Comment by someperson 14 hours ago
Feels weird to say but I have found using Yandex of all places an excellent search engine for content that get taken down by DMCA requests.
Eg if you want to watch a movie that's not on Netflix using a web stream the search results are far better.
Feels like Google circa 2005.
Brave search is also quite nice: https://search.brave.com/
I find Google to generally have some of the worst search results of modern engines with one exception - Google tends to be good at digging up results from things like forums/message boards that don't end up getting listed on other search engines.
I don't entirely understand why this is because other engines also have them indexed and work fine with something like: 'site:news.ycombinator.com anna's archive' [1][2] but yet those posts will basically never show up on the main results, regardless of how far down them you go.
[1] - https://search.brave.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.co...
[2] - https://yandex.com/search/?text=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+...
I switched to Kagi a while back and ended up buying their annual subscription for unlimited searches. It's such a breath of fresh air, like a search engine from an alternate universe where Google just focused on search instead of adtech.
Edit: after the 3rd page
Source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18552824/1436/united-st...
For fun what Gemini says: “The notion that Google explicitly admitted to "deprioritizing good results to sell more ads" is a common interpretation of these documents and expert testimony.”
> Source: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18552824/1436/united-st...
That's a 230-page pdf. Do you have a more specific citation?
Doesn't https://www.google.com/search?q=your+search+query&ei=...&sta... give you page 3? Or at least, try jittering it a bit and compare to frontpage results.
> &start= parameter. This parameter controls which result number the page starts with. Google displays 10 results per page by default. For page 1, start=0 For page 2, start=10 For page 3, start=20
Google only ever returns a maximum of <400 results. If you actually click through at 100/page, you'll only get 3.something pages of results. Despite what is says at the top re: results. Those results are not accessible.
Bing only returns 900. Kagi only 200. Deep search and surfing is pretty much gone on all major search "engines".
> Google only ever returns a maximum of <400 results.
That's perfectly fine. If I'm going to use a search engine, I'm not willing to sift through hundreds of potentially relevant results. I hope I find what I'm searching for in the first page, or at best in the first 3 pages or so.
What's not cool about Google is that now it hits you with AI slop with dubious quality right at the top, followed by a page of sponsored results, followed by some potentially useful results, followed by an entire ocean of spam traps and clone sites and really shady results with exotic never-seen-before TLDs that leaves you wondering whether clicking on a link will get in a hostile database. That's what's not cool about Google: is that you can't use it to search the web anymore.
It's not Google's fault alone.
SEO manipulation for example, that could be tackled by our legal system similar to existing slander, unfair competition and advertising regulations. But unfortunately, most representatives are not digital natives but old digital buffoons, and the post-2000/Gen Z kids never gained an understanding of what actually makes the web tick.
As for the TLD explosion, we definitely need a completely new setup for ICANN. The trouble all of that has caused, just for a measly 250k in fees for each new gTLD, is insane.
The fact that Google seemingly returns results worse than Kagi, Startpage and Ecosia is just strange, given that Google provides search results for all three of them. Both Kagi and Ecosia uses other sources as well, I don't know about Startpage, so that's certainly part of it, but it still feels a little strange.
From using Ecosia, DuckDuckGo and Bing, I'd also argue that Bing is simply a better search engine at this point.
Don’t Ecosia/Qwant have their own index now?
Do you find Bing better through Bing proper, or just as good through DDG (which uses the Bing index)?
Last I read the Ecosia/Qwant index is only used in German and French, so I think Ecosia is still running their weird Bing/Google/Other mix.
Bing felt about as good as Ecosia, until Ecosia started to mix in the Google results. At that point Ecosia became they better search engine. Bing vs. DDG, I'd say about the same. I stopped trying to use Bing once they rolled out all the Copilot nonsense. Now the UI is unusable and cluttered.
You can turn off personalization. (Operating under the assumption that most people search for facts, I personally don't see why one would ever want personalized results.)
Location based personalization is pretty useful - if I search for 'Bob's Discount Linguine' I want the one in my neighborhood.
Lots of niche things (like programming) also reuse common english words to mean specific things - if I search e.g. 'locking' it's nice to get results related to asynchronous programming instead of locksmiths because google knows I regularly search for programming related terminology.
Of course it's questionable whether google does a good job at any of this, but I absolutely see the value.
For the better part of a decade it seems that every verb or noun I search for, all the top search results are some movie or TV show named after that verb or noun. And I've watched exactly two movies in the past two decades (Star Wars VII when it came out, and Alien just last week).
Sometimes I consider actually enabling personalized search just to get to the things that I'm actually looking for.
I often find myself searching for information that's not from my locality. This sort of 'location personalization' frustrate such efforts so much that I rarely 'google' these days. What's the point of having access to the internet if that access is going to be restricted like this without consent? If they want to make my search experience more relevant, they should provide me an option to limit my search, rather than callously assume my intentions.
It's much more egregious on the Android play store. Many apps like banking, transportation and online shopping apps are geolocked for installation, sometimes even without the developers' request or knowledge. What if I'm flying over there in two days, or just want to help someone who's already there? And even when I'm there, I have to prove my presence by supplying the local credit card details! Nothing else is enough - not GPS, not cell tower IDs, not the IP ranges or whatever else.
This is just outrageous because I can't even get a device that I paid for, to work for me. This is just sheer arrogance at this point - a wanton abuse of their co-monopoly privileges. However, I'm not under any delusions that they're here to improve my digital experience. These corporations profit by restricting their "users'" experience on an otherwise fully open internet.
Can you show me what results you see for “locking”? I see dancing move in all profiles I have.
I won't bother defending Google-style personalization as it exists for their search results, but since collisions in terminology across fields are common, it's not that hard to see how actual, thoughtful personalization could be useful. Someone searching for "Kafka" is going to want very different results based on whether they're thinking of software or literature. Opinions may also differ over the usefulness of sources, even for people ultimately interested primarily in facts; I find Kagi-style personalization (make your own domain list) very useful, but across Kagi's userbase Reddit is simultaneously one of the most lowered, most raised, and most pinned domains: https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard
Anecdotally I find myself appending 'reddit' to search terms very frequently. It's effectively shorthand for "I want to read about peoples direct experience with this thing", and reddit is huge and well crawled by search engines. It's astroturfed to hell especially around political topics, but I feel like it's easy to tell when discussions about random products are authentic.
Arguably Google SERPs are getting closer to The Trial.
> I personally don't see why one would ever want personalized results.
The same short combination of words can mean very different things to different people. My favorite example of this is "C string" because when I was a kid learning C I was introduced to a whole new class of lingerie because Google didn't really personalize results back then. Now when I search "C string" Google knows exactly what I mean.
Some people search for shopping, or business details, in which case personalization can improve (or disimprove) result relevance based on knowing where you currently are, what day and time it is, what you tend to order etc. etc.
And some people search for songs/images/videos/books/articles.
I started using yandex when searching for bittorrent infohashes (to find other trackers it might be indexed on) after google, bing, and duckduckgo all stopped returning good results a few years ago.
I know there's multiple full string matches out there, but all I can see on the first few pages are very short partial matches from various blockchain explorers like etherscan. I don't know if this was an intentional decision, or a result of them trying to find fuzzy matches, but they fail at this usecase regardless.
This has been my search engine quality test for quite some time.
A good search engine will show you pirate websites because they have a comprehensive index. A great search engine will put them at the top of the list ahead of the fake results.
A great search engine that endures long enough attracts the type of attention that forces them to delist those results. Once you can no longer find that type of results you know it's time to look somewhere else.
For what it's worth, this is my first pro-Yandex comment after 17 years on Hacker News.
It's a major tech company service based in Russia, so presumably controlled by the government of Russia.
But the results produces for a query like "watch (obscure movie) online stream" are far better than what Google or Bing produces. If you need to check a scene of a specific episode of an obscure TV show, it's the fastest method (but happy to hear alternatives).
Also, the websites it links to aren't operated by the government of Russia.
Where I am, both yandex and Google are services from a foreign land.
I can't say about Yandex because I haven't used it much, but I have used Google and its services enough to know that it may appear neutral but its services do reflect politics of its origin country. For an outsider, I doubt Yandex is going to be any different than Google in those matters.
> Ah yes, using a Russian service, what could go wrong.
Nothing if you know what you're doing.
> Weekly Yandex astroturfers strike again.
People doing things you don't like doesn't mean they don't exist.
I've been playing around with a variety of search engines such as Kagi, Startpage, Ecosia, DDG.
All of them are better than google in finding relevant results. Lol
Google is way too "personalized".