Comment by pcl

Comment by pcl 14 hours ago

21 replies

I really don't understand all the hyperbole around this bridge. It's a suspension bridge, so the relevant bits are at the pylons, which just happen to be on either side of a huge canyon. It clocks in at #14 on Wikipedia's list of longest suspension bridges, with a main span that is 603 meters shorter (2023 meters vs 1420) than the longest.

More interestingly, to me at least, is the fact that 31 of the longest 50 are all in China (as are all but two of the 24 in the "under construction or planned").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_suspension_bri...

bko 7 hours ago

The thing that stuck out to me was this:

> The 2,890-metre-long structure, which took more than three years to complete, reduces travel time between the two sides of the canyon from two hours to two minutes.

Pretty impressive. I feel like things in the US take a lot longer and cost a lot more. The prime example is the second avenue subway extension which has been planned since 1920. But I just searched for a few significant bridges like the Gordie Howe bridge which took about 7 years and 6.4bn Canadian (connects US and Canada). And this bridge which seems a lot more of an engineering feat took 3 years and 8 months and cost between $280 to $292 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordie_Howe_International_Brid...

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3553875/the-new-tallest-...

  • LargeWu 2 minutes ago

    This is the central thesis of Ezra Klein's "Abundance" book. Basically, things like this (or high speed rail, or public housing) don't get built in the USA because the government has hamstrung itself with so many rules and regulations that it becomes prohibitively expensive and/or tied up in lawsuits.

    Places like China, for better or worse, are not burdened with the problem of making sure every constituency is accommodated.

  • potato3732842 6 hours ago

    >> The 2,890-metre-long structure, which took more than three years to complete, reduces travel time between the two sides of the canyon from two hours to two minutes.

    The construction timeline and travel improvement are comparable to the New River Gorge bridge, which was completed in the US in ~50yr ago back when systems were structured to and the people who ran them actually were capable of producing results.

  • imglorp 5 hours ago

    Freakonomics just had an episode about how China is run by engineers, who get things done, while the US is run by lawyers, who prevent things from getting done.

  • FooBarBizBazz 6 hours ago

    Chinese civil engineers, and engineering orgs, are good because they get a lot of practice.

    In the West, and especially in the US, individuals and orgs don't get practice, so when they finally do get a new contract they have to stumble around for 5-10 years figuring out all the institutional knowledge that was lost.

    By the time they figure it out, the project is over budget, so it gets canceled, and then it's 20 years until the next half-hearted attempt. Lather rinse repeat.

    At root, a lot of this stems from a "managerial" mindset in which people and skills can simply be "reallocated" on a dime. They can't. You can't uproot trees all the time. You plant one and then it grows over multiple human lifetimes.

    • RajT88 5 hours ago

      To say nothing of the NIMBYism. To acquire the land for use, you have to fight some armies of lawyers retained by a population with a lot of disposable income. (Yes, the US for all her problems has the biggest pool of disposable income in the world)

      • stronglikedan 3 hours ago

        There's no NIMBYism in China, so that's a huge barrier that they don't have to worry about.

    • abeppu 5 hours ago

      I know it would be attacked politically, but I wish in the US we would be more open to hiring foreign firms for these kinds of projects. Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? And we should structure contracts with them in a way that keeps the plans from being changed for political reasons. "Sorry state senator, we can't alter the route to pass through that town without re-opening negotiations which might cost billions."

      • leakycap 4 hours ago

        > Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us?

        No. Please see SNCF (French rail company)'s involvement in California's high speed rail project.

        https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-...

        October 9, 2022

        "How California's Bullet Train Went Off the Rails"

        The (foreign) company's recommendations [...] were cast aside, said Dan McNamara, a career project manager for SNCF

        • mitthrowaway2 2 hours ago

          So I guess we have to not only hire the foreign companies, but also listen to them.

hn_throwaway_99 13 hours ago

> I really don't understand all the hyperbole around this bridge. It's a suspension bridge, so the relevant bits are at the pylons

I understand what you're saying, but the experience is quite different for the people driving over it compared to a bridge where it isn't a 2000 foot drop.

  • sidewndr46 3 hours ago

    I think the point being made is that if you followed two ridgelines that make up a valley up to a common summit you could just jam a plank in there. You've got the world's highest bridge. It's only 4 ft long, but it is technically a bridge.

    I'd be more interested to know how they raised individual components into place. But I presume they just started with small cables, then used those to raise larger ones into place over time.

    • hn_throwaway_99 13 minutes ago

      I understand the point being made, and it's a valid one. My point, though, is along the lines of "engineers/tech-minded folk often miss the bigger picture". Yes, from an engineering perspective, it doesn't matter a whole lot how far the bottom of the valley floor is from the bridge (though I'm sure it matters some during construction).

      But the "user experience" of someone driving over the bridge is vastly different, to the point where I know specifically of some people who wouldn't be willing to drive over it, and it's not "hyperbole" to point out how high this bridge is compared to the ground below.

  • stavros 12 hours ago

    Yeah, I know it doesn't matter how high the actual bridge is, just the length and pylons, but it feels like it matters!

    • GoToRO 8 hours ago

      More height, stronger winds. It matters.

      • pcl 7 hours ago

        Is this true? Does the center of a canyon have higher wind speeds than the edges of that canyon? And what about gusts? I'd assume that boundaries are more turbulent.

codingdave 7 hours ago

What hyperbole?

All I'm seeing is fairly straightforward fact-based announcements. "The tallest bridge has opened - here it is." If that doesn't interest you, fine... but the reports are not hyperbole.

gwbas1c 6 hours ago

Years ago I remember reading about an economist who stated something like, "the best way to stimulate an economy is to pay people to dig holes and then fill them in." (I wish I remember who said that.)

In modern times, that translates to paying people to build roads and bridges. Why pay people to sit on their butts and eat bon-bons when you can pay them to get something of value?

In more tangible terms, building infrastructure does elevate peoples' situations.

CarVac 7 hours ago

I feel like the metric needs to be "greatest distance of road from solid ground" or "greatest distance from linear interpolation between ground attachment points".