becomes a journalist in this age.

      It's people who are very good with words, and at talking to anyone and everyone about anything, both is a friendly and confrontation way.

      They also have almost no understanding of math, science or technology. If they did, they'd get better paying jobs.

      Journalism used to be a well paid prestigious career that attracted brilliant people. There is not enough money in what's left of that industry to do that anymore.

      • tsunamifury 2 minutes ago

        Haha. I was a journalist for many years. I went to UC Berkeley. I likely current have a far better paying job than you and have invented technical concepts that founded the LLM.

        Me thinks the fool speaks of himself.

      • Avicebron 28 minutes ago

        I agree they have no understanding of math, science or technology. But I disagree with your assessment of motivations to get "better paying jobs", most people who went into journalism I knew were in brownstones right out of college. They didn't need the money, they inherited it, it was the lifestyle they were after.. that's why we get the journalism we do..

      • pessimizer 12 minutes ago

        I think you have the source of the problem wrong. It's just rich kids who don't actually need the salary, and want to align to a point of view that gets them a contract to write a book, so they get invited to the right parties. They don't know anything, or care about anything.

        Journalism school is "eye-wateringly" expensive:

        > J-school attendees might get a benefit from their journalism degree, but it comes at an eye-watering cost. The price tag of the Columbia Journalism School, for instance, is $105,820 for a 10-month program, $147,418 for a 12-month program, or $108,464 per year for a two-year program. That’s a $216,928 graduate degree, on top of all the costs associated with gaining the undergraduate prerequisites. (Columbia, it seems important to say, is also the publisher of Columbia Journalism Review, the publication you’re now reading.)

        https://www.cjr.org/special_report/do-we-need-j-schools.php

        > It's people who are very good with words,

        They are also not good with words.

    • kiba 2 hours ago

      To us, it's a life skill. To a non-technical person, it's black magic.

      Some folks had to be taught on how folder structures work because they grew up with the appliance we called a "phone" as opposed to a real computer that also happened to be known as a "phone".

      • phantasmish 2 hours ago

        I can assure you that plenty of people who were using computers before smartphones, and who have used them every day at work for decades, also do not grasp what we could consider the very basics of file management.

      • p-e-w 2 hours ago

        > To us, it's a life skill. To a non-technical person, it's black magic.

        I’m sorry, but “this text is black on black background; the actual letters are still there” isn’t “black magic” unless someone is being deliberately obtuse.

    • pwg 2 hours ago

      Most journalists are ex. English majors (or some other non-technical degree). I would not expect any (even the supposed tech. journalists) to understand the technology they report upon to the level that us here on HN understand that same technology.

      Their job is to write coherent articles that gather views, not truly understand what it is they are writing about. That's why the Gell-Mann Amnesia [1] aspect so often crops up for any technical article (hint, it also crops up for every article, but we don't recognize the mistakes the journalist makes in the articles where we don't have the underlying knowledge to recognize the mistakes).

      [1] https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/

    • Fricken 2 hours ago

      >some of the file redaction can be undone with Photoshop techniques, or by simply highlighting text to paste into a word processing file.

      That's the first sentence of the article, and that's all there is to it.

    • [removed] an hour ago
      [deleted]
  • seba_dos1 3 hours ago

    It's not a hard technical concept to grasp that placing a stick-it onto some thing doesn't make the thing behind it disappear.

    • pwg 2 hours ago

      No, it is not. But given the abysmal lack of technical knowledge of the "typical computer user" they don't see the redacted PDF's as "having black stick-it notes stuck on top of the text". They see the PDF as having had a "black marker pen" applied that has obliterated the text from view.

      When someone then shows them how to copy/paste out the original text, because the PDF was simply black stick-it notes above the text, it appears to them as if that someone is a magical wizard of infinite intelligence.

  • skeltoac 2 hours ago

    The journalist is not necessarily responsible for the title. Editors often change those and they don’t need to get the approval of the journalist. The editor knows what they are doing and that it will irk some tech folks.

    • streetnoodles 30 minutes ago

      I seriously doubt the journalist doesn’t understand exactly how this “hack” worked too. Right in the first paragraph, “simply highlighting text to paste into a word processing file.”

      A lot of people in the thread here are calling them a non-technical English major who doesn’t understand the technology. Word processors also happen to be the tools of their trade, I am sure they understand features of Word better than most of the computer science majors in this thread…

    • pwg 2 hours ago

      As far as creating a click bait title, yep, the editor knows what they are doing, and most likely picked the word for the click bait factor.

      But I'd also bet the editors technical knowledge of how this "revelation" of the hidden material really works is low enough that it also appears to be magic to them as well. So they likely think it is a 'hack' as well.

  • SilasX 2 hours ago

    This. Similar issue if you introduce someone to how you can "view source" and then edit (your view of) a website. They're like "omg haxors!"

    True story: one time I used that technique to ask for a higher credit card limit than the options the website presented. Interestingly enough, they handled it gracefully by sending me a rejection for a higher amount and an acceptance for the maximum offered amount (the one I edited). And I didn't get arrested for hacking!

    • sebastiennight an hour ago

      I have helped someone get an executive job at a Fortune 500 company... by teaching them how to use the dev tools and edit the DOM to replace text and images.

      They had been asked for an assignment as part of the interview process, where they were supposed to make suggestions regarding the company's offers. They showed up on the (MS teams) interview having revamped what looked like the live website (www. official website was visible in the browser bar).

      The interviewers gave them the job pretty much on the spot, but did timidly ask at the end "do you mind putting it back though, for now?", which we still laugh about 5 years later

    • sillyfluke 2 hours ago

      > "view source" and then edit (your view of) a website.

      Yes, but you see it says "view source" not "edit page live". Don't really see why it wouldn't be "omg" for them.

  • seg_lol 2 hours ago

    > The journalist writing the story has the same level of technical knowledge ...

    You are supposing. The article doesn't read like that at all. Your post smells of exceptional tech elitism.

figassis 8 minutes ago

I agree, but this would mean that almost anything can’t be called hacking, bc it usually relies on vulnerabilities and implementation defects. If something is poorly encrypted and you retrieve data, you didn’t hack because it wasn’t encrypted to begin with. That can’t be the standard.

stingraycharles 3 hours ago

I also like to think this was maybe done as a form of malicious compliance. Someone inside the agency was tasked with redacting this, and found a way to sneak the information through but still getting it passed by their supervisors, so that the information got out.

  • sallveburrpi 2 hours ago

    To me this is the only explanation that makes sense. However wouldn’t they risk repercussions when this is inevitably found out? I assume they have records who redacted which documents

    • DerArzt 2 hours ago

      Some peopledo things acknowledging that there may be backlash for an action when they feel it's the right thing to do.

    • stingraycharles 2 hours ago

      Yes they may get fired, but it will be difficult to prove intent and very easy to claim incompetence.

      So I don’t think there will be jail time if that’s what you’re referring to.

      • seg_lol 2 hours ago

        The mal-redacted file actually points to a crime itself of redacting things it shouldn't have.

        • fwip an hour ago

          Or, if there is indeed an ongoing investigation on those two, it could be leaking that fact, right?

blitzar 3 hours ago

Furthermore, this happens so often, so frequently, in so many high profile cases that even my 80 year old mother knows this "secret hack to unredact a pdf".

If you are CIA / FBI / Court / Lawyer or professional full time redactor of documents you should know that the highlighter doesn't delete the text underneath it.

afavour 3 hours ago

You’re absolutely correct but I think your comment also highlights something important: we don’t have a good word to represent what it is

Unfortunately “hack” became a catch all word long ago. Just look at “life hacks”.

  • kungito 3 hours ago

    They failed to redact data. That's it. People just read the files afterwards, only formatting was wierd.

    • silveira 2 hours ago

      If you unlock a lock, that's still a lock.

      Also, in light of everything that is happening, is incredible that the top comment on this thread is about some minor semantic definitions.

      • pessimizer a few seconds ago

        There's nothing else to say about this. Also, your comment is nested even deeper within the same semantic squabbling, so it's odd that you think that it's a waste of time in light of more important things that you are also not talking about.

      • shkkmo an hour ago

        And it is still a lock if it was just hanging there and not actually locked as in this case.

    • afavour an hour ago

      I think that doesn’t do the scenario justice. They tried to redact and did so in a way that looks visibly redacted (in screenshots many have seen) but can be uncovered.

      If you say “they failed to redact data” to a layperson looking at a visibly redacted document they’re going to be confused.

    • lo_zamoyski 3 hours ago

      They're likely viewing the electronic documents by analogy to photocopies with blacked out sections where there is nothing to distinguish the text from the redacting marks and nothing you can project out. They don't know the structure of the file format and how information in it is encoded or rendered, or even that there is a distinction between encoding and rendering.

      (A better analogy might be the original physical document with redaction marks. If the text is printed using a laser printer or a type writer, and the marker used for redaction uses some other kind of ink - let's say one that doesn't dissolve the text's ink or toner in any way - then you can in principle distinguish between the two and thus recover visibility of the text.)

      • calgoo 2 hours ago

        To complicated, the people doing the redacting pasted digital stickers ontop of the text, people are just removing the stickers.

  • mannykannot 3 hours ago

    How about "the documents were clarified" or "their contents were revealed"? Maybe "formatted for reading on your device"?

  • epolanski 2 hours ago

    Just like my friends and family call everything AI now.

    Special effects in movies? AI

    Some edited photo? AI

    Illustration for advertising? AI

    • paraselene_ an hour ago

      To be fair, I put partial blame on the advertisers. They've been claiming "AI" on their products on anything that has an algorithm basically for the past few years.

  • jasonlotito 2 hours ago

    > You’re absolutely correct

    They are not. They are factually incorrect. Look up the various definitions of redacted. They fit perfect for the title. Arguing otherwise suggests you are making up definitions and words, in which case, I am still correct.

jrochkind1 43 minutes ago

It does seem to raise the risk that someone would be prosecuted for DMCA violation if we refer to it that way.

e38383 3 hours ago

Thank you, I came here just to verify that no "hack" was involved.

braiamp 2 hours ago

Considering that only the title of the article says "hacks", I would say this is the editor decision.

inopinatus 3 hours ago

Here on the hacking news website we sure are persnickety about the difference.

GuB-42 2 hours ago

The funny part is that people with screen readers may have gone through the redaction without realizing it.

BoredPositron an hour ago

I think we should all come to terms with it that "hack" doesn't mean anything anymore so we don't have to fight over words that were never clearly defined anyways. On most days this site here should be called "frontendnews".

jasonlotito 2 hours ago

I find it funny to use a hack to argue about the misuse of words and definitions.

Regardless, redaction does not imply that data is missing. The words were censored or obscured. That's it. Simply looking at the documents proves that. Interacting with them showed how easy they were to uncensor, but the simplicity of the method doesn't change facts.

By all means, complain about definitions and words, but get it right.

TZubiri 2 hours ago

It also removes blame from the departments that redacted, it's not like they messed up big time, no, some resourceful brainiac hackers did things that were not allowed to undo the redaction process that was put in place to protect victims.

lloydatkinson an hour ago

Calling everything a hack is the only way to make tech illiterate boomers and zoomers alike understand anything.