Comment by __alexs

Comment by __alexs 2 days ago

44 replies

It's funny that game makers make a fuss about anti-cheat not working on Linux but then publish Switch versions of their games. That platform has almost zero security and is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer these days.

hiccuphippo 2 days ago

If people cheat in the switch, they can blame Nintendo. If people cheat in PC, they can blame the anticheat. Without anticheat, they have to take the blame.

j-bos 2 days ago

This. Even kernel level anti-c-spyware can't stop a cheap vision model hokked to a mouse, see youtube for examples from simple auto input up to full on elctromuscular stimulation.

  • embedding-shape 2 days ago

    Based on the latest report from Dice/EA/BF6, seems indeed like they're detecting hardware-based cheating as well: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/2807960/view/4972134...

    Although who knows, they might be outright lying about that just to scare cheaters, but I tend to default to assuming what they're saying is more or less true.

    • orbital-decay 2 days ago

      Looking at the accessibility alternatives they suggest, they were probably detecting XIM users, not the much nastier PC stuff like DMA cards.

    • archerx 2 days ago

      They can’t detect me splitting my hdmi output, feeding one of them to a separate machine with a vision model to detect what needs to be detected and the same machine moving and clicking the mouse. People are already doing this.

      • StrLght 2 days ago

        Could you please share examples of ML-based cheats that actually work?

  • archerx 2 days ago

    Yes the channel “Basically homeless” has a few variations on this. Using electrodes to move your muscles to more practical a bot that moves your mouse pad for you to give you perfect aim. No anti cheat can detect that because there is nothing to detect.

Levitz 2 days ago

It's a numbers issue. How often do people encounter cheaters while playing Switch games online?

bakugo 2 days ago

> is commonly emulated with cheats even in multiplayer

There is no Switch emulator that can play online on official servers.

The only way you can cheat online is by hacking a real console, but the percentage of people who do it is quite small.

  • __alexs 2 days ago

    AIUI you can do it, but you risk the Switch you got the data from being banned.

shmerl 2 days ago

Client side anti cheats is a lazy excuse why they don't want to spend on server side anti cheats anyway.

  • SirMaster 2 days ago

    How do you stop a client-side wallhack with server side anti-cheat?

    • nevon 2 days ago

      Don't send the client information about players they should not be able to see based on their current position.

      • MindSpunk a day ago

        How does it know what isn't visible? Can it handle glass? Frosted glass? Smoke? What if I can't see the player but I can see their shadow? What if I can't see them because they're behind me but I can hear their footsteps? What if I have 50ms ping and the player is invisible after turning a corner because the server hasn't realized I can see them yet?

        To answer all those questions you either have to render the entire game on the server for every player (not possible) or make the checks conservative enough that cheaters still get a significant advantage.

      • xeonmc 2 days ago

        And under such system, how do you stop people from abusing latency-compensation to make their character appear out of thin air on the opponent’s perspective by fake-juking a corner to trick the netcode into not sending the initial trajectory of your peeks?

    • LanceH 2 days ago

      run your own servers, an admin watches them track people behind walls, player gets banned, move on. Oh, they took away player run servers...

    • shmerl 2 days ago

      Improve your server AI to catch weird behavior. Client side approach with this malware idea is simply unacceptable.

tonyhart7 2 days ago

what multiplayer (esports) game that can run on switch ????

fornite???? its not gonna be main playerbase

  • amarant 2 days ago

    From the top of my head: Rocket league, Splatoon.

    I'm sure there are others, but those are the 2 I play

    • bsimpson 2 days ago

      Splatoon is a Nintendo game.

      • amarant 2 days ago

        Sure, but it's still an esport and any discussion of anti cheat ought to apply regardless of publisher methinks

Mindwipe 2 days ago

The Switch has good security as long as you can check the OS version robustly.

Any Switch game using an anti-cheat solution that can't trivially detect that it's being emulated is... not using a very good anti-cheat solution.

Almondsetat 2 days ago

The thing is: the Switch has a clear ToS, and if the user breaks it they can get into trouble. OTOH, if you release your game in Linux... that's it

  • riddley 2 days ago

    The games have ToS though right?

    • Almondsetat 2 days ago

      The Switch is a closed proprietary platform, so Nintendo can give some guarantees, and if the user does something at the Switch level, the responsibility of legal action will be on Nintendo, saving up headaches to the publisher.

      • dotancohen 2 days ago

        Beaches of a Terms of Service agreement have no inherent legal penalties.

        Some actions which breach ToS may be illegal, but that has nothing to do with them being outlined in a ToS.

  • lawn 2 days ago

    Bad excuse, they could rely on Steam ToS for example.

    • surajrmal 2 days ago

      Creating a steam account is cheap. Needing to buy a new switch is not.