Comment by pif

Comment by pif 10 hours ago

14 replies

As an experimental physicist, I refuse to get excited about a new theory until the proponent gets to an observable phenomenon that can fix the question.

the__alchemist 4 hours ago

This is why I'm skeptical of theories like Wolfram's: It feels like an overfit based on this: It produces all sorts of known theories (special relativity, parts of QM, gravity etc), but doesn't make new testable predictions, or new fundamentals. When I see 10 predictions emerge from the theory, and they all happen to be ones we already known of... Overfit.

lewdwig 10 hours ago

The problem with emergent theories like this is that they _derive_ Newtonian gravity and General Relativity so it’s not clear there’s anything to test. If they are able to predict MOND without the need for an additional MOND field then they become falsifiable only insofar as MOND is.

  • dawnofdusk 5 hours ago

    Deriving existing theories of gravity is an important test of the theory, it's not a problem at all. It's only a problem if you can only do this with more free parameters than the existing theory and/or the generalized theory doesn't make any independent predictions. Seems like in the article the former may be true but not the latter.

  • cryptonector 4 hours ago

    If such a theory makes no new predictions but is simple / simpler than the alternative, then it is a better theory.

  • JPLeRouzic 9 hours ago

    Please, how is the article related to MOND's theories?

    • lewdwig 8 hours ago

      In general, they’re not. But if the only thing emergent theories predict is Newtonian dynamics and General Relativity then that’s a big problem for falsifiability. But if they modify Newtonian dynamics in some way, then do we have something to test.

      • westurner 7 hours ago

        From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43738580 :

        > FWIU this Superfluid Quantum Gravity [SQG, or SQR Superfluid Quantum Relativity] rejects dark matter and/or negative mass in favor of supervaucuous supervacuum, but I don't think it attempts to predict other phases and interactions like Dark fluid theory?

        From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43310933 re: second sound:

        > - [ ] Models fluidic attractor systems

        > - [ ] Models superfluids [BEC: Bose-Einstein Condensates]

        > - [ ] Models n-body gravity in fluidic systems

        > - [ ] Models retrocausality

        From https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=38061551 :

        > A unified model must: differ from classical mechanics where observational results don't match classical predictions, describe superfluid 3Helium in a beaker, describe gravity in Bose-Einstein condensate superfluids , describe conductivity in superconductors and dielectrics, not introduce unoobserved "annihilation", explain how helicopters have lift, describe quantum locking, describe paths through fluids and gravity, predict n-body gravity experiments on earth in fluids with Bernoulli's and in space, [...]

        > What else must a unified model of gravity and other forces predict with low error?

    • cryptonector 4 hours ago

      u/lewdwig's point was that if an emergent gravity theory made the sorts of predictions that MOND is meant to, then that would be a prediction that could be tested. The MOND thing is just an example of predictions that an emergent theory might make.

    • andrewflnr 4 hours ago

      They both have to do with very weak gravitational fields.

nitwit005 an hour ago

But, think of all the fun math we get to do before someone shows it's an unworkable idea.

cantor_S_drug 5 hours ago

Sometimes I wonder, imagine if our physics never allowed for Blackholes to exist. How would we know to stress test our theories? Blackholes are like standard candles in cosmology which allows us to make theoretical progress.

  • mycatisblack 4 hours ago

    And each new type of candle becomes a source of fine-tuning or revision, progressing us with new ways to find the next candles - cosmological or microscopic.

    Which kinda points to the fact that we’re not smart enough to make these steps without “hints”. It’s quite possible that our way of working will lead to a theory of everything in the asymptote, when everything is observed.

elyase 4 hours ago

Between two models the one with the shorter Minimum Description Length (MDL) will more likely generalize better