Comment by lordnacho

>> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you.

I don't think this is fair. I know several people who died with Alzheimer's and although their final years were very difficult for them nobody has a bad opinion of them. It's certainly a strain on the family but intimating that if you have dementia you better kill yourself or your legacy will be ruined is not ok.

> If he'd been run over by a car, or died of a heart attack at the age of 80, people he knew would remember him as that nice old guy who had a dog and made a lot of art, and was friendly to everyone. Instead he was that 83 year old guy who pissed off everyone, nearly blew up the neighbourhood, and drove like a maniac.

I've really thought about this a lot after seeing a number of family members and friend's family members go through dementia, and it seems like it can go two ways: like this, which is how it went with my grandmother (whose hoarding behavior increased aggressively, and she started slapping people), or how it went with my grandfather on the other side (he became quieter and quieter, watched tv every day while understanding less and less of it, and when you caught his eye would repeat how much he loved you and how much seeing you "made an old man feel good.")

It has something to do with how you feel about the nature of people in general, and whether you feel they are all suspicious and possibly conspiring against you, or that you think they are basically good and want the best for you. When you have all of your mind, you can beat the demons or the angels back with your reasoning enough to have the personality that you want. My grandmother was very loving, and my grandfather was very shrewd and practical. But when that higher function can't regulate you, what shows is if you were someone who taught yourself how to see the good in people, or someone who taught yourself how to see the bad in people.

I suspect I'll end up like my grandfather, as much as I think of myself as like my grandmother. Deep down, I've always been crippled by the feeling that everyone is a wonderful person. My aggression and judgemental nature on a lot of things can really, embarrassingly, be interpreted as me looking for excuses for everyone's behavior.

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I see that the man was Israeli in the original story and I don't want to presume a religious perspective, but I can share some thoughts from my own based on his story and yours. I've read the New Testament within a Jewish framework and one of the things it says, Rabbi Shaul says in 1 Corinthians 12:23 that those people in the community who are most embarrassing or cause us to blush, like the parts of our own body who are honoured or dignified by being clothed with underwear, likewise in the community are owed a special covering and to be afforded dignity by the other parts of the same body/community. Just something to think about in light of this story!

Not all Alzheimers patients get aggressive/angry. I know it happens, I’ve known one person who did almost exactly what you describe above. He lived with his partner of many years, and seemed superficially very cogent and together. It was just that he started to see insults and conspiracies against his person everywhere around him. Not until later did the cognitive and memory decline become apparent, giving him a diagnosis that explained his bad behavior.

But my personal anecdata puts that man in a minority. None of my older relatives with Alzheimer’s have become aggressive or troublesome. Worry, anxiety and confusion seem to be much more common states of mind, which admittedly also doesn’t seem like such a fun way to spend your days.

> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you.

Yes, the sixty-fifth worst thing about degenerative brain disease. Good observation.

I agree alzheimers turns everything to shit in every meaning of the word.

I disagree it’s up to you to conclude it would have been better if he had been killed 3 years earlier (which you imply).

In general you don’t have the right to such a statement.

Now, if you were discussing _your own_ condition this would be a totally valid consideration IMHO. But you (almost) _never_ have the right to conclude from someone elses part when it’s their time to go.

Assisted suicide is a humane option but ”I hope he had died with some dignity years ago instead of pissing everyone off” tarnishes the entire concept and is exactly the type of argument which stops assisted suecide becoming a more widely accepted option.

My issue is, anyone with half a clue should know that a formerly nice respected man doesn’t automatically turn into a mean guy that “pisses them off” because he wants to be. They should have known that he had dementia and it wasn’t his fault.

I’ve never been close to anyone who had dementia. My grandparents on both sides died with their mental facilities in tact and my parents who are 83 and 81 are independent and just as of 6 months ago passed a cognitive test. I can imagine if they started acting out of character and being mean to me or forgot who I was that I would be hurt, overwhelmed etc. But not pissed.

I guess modern people need more empathy to their elderly. In Asian Village I believe they have more empathy if the elderly is having dementia.

*no data though, just observing my village

I think you are bit wrong. Once someone close to you dies you remember them by their legacy. Also, you just have to laugh at some of the chaos these elderly cause. They call you in the middle of the night being lost somewhere and you have to guide em home. Or help the cops guide em home.

I am pro assisted suicide. Not sure about Switzerland but some countries allows it for young people with mental health problems. That I can't accept that.

> it totally sours everyone's view of you.

That's the part that doesn't matter at all. Your life isn't contingent on others having a specific view of you - the rest of the world can, for lack of better words, go fuck themselves.

What matters is if you want to live a life where you can't drive a car, you might poison yourself with your cooking, you lose your mental facilities, etc. That is the relevant choice here.

I think the takeaway should be you really don't want Alzheimer's regardless of what people think of you.

Think about what is happening from his point of view. The condition has fundamentally changed his perception of reality. You are trying to tell him that this perfectly cooked chicken is pink all-over when it clearly isn't. Everyone else has gone mad and he doesn't know why.

I hear quite a lot of these stories from my parents. Are these kind of personality shifting diseases, like Alzheimers becoming more common? And if so, is it because we take better care of our hearts and don’t die as early as?

This is a heartbreaking story to read. But I think that pushing for assisted suicide as a "fix" like you're suggesting misses the bigger picture. We have a responsibility as a society to support people through these diseases, not cut their lives short because it's tough on everyone else.

The real issue is our broken systems for handling dementia and underfunded homes, overworked staff, no real community nets. Fixing that honors the full life someone led, instead of saying their value drops when they need help. Assisted suicide opens doors to abuse, like pressuring people who feel like burdens.

We owe better to people like your teacher.

Sounds like LinkedIn story to me. Written by claude trying to drive a point home.

This sounds like a big and somehow convincing but still rationalization.

If you apply at scale the same logic with more sensibility you will also be able to rationalize a genocide because someone felt bad about something.

What defines demonic inspiration?

And here I don't say "demonic" metaphysically but philosophically.

I would say that this is a societal problem, not an individual one. Society needs to do better in taking care of people who do slip by the wayside, with mental illness and diseases like Alzheimer's.

So you're telling me Alzheimers is a death sentence? Also, what is the minimum nuisance that should lead to someone's death? Because that is the problem with the euthanasia obsession.

At some point everything indirectly leads to euthanasia and society is not built for that at all. Everything you do might or might not lead to someone's euthanasia, which means you are liable for their death.

Let's say we can predict school shooters before they shoot and give them an euthanasia to save lives. If bullying or encouragement causes someone to start shooting up a school, then the latent shooter will die before they do their shooting, but it also means that the instigator is a murderer themselves, because in the absence of instigation, no crime would be committed and no euthanasia would be necessary.

Since it is probably not possible to assign liability of a euthanasia to a single individual, because multiple people contributed to the outcome, the liability will be shared. Ten people being involved means each has committed 10% of a murder, meaning that they should receive 10% of a life sentence. Are you ready to serve a cumulative year in prison spread throughout your life to account for indirectly causing euthanasia?

Note that this problem isn't necessarily unique to euthanasia. The problem applies to any cure all solution. (Think of series like "Common Side Effects")

If you punch someone's face in, but cure it with a blue mushroom, was it really a crime, since their face is intact? And yet, more punching happens as a result of the existence of the panacea, which is why there needs to be a punishment for making someone dependent on the panacea.