Comment by keiferski

Comment by keiferski a day ago

5 replies

Meta comment: the situation with employee-employer loyalty seems pretty similar to the loyalty situation in other aspects of modern life like dating/marriage partner-partner, politician-constituent, or friend-friend: you're not incentivized to be loyal and in a lot of situations, you're actually incentivized to not be loyal and to continually look for better opportunities.

To me, that feels like a failure of the deeper social system. I want to be loyal to the people I work for/with, not treat our relationship like a transaction that is socially acceptable to end at any minute. And in a bigger sense, I don't think it results in organizations that do truly good work over longer timescales.

Maybe the solution isn't Japanese-style one megacorporation for life employment...but a few steps toward incentivizing loyalty probably wouldn't hurt.

stuxnet79 16 hours ago

> To me, that feels like a failure of the deeper social system. I want to be loyal to the people I work for/with, not treat our relationship like a transaction that is socially acceptable to end at any minute.

Great comment. The confounding variable here is culture.

American cultural norms devalue stable relationships in favor of personal fulfillment and self-actualization.

It isn't like this everywhere. There's a reason why business culture is different in Asia. The underlying attitudes there regarding social norms and how people can relate to each other i.e. what's acceptable and not acceptable, are very different. As a result, commerce there is conducted differently as well. Richard Nisbett wrote a book that goes into detail on this topic [1]

I will not make a judgement on which approach is better, or tie it into economic metrics but the bottom line is that attitudes towards work such as this one are highly influenced by the underlying behavioral norms. Without acknowledging this I don't think you can have a productive conversation on the topic.

[1] The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why - Richard Nisbett

  • keiferski an hour ago

    Thanks for the book suggestion.

    I would push back on the notion that this is purely a geographical phenomenon though, because in the very recent past, it was totally normal for Americans to work for the same company for decades. You could say that recent developments are just an inevitable consequence of underlying social attitudes, but I’m not so sure it’s that simple.

OutOfHere a day ago

That's complete nonsense. An employer is nothing like a partner. And as for those who are not loyal to friends, they will quickly find themselves without any.

As long as the employer is not solving world hunger or finding a cure for disease, the relationship is strictly transactional, and will remain as such.

  • keiferski a day ago

    I didn't say that they are similar types of things, but that similar incentive structures are at play across them. That seems pretty obvious to me if we look at 1) the way employees make more money by changing jobs often and 2) how people using dating apps are always complaining about FOMO, infinite choice, and so on. In both situations the "user" is incentivized to not be loyal.

    • OutOfHere a day ago

      They're not the same. Commitment is a thing in personal relationships. In a professional relationship, it is still a thing, but it is contingent on the employer demonstrating it. The first side to break the commitment is the one who is in the wrong.

      Infinite choice is something to exercise before making a commitment, not after it.