Comment by neom 2 days ago
There has been a bunch of chatter in Canadian founders whatsapp groups about people getting detained for long periods of time coming into the states either at SFO or pre-clear in Canada. Are you advising Canadians travel with any additional documentation these days?
Obviously anecdotal but I've had zero issues with preclearance at Pearson as a TN holder, both crossing and when applying for TN. They usually just ask me some combination of where I work for, what I do, and if I know when my TN expires, and that's it. My experience applying there has also been incredibly uneventful. I guess engineering is a bit easier to do though, especially if you have a strong application that's been done by lawyers.
I've been given hell by immigration about my TN when flying directly into US airports though.
Conversely, preclearance at Pearson royally screwed up my TN visa after claiming that the other ports of entries were doing it wrong. I have received multiple TN from HOU and, in general, I like the CBP at HOU. EWR was always friendly as well in my opinion. I personally prefer getting my TN at land border crossings because they tend to take the "gather all the facts" approach vs. airports have a procedural approach that feels highly dependent on the agent you get. My most recent TN was I-129 which I think is a waste of money but if someone else is paying for it and you have the luxury of waiting in the US, then it's a seamless experience.
The concerns on the part of CBP when someone is seeking admission as a B-1 business visitor are the appropriateness of the applicant's proposed activities and the applicant's ties to home/intent to return home (Canada). So you want to keep in your back pocket documents that address these concerns, such as a foreign lease agreement, foreign pay statement, and evidence of the purpose, such as a printout of the conference being attended or a letter of invitation. It's also really important to be prepared to provide specifics about your purpose, who, what, when, and where.
Im a Canadian and go to the US for work fairly regularly. Something I didn’t realize is that the laws are different in preclearance areas. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-19.32/FullText.ht...
For example, you are allowed to withdraw your application to enter the US and leave the preclearance area. Additionally you are bound by different laws for search and siezure.
At this point I am only going to the US through preclearance areas because you are still on Canadian soil and bound by Canadian laws. That doesn’t necessarily mean that USBP won’t break those laws, but the Canadian courts get to decide if laws were broken instead of the US courts.
One thing I have not found a straight answer on yet is if USBP can compel you to unlock your electronic devices in a preclearance area. My current strategy is if I am asked to do that in preclearance I will withdraw my application to enter because Im not letting anyone access to my phone.
Canadian citizens are exempt but this is the program that allows non-visa travel to nationals of certain countries https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/
I don’t know what the policy is, but you can be denied entry for any reason
That makes sense. The laws about removal creating an entry ban were written before preclearance was a thing. Withdrawal is a think at normal ports to, but since you’re already they, they can force “expedited removal” instead if they want to generate a ban. But preclearance isn’t US territory so removal isn’t applicable.
That’s only the Canada -> US leg, though. They can still grab your phone on the US -> Canada return trip, ne pas?
Historically the US has not had much "exit control".
For example leaving the Schengen area it's obligatory to go through "exit immigration" and get your passport stamped. Leaving the US, you show your passport to the airline, but usually there is no formal immigration check at all.
That’s because the airline updates your I-94 for you. If they don’t you risk overstaying. There is a website you can use to validate that they did everything correctly.
Every time I've crossed from US to Canada there's been zero interaction on the US side. Just drive up to the Canadian gate house and show papers.
Especially by land. I've walked into Mexico at an official crossing with zero passport / papers check by either side. In general land and sea travel can have differing rules though, where international air travel is governed by a set of international agreements with standard rules. For instance the full passport book is required for all international air travel.
You will get your docs checked about 10 miles inland Mexico. There you will go through customs and immigration. The border zone is treated differently in Mexico. Mexican customs is very strict: two laptops and you’re taxed 25% on the second one. Technically you can’t bring an iPad and a laptop without paying taxes.
IIRC, [a long time ago?] you MUST give a piece of paper to a guy/gal near the exit, so they remember to mark your exit in the database. I don't think they check too much, just collect the pieces of papers? (I don't remember the details, but if there was a scary warning if you forget to give it and they forget to update the database.)
This is part of the Canadian border control in my experience; i.e.
- Arrive in Pearson
- go to passport control, scan passport at kiosk, kiosk spits out receipt
- you flash receipt to a border officer at the stairs out of passport control
- go to baggage claim
- get bags
- go to customs
- hand passport with receipt to officer at customs
- welcome to Canada
I haven't had that experience when leaving other countries bound for the US; like GP said, I've had to show my passport to the airline to board, but I believe that's to fulfill the requirement that they made good-faith effort to ensure I'm capable of entering the US.
Sure. Or USBP could just be waiting for you as your flight lands in the US and then immediately detain you. You have no rights in a US airport.
I have not ever heard of that happening, but if I did hear about it happening to normal people (i.e. people without a criminal warrant) I would probably stop going to the US.
nit: USBP (US Border Patrol) is not at the ports of entry. Border Patrol is for the land border _between_ ports of entry. CBP (customs and border protection) is the organization that does immigration control at the ports of entry.
I am not replying to the i94 side of this, just the "talking to" side.
There are massive data sharing agreements between US and Canada customs. US and Canadian sides can pull full criminal records, and a pardon means nothing. Exit data is shared in both directions as well.
I've crossed a few times between the two via plane since Feb and when exiting the US, they could not care less from my experience.
EDIT: I do remember hearing some cases of being searched when leaving through land borders, but that's more of cars being searched for smuggling IIRC?
This is why I only fly back from Europe via Dublin international.
If you are a Canadian citizen you don’t need a visa — due to the visa waiver program — for business purposes as long as your stay is less than 90 days.
You cannot be employed in the US under these conditions, but as a founder you are most likely doing things which are permitted:
* negotiating contracts * business meetings * board meetings * conferences * purchasing property in the US
There's no question that it's tougher now to get into the U.S., whether from Canada or another country via pre-clearance or via a land crossing, and there can be significant differences among airports and land crossings. Canadians are unique because they are visa exempt and CBP feels particularly emboldened to reassess their admissibility every time they enter. The keys are to avoid bad pre-clearance offices and land crossings and even more importantly to carry the right paperwork, which varies depending on the specific status being sought. There is also a huge difference between seeking entry as a visitor versus seeking entry as a worker with a visa, with the former much more challenging now.