Comment by laurieherault
Comment by laurieherault 6 days ago
Author here. It’s my first article. I’m a bit nervous but excited to get your feedback. If you deal with procrastination too, I hope this method helps you like it helped me.
Comment by laurieherault 6 days ago
Author here. It’s my first article. I’m a bit nervous but excited to get your feedback. If you deal with procrastination too, I hope this method helps you like it helped me.
Thank you for your message!
You are absolutely right, and I have actually tried lots of different things and abandoned just as many methods after only a few days. But what pushed me to write this article is that this time, it was different. After several months, this method is still holding up.
> The snark was from my personal experience that serial procrastinators ride a particular high when they change their methods, especially if they spend money for something that hopefully solves their issues. It never lasts long, we return to baseline quite fast. This is why there is tons of posts about "here's how I solved my procrastination issue" when they've only used the supposed panacea for a couple of days.
This reflects my experience as well. Whether it's getting a special little "Getting Things Done" notebook/app or getting the accessories involved in this post, before long my brain has "helpfully" optimized them back out of my life and I'm back at square one.
> serial procrastinators ride a particular high when they change their methods, especially if they spend money... It never lasts long, we return to baseline quite fast
That's probably why the author has beginner tasks on the whiteboard like making a bed, washing the dishes, etc. It's hard to imagine having such tasks throughout one's entire life while struggling with procrastination.
Yes, that is exactly why this method works. Because breaking tasks down into micro-tasks really does work. And the ticket printer helps remove as much friction as possible.
That is what makes it a method that requires very little time and energy, and therefore something that can be sustained over the long term.
If you’re procrastinating, but then find a method that works and go on to use it for several years, you didn’t have a procrastination issue, you just didn’t know how to get started.
Chronic procrastinators will inevitably procrastinate no matter what method they find.
Yes, that's true, but chronic procrastinators also get older which means they know what works best for them, and also accept that some stuff might fall through the cracks, and that's perfectly fine.
Wanting to have a perfectly organised life is unrealistic. We're not machines, but we're bombarded by the message that we can do better at organising our lives, often by those that want to sell us their product.
> What's I find more interesting, is methods that have worked for someone for years.
From 2020 I use a three column worksheet (Libreoffice in Debian): one row per day. One thin column for the date, the second for pending tasks, the third for the "done" ones. Theoretically I just copy-paste between the "pendings" to the "done", but I also add notes as the day progress, so it is also a kind of personal diary. At the end of the day tasks not achieved get moved to some rows below, and new ones are added as needed. The spreadsheet is configured to start automatically on session login, so I can't forget to see my daily assignment. Not perfect, but (mostly) works for me.
Whiteboards have been my main strategy too. And a little while ago I ran across this: https://community.frame.work/t/whiteboard-input-module/58985 and bought the same stickers and pens and it works much better than I expected - the pens write super-durably for dry-erase and light bumping doesn't erase them at all. I have weeks-old reminders on there that are almost new looking.
For day to day stuff I just use a more normal whiteboard that I do my best to erase at the end of the day, and migrate longer term stuff to some other location. I like it better than a regimented "always empty" system since reasonable leakage from one day to the next is pretty common for me.
The good thing about todos on physical objects like a whiteboard is that the space is limited. Todo software tends to accumulate tasks until there are so many you’re overwhelmed with anxiety just opening the app, and pruning them would be yet another tasks on top of the mountain.
I love it. Using a thermal printer to print physical tasks you can crumple on completion and throw in a bin is absolute madlad goblin energy and I'm all for it. I think you've actually perfectly distilled the essence of "game-loop" and operant conditioning, and mapped it to the real world. I have been using a whiteboard for tasks, which is better than nothing, but the problem with that approach is the feedback is minor, and once erased, it's like "wtf did I even do this week". So there is limited short-term feedback and zero long-term feedback. You need both the power-up noise and the level progression for a loop to be satisfying.
I have been planning on making a system based on those long scrolls of paper for doodle boards, so at least there is a history, but of course I procrastinated on building the mount for it.
I would love to use your application, I know there's a million to-do apps out there but I get the overwhelm/daunting very easily, so I really appreciate the scope-hiding aspect.
Thank you for your comment. Seeing the tickets in the jar really helps you feel like you actually got something done.
I cannot wait for you to try my app :)
One comment: You're dopamine hacking. My belief is that eventually the process will stop rewarding you with dopamine, and you'll drop it.
Games eventually stop rewarding you with dopamine, and your brain loses interest in them. Same goes for the jar. ADHD brain needs to keep changing the process, in order to keep the reward novel. What works today won't work in six weeks.
(With me it was tearing the index card in half when I'd finished the task. Very satisfying - for a while)
Definitely a tactily-satisfying motion. Those spikes always freaked me out- you're one slip away from a Final Destination "spike through the eyeball" situation.
I love this, a great improvement or alternative on the original idea.
Thank you so much for writing this. I have recently discovered that I have both autism and ADHD, and increasingly it feels like this mind style has a steep counterintuitive learning curve but also very high skill ceiling.
The video game analogy rings very true for me. It helps me a lot to read articles like yours because it gives me new ideas to try. I fully agree with your premise and I've been experimenting with indeed card based systems but have been frustrated by, as you noted, how having to repeatedly make the cards every day basically means I'll probably stop doing it. The receipt printer is a fantastic idea. Making mental only systems physical seems to invoke the spatial parts of the brain. I've been trying to find good ways to synchronize my mental, digital, and physical information. I'd love to read more of your ideas if you publish anything else on your mailing list. Cheers
Thank you so much for your comment, it means a lot to me!
I would avoid massively increasing your exposure to receipts. They have endocrine disrupting chemicals and it's advised to not even handle them from retail stores let alone in higher quantities in your own home.
Since the article was written, bisphenol has been banned in Europe.
If the grocery store cashiers aren't getting cancer from handling 150 receipts a day then the todo list should be fine.
They are getting cancer. That's the problem, cancer rates overall are higher and we're working through figuring out why so we can stop it. This may be one of the reasons.
I loved your article! Thank you so much for sharing. Fellow procrastinator struggler here.
What's been working for me lately is carrying a Field Notes notebook everywhere with me combined with some of the ideas you talk about here (breaking down tasks into smaller and smaller pieces). It's the perfect size for me to carry around every day.
It's also been helpful as I've been defaulting to opening up my notebook as my basic distraction device as opposed to opening up my phone.
Thank you for your comment. It is so important to be able to resist the temptation of a bad distraction.
Hi, thanks for the nice idea and writeup. Just a newsletter tech tip from my experience - be careful with the subscription form. There are bots looking for email fields on websites and filling them with emails from credential leaks or bad-quality emails and spam traps. You may easily end up with a mixed subscription list which will be unusable / resulting in lots of spam reports, your domain reputation might get hurt. To solve, use a captcha or an invisible "honey-pot" subscription form before the real one, use services for checking emails, etc.
I loved it. I think it perfectly captures the itch that causes procrastination: you had a working solution but it was not good enough for you. You've perfected it but you still have issues with it. You still managed to live with the imperfect version while working on improving it, though. I think that's the part most of us procrastinators fail.
Yes, that’s exactly it! If the system doesn’t work 100% or feels like a hassle, we just abandon it. You’ve summed it up perfectly!
It's a great and well written article. I read all of it, and as a fellow ADHD sufferer, that's rare. :)
My experiences with ADHD align pretty closely with yours. We're of a similar age, but I was only diagnosed recently, and I'm still settling into this, adjusting medication and so on. But just knowing now what's wrong with me, is a game changer. It means I can work with it or around it, instead of being in a state of frustration and despair that I can't function like everyone around me.
In my experience, if I find a task interesting and intellectually stimulating, I can grind away at it for hours and lose track of time. But if it's boring and tedious, it's nearly impossible for me to make any progress at all, unless the consequences for not completing it are severe.
Breaking down tasks is a good idea, and it's something I've thought of myself. Just vacuum the stairs. Just press New Document in LibreOffice and write ONE sentence. Just wipe down the bathroom mirror. I'm not sure I'm ready for a solution as elaborate as yours, though I find the technical aspect of it fascinating, and I might explore it just for that reason.
Thanks for your comment!
I totally relate to the way you described it! You can try my solution in a really simple way using post-it notes. Just do a few tests and see if it works for you!
I just picked up a used thermal printer to try it out myself and I'm looking forward to the release of the code.
I did notice that on mobile the left edge of text on your website is cut off by about half a character.
Also I liked how reading the article was its own game loop with progress bar, level up notifications and items! I hope you use that on future posts!
I will probably release the software as source-closed, but if you need help making a custom script, feel free to email me (you can find the address in the footer of my website).
What phone model do you have? I suspect the screen is on the narrow side.
Yes, I am even going to make a real little game to show that you can get absorbed by a very simple game if it uses the gameplay loop and multiple feedback mechanisms correctly.
Thank you for your comment!
Just so you know.
Offtopic but rewarding your article on Firefox on Android, there's a slight misalignment on the side. The left side gets cut off about 5-8 pixels, I'd say. It cuts off most of the first letter on every line.
It might be just my phone, of course. But I don't have any particular extensions installed or anything else.
I also think, like petemir, that it is a width issue. What model do you have?
Thank you for your comment! It is super helpful.
Ah, sorry for not answering sooner.
Admittedly it's not a hi-end phone. I use a Moto G7. Screen is 1080x2270 at 6.2 inches according to [ https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g7-9357.php#eu ]
Trying it again to verify... You're right that it's the width. I get a small-ish horizontal scroll. But the problem is that no matter if I scroll it completely to that side the left still gets cut off.
Really appreciate the graphics, in-between summary elements and the progress bar widget. A bit too much colorful font variants my taste as it leans towards distracting, but hey everybody is different. That was a swell read, thanks for sharing!
As far as "app which helps create overview, reduce overwhelm and taks small steps" - I wonder how many of those are out there? I have written about 3 of those already for various use cases and in different flavors. Using them over a longer period of time, once the chaos subsides or the novelty wears off seems to be hard for me personally.
The one thing that is often a dead giveaway is how many stimulants seem to have the opposite effect on people with ADHD.
I have ADHD, amfetamines help me relax, caffeine causes me to fall a sleep, some anti-allergy medication can cause me to stay awake for 2 days straight.
I read that in some countries doctors can prescribe mild sleeping pills for babies to help them stay calm during long flights. They always advice to test it before going on the flight, because some babies can actually become hyperactive from that medication. If that happens, there's a good chance the baby has ADHD.
I think it still varies a lot between individuals. Caffeine often makes me more anxious, the effect on mental energy levels seems kind of random (either short burst of energy or just more tired mentally). Yet when I tried methylphenidate it made my mind calmer, clearly reduced anxiety and helped focus while increasing energy. At the same time it gave me pretty bad insomnia, stomach issues etc.
The best I can describe it is that I felt calmer in my mind, but overstimulated in my physical nervous system.
This has been the most difficult part for me. I see people in reddit subs talk about how stimulants changed their lives. They are suddenly alert and productive and happy with the world. I get medication envy. I take adderal and fall asleep. Other stimulants I either get no effect or I get anxiety and zero benefits. It's very frustrating.
It’s diphenhydramine, or Sudafed. Also sometimes sold as Unisom but to be distinguished from the Unisom that is Doxylamine. My 18-mo old had the paradoxical reaction.
You mention three different medications here:
- diphenhydramine aka Benedryl is an antihistamine with a common side effect of sleepiness
- doxylamine aka Unisom is also an antihistamine but these days people only really use it as a sleep aid or for nausea
- psuedoephedrine aka Sudafed is a decongestant. Not sold over-the-counter because it can be used to make meth. It's a stimulant and appetite supressant
Finally, there's "Sudafed PE" aka phenylephrine, which is also sold as a decongestant but it (literally) doesn't work
It's a very interesting solution. I've been thinking more about filling my online time sheet system in advance but I suspect its too impractical to stick to times or keep readjusting with interruptions, so maybe I will try post-its.
I notice a bit of a link in behaviors between people I know who have ADHD and/or OCD. I'm not really sure what someone who "gives-in" to OCD impulses would feel as side effects, etc.. But I'm kind of curious if you see a downside to having followed loops for their reinforcing effects over days of work, etc?
Thanks for your feedback!
Yes, the system needs to have as little friction as possible, otherwise it becomes very difficult to maintain. That’s why the ticket printer is interesting.
I don’t really suffer from OCD so it’s hard to say, but it’s a very interesting question. I hope someone will be able to answer it someday.
Hello! I did a similar thing - however I use TXTs and command line scripts to keep track of things (similar to task warrior). It's a great approach to pick up the list every morning as I have breakfast, put it in my notebook as I leave for the day.
Calendar, weather, to-dos, all in a single thing I can keep in my wallet if needed. I recall somebody posted a project for printing daily news on the roll too (I don't)
I think the authors solution is clever since this is like getting orders in a kitchen.
You dont have to do this yourself. A partner or friend could remind you about stuff and literally send you an order.
I’d personally use one of those spikes instead of scrunching up in a ball.
Thank you for sharing!
I am curious for two things:
- How you stay motivated to create this task list each time. Or for another question - is it a new cool recipe, or have you been sticking to it for more that 3 months?
- What to do so not to go into the rabbit hole of creating and splitting tasks? For me, it is easy to overdo this step, both in breadth (too many things to accomplish) and in detail (too many steps; if you think about it, making and easting a sandwich is a dozen steps or so).
Congratulations on your first article - it's a really good one. I found the jar filling method especially inspiring. Thanks a lot and good luck with the launch!
I'm glad you found a method that works for you, and as a fellow small-time blog author I can say I quite enjoyed reading your post.
Sadly, I've tried the task breakdown stuff before and it hasn't helped. It's not even just the fact that I procrastinate doing it, but that even when I manage to do it, it makes no difference.
Anything that requires more than a one off "session" of intellectual work is doomed. Even if I do manage to do some good work for a period of time, I'll undo it later, I cannot stop myself from throwing everything in the bin. If I force myself not to throw it in the bin, my brain refuses to function.
ADHD medication also does nothing to help me. It makes me feel anxious for a bit, gives me a pile of side effects, and that's about it. I've tried increasing the dose and all it did was make the side effects worse (including extremely smelly sweat, for whatever reason).
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? Helped a little while I was doing it, then I reverted back to normal.
I've even tried the whole accountability thing, but nope. Even if I'm on a call with someone who (like me) commits to do a task, and actually does it, while I committed to do mine, my brain will just tune out and at best I'll be able to do something on autopilot (works for loading up the dishwasher, but not much else).
On the days I manage to burn my willpower to fight it, it drains my energy like Windows 11 does battery on a portable gaming handheld.
Perhaps one day I'll find my own solution and become a multi-millionaire selling a book on it.
Nothing helps me procrastinate like trying out a new trick, a new tool, a new list-making method, etc. I've killed time on dozens of different solutions, and some of them were pretty good at getting me to focus and work hard on implementing that new method, but none translated much into getting more actual work done earlier.
Nothing really helped with that until one day I realized I was getting too old to keep being broke because I wouldn't finish work until I absolutely had to, so I got a job where other people give me stuff to do and expect it within a reasonable time frame. I still procrastinate more than I should, but there's too much to do for me to do nothing, so I'm always getting through something, and maybe that will become a habit.
But I hope tools and methods like this help others. It seems like every new method is a great fit for someone out there.
My first comments may have sounded pessimistic, but I do think you've found a couple interesting ideas that I haven't seen before, in making individual notes for your daily habits and throwing the crumpled notes in a jar. I have a couple pads of sticky notes in front of me right now, to get started on items for tomorrow, so thanks for the inspiration.
I've tried sticky notes before, but tended to use those just for the bigger tasks, while thinking I should put my regular daily habits on a single sheet that I could check off, to keep the sticky notes from becoming an unruly mess. But then the daily list always got neglected. I still got the dishes done, but I wouldn't get it checked off, so the overall system fell apart. Putting every task in the same single-note format may feel like overkill, but may be what it takes to work.
Yes, that is exactly it. It is annoying to do, but it works well, at least for me.
I totally understand! Just for this article, I restarted it 12 times!
What really made a difference for me was starting very very very very very small, with almost no ambition. That is truly the most important point in my article, but I am not sure if I managed to communicate it clearly.
The idea is really to say something like: my goal is to write for 5 minutes, and if that is too hard, I do 2 minutes. And if I manage that, I consider the task done and I can pick another one, also 5 minutes long.
This gives me a real sense of accomplishment and helps me focus on what I have already done instead of everything that is left to do.
Yup, I'm familiar, I've tried it, but my brain is somehow unable to treat the small accomplished tasks as separate from the larger task.
It still costs me the same "percentage of willpower", if you will, as I would have spent tackling it as the first step of the larger task. And once the willpower runs out, it's out.
With video games it's not that different. What keeps me playing aren't the small rewards. If small rewards were enough to keep me going I'd play pacman all the time. The only thing that keeps me going is curiosity.
Yep. Right now I'm trying to start an instructional video series. I know that I need to break it down into tasks and sub-tasks, and I've done that. So I could go pick a sub-task off the list, like "design a thumbnail image," and just work on that. But as soon as I think of doing that, the entire project looms over me, and I freeze up thinking about the whole thing, including even thoughts like "What do I do in 6 months if I'm out of ideas and I have paying subscribers expecting new content?"
I don't know how to zoom in mentally on a tiny, manageable task and block out the rest. I'm usually unable to start on any part of a project until I can comfortably hold the whole project in my mind.
I understand perfectly, when I'm curious or it's new it's so easy!
> ADHD medication also does nothing to help me.
I found that the usual ADHD medication (methylphenidate) does not work for me. However, modafinil does. YMMV.
Your writing is good - I especially liked the intro about the "game loop" and the flow state.
I use one Intermec with android , I just print todo and lists for my pocket filofax - alas not possible to print under linux (proprietary drivers), and I even had to 'hack' the android intemec print-app (as it was designed for intermec android devices and if you don't use a such it put a watermark line) - TBH even their setup app is windoze only.. FFS
I was about to be a little snarky but your comment reminded me to be kind. Thanks.
I don't have a receipt printer, what helps me is an A4-sized whiteboard with marker when I feel like I'm falling behind my tasks. Also, to use todos sparingly, so they retain their effectiveness. It's actually quite underrated to forget and let go of tasks; what's important tends to stick around in your head and keep you up at night.
The snark was from my personal experience that serial procrastinators ride a particular high when they change their methods, especially if they spend money for something that hopefully solves their issues. It never lasts long, we return to baseline quite fast. This is why there is tons of posts about "here's how I solved my procrastination issue" when they've only used the supposed panacea for a couple of days. What's I find more interesting, is methods that have worked for someone for years. Then one can claim to have found a cure, albeit one that probably only works for them.
In any case, keep writing. It helps a lot if you too suffer from squirrel brain.