Comment by OutOfHere a day ago
And they will go where? To the Netherlands or Sweden? EU regulation applies there. They would have to go to Seychelles or Panama, but their servers would obviously still have to be elsewhere.
Switzerland would be useless if it can't remain a safe haven.
I wouldnt trust their state, the one that argued for infecting their entire population with covid to achieve herd immunity, the one that bent the knee to the US when they wanted a sex scandal to arrest Assange, the one who wont release information they have about blown up gas pipelines in their back yard. I shouldnt pick on Sweden, all countries are like this now.
Hot take but it makes sense to get rid of privacy under certain circumstances. What if we created a political system where you can trust the government to do a good, honest job. Privacy is needed because goals of the government aren't always aligned with goals of the society, but what if that wasn't the case.
Once you lose privacy, you can never get it back.
The population may trust the government now, but totalitarian regimes are returning to fashion and love when they can skip the data collecting bureaucracy and go straight into building or offshoring their gulags.
I guess the human temptation to want to know what people are saying behind your back goes beyond political/economic systems.
"Crony capitalist", it's not actual capitalism when the government has its fingers and regulatioms in everyone's finances.
Social democracy is also capitalism.
I’d rather word that differently. High-trust societies with little expectation of privacy and valuing community tend to do well with social democracy. Otherwise people end up abusing the system and it’s hard to catch them if privacy trumps community needs.
Here in ex-USSR country people are very pro privacy and individualist. At the same time we try to copy a lot of Nordic stuff from our neighbors. It’s a shitshow how those cultures mesh. A lot of welfare abuse, hiding beyond muh privacy to avoid scrutinity.
> "This revision attempts to implement something that has been deemed illegal in the EU and the United States. The only country in Europe with a roughly equivalent law is Russia," said Yen.
They can go anywhere in Europe, since that type of surveillance seems to be illegal
The issue is that countries may not care. The Danish government famously refuses to comply with EU verdicts that makes logging all phone calls and spying on text messages illegal. The Danish supreme court and the European Court of Human Rights have agreed with the government that "it's fine" in a "please think of the children"-moment.
There was a whole special interest group set up to handle the law suites: https://ulovliglogning.dk/ all the law suites are on their page, but in Danish. One of the previous ministers of justice flat said he didn't care, as long as it help catch "the bad guys". This a guy who was the leader of the Conservatives. A party that brands itself as the party of law and justice, except when they don't like the verdicts apparently.
You can also read about the reaction to the verdict in 2017 (again in Danish): https://www.version2.dk/artikel/bombe-under-ti-aars-dansk-te... where the EU deems the Danish logging unlawful, and the police and the government reacts by ignoring the verdict and wanting even more logging. There is a bunch of followup and related links at the bottom. The site is a tech news site owned by the Danish Engineers Union.
There's a Wikipedia page on what is being logged and retained: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_retention#Denmark
It's somewhere between an over-interpretation of EU rules and a misunderstand of the usefulness of the collected data, but the end result is that every single person in Denmark is basically logged and tracked 24/7, unless they go completely offline.
If privacy service providers have to keep logs anywhere, they lose all technical credibility—doesn't matter if you're registered in Panama, the Netherlands, or Mars. Perhaps, we should design systems where compliance is impossible and data simply doesn’t exist by default.
What happened to the ideas of offshore data centers and seasteading and pirate radio? Is it time to bring those back (again)?
only musk can save datacenters from reaches of earths governments.
by transporting every cargo to USA for thorough inspection before flight.
Isn't the cost of taking down a satellite lower than putting it up?
The problem would be all the debris up there. Maybe destroying one satellite would destroy them all.
> Isn't the cost of taking down a satellite lower than putting it up?
Probably not for Starlink. You’ve got mass-manufactured satellites in a constellation launched on a reüsable, profitable platform on one hand. And on the other hand you have experimental expendable ASAT weapons.
Is not changing BGP route cheaper than taking down a satanlite ? Sorry, satellite.
Norway has also been a popular destination for these types of services.
As a Norwegian I would not feel safe hosting such here.
Of the ~10 parties with a chance of a seat at the parlament, absolutely none have any clue what so ever when it comes to IT security matters.
The major parties have multiple times attemted to push egregious laws like collecting all internet metadata in our country, and storing it for years. They argued it wouldn't be a risk because only authorized personel would have access...
Sheer luck has twarted those attempts.
There are 5 million people living in Norway and you have 10 parties in the parliament? Talk about divided country.
Denmark is a little under 6 million people, there are currently 12 parties eligible for election. That not really uncommon, the Netherlands also have a fairly large number of parties.
It seems more crazy to believe that two, three or four parties can represent 80 million or more people. The truth is that many of the parties in countries like Norway and Denmark are all fairly similar. They mostly agree on the basics. Six of the twelve parties in Denmark are, in my mind, variations on Social Democrats. I'm sure many would disagree, but they vary on issues, that in countries like the US, would be considered implementation details or narrow topics.
This is quite normal in Europe.
E.g. there are currently 14 political parties with at least one seat in the UK Parliament - but most of them only have a very small number of seats.
Norwegians seem to me, an outsider, quite cohesive as a society. Much more so than just about any place i’ve spent time in. But they also seem to allow for a fair bit of diversity in certain things, politics being one — but only within certain parameters, so I suspect the differences between the parties are more around specific issues up for debate than big ideological / identity concerns, as they are in the US, for example.
That's much less divided than, say, the US, with its two party system.
Any party is much less likely to have a dominance, and they'd have to play along with the others to form a coalition.
I'd argue that this is much more what a democracy should be like and much more representative of the wide range of people and voices that our countries (Norway, Netherlands, etc) have compared to the "divide-in-the-middle" politics that are common to the US.
500,000 people aligned to a party platform isn't wild.
Claiming that 100,000,000+ are aligned to a party platform is much more crazy.
If someone knows a Norwegian datacentre offering colocation, that has no connection to USA, please let me know.
I have no experience with them, so not a recommendation, but perhaps https://greenmountain.no?
I somehow missed them. Thanks for the information. I’m afraid that the lack of public prices and an invitation to contact their salesman means it’s as expensive as it could be, but I’m sure Proton can afford.
Mullvad operates out of Sweden. Unlike proton, mullvad doesnt have to respond to court orders. proton gives up user info thousands a year its right on their transparency page.
Mullvad stores account (kyc) + payment information in line with Swedish tax laws for (I think) 7 years.
What Mullvad apparently don't have are data-plane logs. But then, surveillance laws mandate forceful & secret compliance in certain cases (Mullvad may be exempt but who knows: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43018290)
Doesn't Mullvad accept cash without identifying information?
Proton isn’t giving up VPN users. It’s giving up mail users. There’s a huge legal difference.
Australia's "full court system" completely failed to stop "Telecommunications and Other Legislation Amendment (Assistance and Access) Act 2018", where by people can be compelled to install security backdoors at the behest of law enforcement.
It looks like Prince Hans-Adams is much more able to protect peoples civil liberties than Australias westminster system.
And their military defense is outsourced to Switzerland.
Sweden, having their legacy in social democracy and more state control, hates privacy
https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/a-dangero...
It was also Swedish EU commissioner who wants to ban end-to-end encrypted chats and brought various proposals to the EU for this.