Comment by lapcat 3 days ago
I have a hard time believing this story. You seriously dropped out because you didn't like one class? That doesn't seem to show much fortitude.
Which university, which year was this, what was your major, and what happened with your education and/or career after you dropped out?
And what precisely do you mean by "castigated," in your specific case?
> In a follow-up discussion, I committed the "sins" of referring to him as a man, and saying things like he is not a woman, and there are only two sexes.
Sincere question: Why were you not able to just think "Oh, ok, some people do this and feel this way." and then just move on? I'm not sure why these particular things needed to be discussed.
> I don’t understand this thing you do in the US of forcing you to do completely unrelated courses.
The framework for the current curriculum was developed when maybe 2% of the country went to college. The curriculum was meant to be broad, and it was meant to teach people how to think. It was not designed to train the students to do a specific job other than “lead” or “go to grad school and specialize”.
And the high school curriculum is just as bad. It was designed for a time when 4% of a cohort went to high school. Half of those went to a 4-year school and the other half went to 2-year schools. The other 96% didn’t go to high school. That’s why we have some oddities like required 4 years of literature in high school. Nothing wrong with literature, but it’s not really appropriate (at least as currently taught) for a mass audience, imho.
What’s telling is they don’t make the liberal arts student take any hard science electives.
> One of our guest speakers was a man with autogynephilia—a man who derives sexual pleasure from dressing like a woman.
> In a follow-up discussion, I committed the "sins" of referring to him as a man, and saying things like he is not a woman, and there are only two sexes.
Now I definitely agree with the other poster that this sounds made up, or at the very least you are significantly embellishing the story in such a way to completely ruin your own credibility.
> you are significantly embellishing the story
The guy told us he was married, with children, and that he had a separate apartment where he "lived like a woman" most weekends. He lived that way because his wife didn't like it when he dressed like a woman around her. He said he was intensely aroused by wearing pantyhose and skirts, in particular.
That may sound "significantly embellished" to you, but I assure you it is not.
Regardless of what you, or anyone else here, would like to believe about my credibility, this was the beginning of why I personally no longer thought a college degree was worth the cost. I refused to spend another dollar of my hard-earned money sitting through courses where I was not allowed to openly debate the ideas being presented to me.
I'm sorry but this timeline and story makes zero sense. For reference, 2014 is about a year before gay marriage was fully legalized in the US and reasonably before the whole trans rights movement started being a lot more public. I went to college in a deep blue state and had practically little to no interaction with any transgender folks, both in my gen eds classes and just overall at that same time period. Someone arriving as a guest speaker and talking in the way you've mentioned would've instantly made headlines in 2014, especially since at least one student would've complained and made it a bigger issue which as far as I can tell it doesn't exist. Nor are there any mentions of said guest speaker, and colleges are generally very public about this sort of thing.
I understand that you had a different experience, but you seem to be committing the "argument from incredulity" logical fallacy.[0] What I described may not have happened to you, but it did happen—regardless of whether the timeline or details makes any sense to you.
Do you have any thoughts about the cost of college degrees being worth the cost? That's ultimately what prompted me to comment.
https://www-old.cs.utah.edu/docs/Undergraduate/UGHandbook_20...
According to the University of Utah Computer Science Undergraduate Student Handbook 2014-2015, "Students must take two intellectual explorations courses in each: fine arts (FF), humanities (HF), and social sciences (BF). Two of these six courses must be upper division – one should meet the diversity (DV) requirement and one should meet the international (IR) requirement" and "The diversity (DV) requirement can be satisfied by taking a course from an approved list as part of the intellectual explorations courses." So, there was only one required diversity course, from a list of courses, meaning that gender studies was not specifically mandated. If you took gender studies to satisfy the diversity requirement, it was because you chose gender studies, which seems like an odd choice, given your beliefs. In any case, you would not have to take multiple diversity courses.
> I still have 8 classes left. Nothing happened to my career.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. As a result of dropping out, do you not have a career in computing? Alternatively, did dropping out without getting a computer science degree not harm your career at all, and if it didn't, then why were you spending time and money ("I refused to spend another dollar of my hard-earned money") to get a degree?
In a later comment, you say:
> this was the beginning of why I personally no longer thought a college degree was worth the cost.
> sitting through courses where I was not allowed to openly debate the ideas being presented to me.
I'm confused here. For you, is the monetary value of a college degree to openly debate ideas in class? And if so, why did you major in computer science, as opposed to philosophy, for example, which is known for open debate of ideas in class, unlike computer science?
> My instructor and some students went scorched earth on me
Scorched earth is a metaphor. It's not in this case an accurate and informative description of reality. I suspect you just mean that you got criticized, which is exactly what you asked for: an open debate of ideas. The use of hyperbolic phrases like "castigated" and "scorched earth" does not make your comments plausible.
> You seriously dropped out because you didn't like one class?
No. The university added other "studies" courses to my requirements that contributed to my decision. After taking gender studies, I knew I could not tolerate the other "studies" courses the university was suddenly demanding—which were not required when I first started.
> Which university
The University of Utah
> which year was this
2014
> what was your major
Computer Science
> what happened with your education and/or career after you dropped out?
I still have 8 classes left. Nothing happened to my career.
> And what precisely do you mean by "castigated," in your specific case?
One of our guest speakers was a man with autogynephilia—a man who derives sexual pleasure from dressing like a woman.
In a follow-up discussion, I committed the "sins" of referring to him as a man, and saying things like he is not a woman, and there are only two sexes.
My instructor and some students went scorched earth on me over these elementary facts. They made it quite clear that the only acceptable narrative was that, because he "identifies" as a woman, he is a woman.
This is just one example of the kind of "thinking" that went on in this course. I don't like it when I'm told what I must think. As I said before, that's indoctrination, not education.
> I have a hard time believing this story.
Why? It's all true.