Comment by __turbobrew__

Comment by __turbobrew__ 2 days ago

26 replies

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Im a Canadian and go to the US for work fairly regularly. Something I didn’t realize is that the laws are different in preclearance areas. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-19.32/FullText.ht...

For example, you are allowed to withdraw your application to enter the US and leave the preclearance area. Additionally you are bound by different laws for search and siezure.

At this point I am only going to the US through preclearance areas because you are still on Canadian soil and bound by Canadian laws. That doesn’t necessarily mean that USBP won’t break those laws, but the Canadian courts get to decide if laws were broken instead of the US courts.

One thing I have not found a straight answer on yet is if USBP can compel you to unlock your electronic devices in a preclearance area. My current strategy is if I am asked to do that in preclearance I will withdraw my application to enter because Im not letting anyone access to my phone.

jonny_eh 2 days ago

Can you be block-listed if you withdraw your application to enter?

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  • phire 2 days ago

    The ESTA form explicitly includes "withdrawn your application for admission", as part of the refused admission question.

    So it's basically the same, and you will have to apply for a proper visa.

    Reply View 2 replies
  • __turbobrew__ 2 days ago

    I don’t know what the policy is, but you can be denied entry for any reason

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morpheuskafka 2 days ago

That makes sense. The laws about removal creating an entry ban were written before preclearance was a thing. Withdrawal is a think at normal ports to, but since you’re already they, they can force “expedited removal” instead if they want to generate a ban. But preclearance isn’t US territory so removal isn’t applicable.

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KerrAvon 2 days ago

That’s only the Canada -> US leg, though. They can still grab your phone on the US -> Canada return trip, ne pas?

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  • klipt 2 days ago

    Historically the US has not had much "exit control".

    For example leaving the Schengen area it's obligatory to go through "exit immigration" and get your passport stamped. Leaving the US, you show your passport to the airline, but usually there is no formal immigration check at all.

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    • the_mitsuhiko 2 days ago

      That’s because the airline updates your I-94 for you. If they don’t you risk overstaying. There is a website you can use to validate that they did everything correctly.

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      • raverbashing 2 days ago

        Yeah, once upon a time you had to return your actual I-94 stamped to your passport to the airline, but today this is done automatically on the background

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    • potato3732842 2 days ago

      Every time I've crossed from US to Canada there's been zero interaction on the US side. Just drive up to the Canadian gate house and show papers.

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    • seniorThrowaway 2 days ago

      Especially by land. I've walked into Mexico at an official crossing with zero passport / papers check by either side. In general land and sea travel can have differing rules though, where international air travel is governed by a set of international agreements with standard rules. For instance the full passport book is required for all international air travel.

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      • briandear 2 days ago

        You will get your docs checked about 10 miles inland Mexico. There you will go through customs and immigration. The border zone is treated differently in Mexico. Mexican customs is very strict: two laptops and you’re taxed 25% on the second one. Technically you can’t bring an iPad and a laptop without paying taxes.

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    • gus_massa 2 days ago

      IIRC, [a long time ago?] you MUST give a piece of paper to a guy/gal near the exit, so they remember to mark your exit in the database. I don't think they check too much, just collect the pieces of papers? (I don't remember the details, but if there was a scary warning if you forget to give it and they forget to update the database.)

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      • tenacious_tuna 2 days ago

        This is part of the Canadian border control in my experience; i.e.

        - Arrive in Pearson

        - go to passport control, scan passport at kiosk, kiosk spits out receipt

        - you flash receipt to a border officer at the stairs out of passport control

        - go to baggage claim

        - get bags

        - go to customs

        - hand passport with receipt to officer at customs

        - welcome to Canada

        I haven't had that experience when leaving other countries bound for the US; like GP said, I've had to show my passport to the airline to board, but I believe that's to fulfill the requirement that they made good-faith effort to ensure I'm capable of entering the US.

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  • __turbobrew__ 2 days ago

    Sure. Or USBP could just be waiting for you as your flight lands in the US and then immediately detain you. You have no rights in a US airport.

    I have not ever heard of that happening, but if I did hear about it happening to normal people (i.e. people without a criminal warrant) I would probably stop going to the US.

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    • returningfory2 2 days ago

      nit: USBP (US Border Patrol) is not at the ports of entry. Border Patrol is for the land border _between_ ports of entry. CBP (customs and border protection) is the organization that does immigration control at the ports of entry.

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  • chollida1 2 days ago

    Where?

    Driving across the border from the US back to Canada you don't talk to US border agents.

    Flying from the US back to Canada you don't talk to US border agents.

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    • bbarnett 2 days ago

      I am not replying to the i94 side of this, just the "talking to" side.

      There are massive data sharing agreements between US and Canada customs. US and Canadian sides can pull full criminal records, and a pardon means nothing. Exit data is shared in both directions as well.

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  • pyreko 2 days ago

    I've crossed a few times between the two via plane since Feb and when exiting the US, they could not care less from my experience.

    EDIT: I do remember hearing some cases of being searched when leaving through land borders, but that's more of cars being searched for smuggling IIRC?

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