Comment by janalsncm

Comment by janalsncm 4 hours ago

20 replies

So the central controversy in the story is whether the journalist fans should share the solution with the world or keep quiet for the auction.

Sanborn wants the money for medical reasons so he needs to maintain a high sale price.

The two fans want to share the solution with the world.

Presumably the winner of the auction will be buying a severely depreciating asset: the right to know but not disclose the solution. There are at least four people who have the solution and as soon as one of them shares it, its value goes to zero.

Maybe the “solution” to this meta problem is simple: auction it off to the public with a go fund me. As soon as it reaches $500k, publish the solution. That way everyone wins.

The whole thing got more complicated with the addition of lawyers, not less. I don’t see how the two fans violated any contracts with the artist or auction house since they never signed one. But of course lawyers will charge a ton for you to find out.

Avshalom 28 minutes ago

Feels like the central controversy is that Sanborn has to auction anything off for medical reasons.

themafia 2 hours ago

Make the auction include the physical piece of art itself. Then you're buying a tangible and transferable asset. I think the CIA has enough money it can endeavor to replace it. What value does a cracked puzzle even have to them?

irjustin 21 minutes ago

Honestly, everything about this is really sad. I, like may of you guys, have followed this thing for years, for many others, decades.

Actual decryption effort group didn't get to decrypt (a small but faithful community), the creator needed the money for medical procedures that he really believed was coming in. The solution feels like we all go cheated out of something. Lawyers are now involved and the value of the solution is rapidly plummeting.

No one's winning because of a small mistake.

tptacek 4 hours ago

Do I understand part of the complexity of the situation is that Kryptos is in some sense "crackable" (unlike real cryptography), and these two people sleuthed their way to the answer book without solving it? Which is not quite exactly the same thing as them independently working out a solution; it's more like a nicer and more legal version of breaking into the guy's house and stealing it out of his desk drawer?

  • sgustard 2 hours ago

    Can we even determine if what they found is the key, or just the plaintext? The article mentions they recognized bits of plaintext (Berlin clock) in the archives.

  • HPsquared 3 hours ago

    "What we think intelligence agencies do" vs "what intelligence agencies actually do"

  • moron4hire 4 hours ago

    At the state level, it's a method that is in bounds.

    • irjustin 20 minutes ago

      Yes, but all things considered, that's outside the bounds of this cypher - which is why "we all" feel cheated.

    • tptacek 3 hours ago

      I don't have an opinion! As a cryptography pentester, Kryptos has always kind of set my teeth on edge (Wikipedia had editors covering cryptography topics whose expertise was rooted in Kryptos puzzle-crypto). But one of the smartest people I know is also a Kryptos enthusiast so this is all very complicated for me.

nocoiner 4 hours ago

Here, I’ll give you this one for free: it’s called tortious interference. As the name suggests, it’s a tort, so you don’t need to sign a contact to be liable.

  • tptacek 4 hours ago

    There would need to be (1) an existing valid contract, (2) knowledge by the defendants of it, (3) intentional and unjustified inducements by the defendants to break it, followed by (4) an actual breach that (5) caused damages.

    Doesn't seem like that would fit here.

    This seems like more of an ethical dilemma than a legal one.

    • Retric 3 hours ago

      > There would need to be (1) an existing valid contract,

      Your (1) is false. You can damage a business relationship that doesn’t involve a signed contract.

      “Tortious interference with business relationships occurs where the tortfeasor intentionally acts to prevent someone from successfully establishing or maintaining business relationships with others.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference

      • gamblor956 33 minutes ago

        That's not a tort in American law. In this country contractual arrangement is required for tortious interference.

      • tptacek 3 hours ago

        OK, but the interference still needs to be improper!

        • Retric 2 hours ago

          Agreed, though I’m not sure if it would be considered proper or improper here.

      • do_not_redeem 3 hours ago

        They aren't doing it with the intent to damage his business. They're just doing something they would have done anyway.

        You can't claim tortious interference just because someone throws a wrench in your business plans. Sanborn has about as much of a case as Microsoft has against Linus Torvalds for creating Linux and hurting their sales of Windows. (I'll give you this one for free: none.)