Comment by paxys

Comment by paxys 2 days ago

18 replies

I remember the time when smart homes used to feature in sci-fi literature and concept videos. Being able to walk around your house while having everything seamlessly synced and tailored to your preferences was clearly the future. TV, movies and music automatically playing in whatever room your enter. Files and all other data seamlessly synced between all your devices. Not having to think about how to make the tech work, because it all just works.

The frustrating thing is that we've had all the tech to make this possible for at least 10-20 years now. Yet "smart" homes are getting worse with every passing year. Why? Because consumer technology is monopolized by a handful of large corporations whose goal isn't to make people's lives easier but build walled gardens and restrictions to best extract every last cent.

everdrive 2 days ago

As with so much technology, the technology exists in part to provide a service to the customer, but more and more it exists to direct the customer into the behaviors desired by the technology owner and its advertising partners. This isn't always so evil or insidious, but the point stands that Netflix (or almost any modern service) doesn't want you to do what _you_ want with your devices. It wants to direct you towards whatever is most beneficial to Netflix. These companies don't really serve their customers, except confusingly, customers keep paying for these services.

  • cadamsdotcom 2 days ago

    The problem is, opting out doesn’t provide signal by reallocating market share. It just shrinks the market.

    • everdrive a day ago

      That's only a problem if you ever expect the market to serve your needs. I'm not _very_ old (early 40s) but it's starting to dawn on me that this will never happen in a major way, and I think the only path forward is to abstain.

joking 2 days ago

there was an ad, or a presentation in a conference keynote, from when microsoft built phones, showing a user leaving the house and continuing what was he doing in the car in a very futuristic way. I can't find it now, but was something crazy by then, the continuum idea was also a good one, but here we are, walled gardens and nothing smart about them.

  • dredmorbius 2 days ago

    Look up the AT&T "You Will" advertising campaign sometime. This ran beginning in 1993, and I remember seeing at least a few of the spots at the time.

    What these ads (and much speculative fiction, say, Arthur C. Clark particularly the "newspads" (tablet computers) in 2001 and "minisecs" (smartphones) in Imperial Earth) portrayed was capabilities without consideration of commercial and market imperatives. Capabilities promised empowerment and enablement. Markets delivered enshitiffication and enclosures of commons.

    And as Timothy B. Lee noted, "the ads were mostly wrong about one thing: the company that brought these technologies to the world was not AT&T". AT&T's networks deliver much of the content and messaging which was portrayed, but the services themselves are not rooted in AT&T, either the original firm or its remonopolised successor organisation.

    <https://www.vox.com/2014/9/6/6113853/we-live-in-the-future-a...>

    Microsoft's vision was portrayed as well in the Bill Gates book The Road Ahead, published about the same time (1995). Again, it envisioned much, but little of that vision was delivered directly by Microsoft (though much of it was in fact experienced on computers running Microsoft's operating system, at least until the smartphone revolution supplanted it).

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Ahead_(Gates_book)>

sharperguy a day ago

Abolishing copyright and patent law would pretty much solve this.

jauntywundrkind 2 days ago

It's notable that often we have protocols to tie things together. UPnP/DLNA/Miracast have existed for a long time now & have included standards for media playing, light control, others. And many TV's have even implemented!!

I feel like what has always been trickier is control and coordination. There haven't been many people to step up and own the higher level, the thing that coordinates devices.

It's notable to me that recent successful cast protocols (like Netflix+YouTube's original DIAL, Chromecast) have really simplified. Are bottom up flows. They have allowed the phone (second screen) apps to have a direct way to cast, inside the app. To one other screen, to such an extent that multi-room audio works by first making a group that then presents in the app as one device. (Sonos' proprietary casting is the notable exception.) Where-as historically casting was possible but often used dedicated apps, a UPnP Control Point, that talked to a different UPnP Media Renderer to point it at various UPnP Media Servers. A tri-part system, with control as the third point.

Netflix hypothetically could have used the UPnP to do casting. Phone acts as a Media Server (but serves up one-time-use URLs on the net for actual media) to the movie on question. Then act as a UPnP control point to control media playback. But they made DIAL, which reduced it to a two system network. And to have more resident native apps running (with rest channels open between the devices).

It's interesting seeing what folks do with Google Home and Home Assistant. Orchestrating routines and triggers and what not is kind of neat, in some ways wildly hard to imagine from "back then", but also feels so short in other ways. Is such a primitive level of control. It feels like the task of making actual systems coordinateable and orchestrateable, the real dream of ubicomp, is indeed quite far away, unowned, even though in many cases we have advanced computer protocols afforded to us.

lenerdenator 2 days ago

It's interesting to look back at the times when these concepts and sci-fi lit were written.

A lot of it was in the postwar period. You had a booming population that offered the opportunity for easy corporate revenue growth. If you wanted to make more money, you just sold your good or service to a person who didn't have it yet. That was simple enough because there were people - a lot of them - aging into your market. Let's say that the microwave was the smart home appliance of the late 60s/early 70s. You want to sell them. Well, that's easy, because there are a bunch of people building first homes who want to update their kitchens. Make the case that your microwave belongs in it due to the convenience it brings.

You're a futurist. What would that microwave look like in the future? Well, surely it would just be purchased, you'd put it in your home, and it'd have all sorts of features to make your life even more convenient.

These stories were written with the assumption that, at least in the West, that would continue forever. The Baby Boomers would have enough kids to justify the same sort of marketing strategy. And then those kids would have enough kids. And so on and so forth.

That didn't happen. The birthrate began to plummet in the 1970s and hasn't increased meaningfully since. There are fewer people naturally aging into your market, to say nothing of resources becoming more scarce as time goes on.

So what do you do if you are charged with providing shareholders ever-increasing returns on their investments by selling goods and services? Well, you try to extract more sales - or value - out of a smaller number of people. You don't just sell a smart home device; you require it to be tied to a subscription that must be paid monthly, and make the person using it buy a new one every so often to keep the revenue coming in. You could also collect the data on how they use the device and sell that to people looking to influence the purchase of further goods and services.

The microwave is now a "smart" device that will do all sorts of things... but you'll need to keep paying for it, over and over.

Same with music players, lighting fixtures, televisions, laundry machines, and everything else we've seen get the "smart home" treatment.

Growth must be maintained. Value must be created. The futurist never took into account that part. It was about the consumer, not the supplier, but the consumer can only be made to consume so much based on organic growth.

  • yannyu 2 days ago

    > So what do you do if you are charged with providing shareholders ever-increasing returns on their investments by selling goods and services?

    > Growth must be maintained. Value must be created. The futurist never took into account that part.

    The futurists did take this into account, they just weren't writing utopian fiction. Weyland Yutani, Tyrell Corp, and other Megacorps were the futurists warning us what could happen if we let profit and sharedholder value becomes the most important thing in society.

    • lenerdenator 2 days ago

      I guess the difference is that they weren't attempting to communicate both possibilities in the same example of what the future would be.

MichaelZuo 2 days ago

Any vision of the future that doesn’t include realistic incentives of human beings won’t happen.

Offering such a flexible smart home requires a huge amount of coordination work, customer support, and just taking the blame sometimes for the inevitable bugs.

Yeah competent companies are willing to take on all that, if you pay them a lot, which is why high end smart homes are flourishing.

  • internetter 2 days ago

    > competent companies are willing to take on all that, if you pay them a lot, which is why high end smart homes are flourishing.

    Citations needed, I can provide a lot of examples of high end equipment providing a worse experience.

    • MichaelZuo 2 days ago

      Famously Bill Gates had a practically fully envisioned smart home by the early 2000s. With pretty much every wizmo and integration.

      Even superyachts nowadays are starting to see that from what I’ve heard.

      • Larrikin 2 days ago

        He asked for more concrete examples because the professional companies are behind the consumer level products. Home Assistant is one of the biggest projects on GitHub for a reason. It's still stuck in the hobby space but everything they are doing lately is to push it past Apple Home for the regular user.

        • MichaelZuo 2 days ago

          Are you confused about what early 2000s means?

          The ideal integrated smart home was already achieved before smartphones existed.

          Recent advancements have mostly been about pushing the original 100 million+ usd cost lower.

  • dpark 2 days ago

    What high end smart homes are actually smart in the way paxys described? I would say this market more than just not flourishing, actually doesn’t exist. There’s no company that sells this because it would require a whole bunch of other companies get on board to make it real.

  • paxys 2 days ago

    Imagine you go to get your car's tires replaced but can only buy BMW brand (because that's what your car will support) and they cost 3x the price of the generic ones.

    Imagine you want to do some home renovations but the builder of your house has installed a kill switch that will detonate the entire thing to the ground should you try to move even one brick without using their preferred contractor.

    Imagine the manufacturer of your couch shows up to your doorstep 2 years after you bought it and says they need it back. But you paid full price for it? Nope, you actually bought a license, and the license has now expired. So will you get a refund? Lol, nope.

    All of this would be laughable in the real world, yet when it comes to tech we look at the same practices and go "of course, all this makes sense".

    So no, this isn't really about the "huge amount of work" it would entail. Companies are perfectly capable of doing this work, and happily do so as long as it benefits them. The problem is that there is no regulation in the space and customers have been trained to accept these practices as a way of life.