Comment by vonneumannstan 6 days ago
>When I "fast" from those "treats", work takes on new enjoy-ability. Dopamine diet is probably the wrong technical term, but it nails the practical effects well.
Man no offense but this sounds devastatingly sad. "We must starve ourselves of fun so that the barest excitement at work feels good."
I think this is more akin to literally starving yourself so that a single bit of spinach tastes great. It turns out you can in fact eat a candy bar and have pizza and not become obese or otherwise damage your health. It's not one or the other and OP might need some kind of professional help to mediate their moods...
Like this is clearly not healthy.
What about restricting yourself is not healthy?
When I was a kid, I'd eat Trix cereal. I enjoyed it. Now - I find it sort of gross. It's too sweet. You can reach that same point with cake or pizza or a candy bar, etc. - in that, those foods become sort of gross. Foods like spinach become more satisfying. Not only that, but that satisfaction may yield a higher reward than you ever could with Trix cereal. But you'd never reach that higher level of satisfaction as long as you're eating Trix cereal every day.
I wouldn't overthink it, or take it to extremes just to find a strawman. A charitable reading of my comment shows we agree. I talked about indulgences displacing healthier options.
More specifically, when TFA talks about difficulty writing an email vs playing hours of video games, I thought it was worth mentioning that 2 hrs of factorio 3 or 4 nights a week might actually dampen the excitement of work a little by providing a perfectly tailored experience designed to engage the part of your brain that your employer would pay your for.
The analogy isn't about "hunger is the best seasoning" (although isn't that an apt colloquialism !), the analogy is insulin resistance is something like "dopamine resistance" both take consistent large over indulgences or poor decisions (however socially acceptable!) to cause a runaway effect which degrades "health".
Hope that's clearer. It's about establishing healthy habits not starving oneself.
> It turns out you can in fact eat a candy bar and have pizza and not become obese
That is extremely dependent on an individual's metabolism. When I was young I had hyperthyroidism and could not keep enough weight on. I could, and needed to, consume a huge amount of calories without gaining a pound. Now, my thyroid's burnt out, and my sleep is terrible, and it feels like I gain wait from breathing in air.
It's quite difficult for some people to allow themselves a candy bar without sliding down a slippery slope. I'm formerly obese, I lost 100 lbs, and I know when I relax my standards even for a few days, it can spiral.
Self-discipline looks different for everyone. I don't think it's necessarily unhealthy.
That’s insanely stereotypical. There is no ”drugs” that is ”the purest form of pleasure”.
Instead, there are many thousands of different substances which can elicit, heighten, prolong or enable pleasure; some illegal, some legal, some included in your favourite meals and snacks.
Even vanilla is a ”drug” which enhances pleasurable feelings. (Vanillin and ethylvanillin are monoamine oxidase inhibitors and consuming them will increase serotonergic and dopaminergic activity)
> There is no ”drugs” that is ”the purest form of pleasure”.
Having had fentanyl for a couple of surgical procedures, I am inclined to disagree. No one should feel that happy after having their colon inflated like a balloon or chunks of metal screwed into their bones.
You are missing the point. Sure there are individual substances that can provide such experiences. However, talking about drugs as some sort of infinite pleasure inducers is intellectual dishonesty: the category is not homogeneous.
> There is no ”drugs” that is ”the purest form of pleasure”
Yeah, I mean I think we barely know what that would even be. But some drugs come pretty damn close I'd wager, and I'm not talking about vanilla or ethylvanillin.
I think if you've dabbled in opiates, you've come pretty close to what the purest form of pleasure would feel like.
Most ”normal” people react to opiates/opioids with intense nausea and discomfort.
People unable to feel the full spectrum of pleasure sober have quite a different experience, since these substances completely eradicate any pain, grief, anxiety and stress that commonly prevents pleasurable feelings for occurring.
> We must starve ourselves of fun so that the barest excitement at work feels good.
Much like people that struggle with their weight need to turn every meal into accounting for lean protein and leafy vegetables.
Eventually, you crave the broccoli a bit more than you used to, and it makes the diet easier.
I suppose in some sense, but how is this sadder than the reality that we're not all doped up on space cocaine?
A desirable (practical) reality would seem to stem not just from first order effects now, but also in summation of all the credits and debits that it leaves us over time.
> "We must starve ourselves of fun so that the barest excitement at work feels good."
Don't worry, that rule only applies to poor people!
.
More seriously, how long does it take to stop the dopamine high? Could we schedule our lives so that we would e.g. spend one month doing the most exciting things ever... followed by three days of meditation... which would make us ready for a few months of hard work... and then do it again?
You know, so that we are still productive at work, but don't have to sacrifice most of the joy in life to achieve that.
I agree with both of you, but when I am fasting and also doing activities with a high level of dopamine release, I actually find it easier to focus on my tasks as well.
> Man no offense but this sounds devastatingly sad. "We must starve ourselves of fun so that the barest excitement at work feels good."
Interestingly these seemed to be one of the messages of Severance, and Dylan's character even appeared to have ADHD
Do you do drugs?
If not then you're already 'starving' yourself of the purest form of pleasure (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong). I don't think taking one step further is that sad.