Comment by arjonagelhout

Comment by arjonagelhout 17 hours ago

18 replies

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Speaking as a person who can’t see themselves stop working, I think an important factor is how one derives meaning from their life. For some it might be living amazing experiences, and for others it can be in helping others (which could qualify as work). The healthiest seems to be a combination of the two, with a different ratio depending on the person.

Here in the Netherlands it’s common to see retired people do volunteering work, as it can bring great pleasure and satisfaction to help people. There’s of course also the communal aspect of it.

It’s also common to see business owners for example in family businesses to keep working at the company after the official retirement age.

So I’d argue work does not have to be a chore and can be a source of meaning and purpose. But if it is just a means to an end, it makes sense to not want to work your entire life and good labor and retirement laws should protect people from having to work their entire life.

CharlieDigital 17 hours ago

"Work" here I would define as exchanging time for money.

Volunteering is not work.

For me personally, I make a distinction between "working" and "creating". I will always want to create (a very broad term), but I will not always want to work. In fact, I don't want to work now; I only want to create. The best is when I can exchange my creation for money -- then it is no longer work.

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  • oofManBang 17 hours ago

    You might enjoy a fella named marx. Labor is labor, my friend. It should be mostly devoted to things that enrich the lives of us and those around us. It is normal to want to work. It is the alienating nature of selling our labor for a pittance that ruins our lives.

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    • robertlagrant 16 hours ago

      Then sell your labour for more than a pittance, if you're just haggling over the price.

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      • oofManBang 15 hours ago

        Ahh, silly me, I should have just starved on the streets until someone recognized my value.

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        • robertlagrant 14 hours ago

          Unless you're in a country that embraced the teachings of Marx, you're more likely to die from too much food than not enough, or a class-based murder spree.

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  • closewith 17 hours ago

    No, work is effort expended to achieve a result. Whether it's paid or not is irrelevant, and many people work harder for free than they ever do in employment, because the incentives are right.

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    • justin66 16 hours ago

      > Whether it's paid or not is irrelevant

      When someone contemplates the wisdom of an entrepreneur who says he’s going to work until he dies, they’re not worried he might volunteer too much.

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      • closewith 15 hours ago

        That's short-sighted. Most entrepreneurs, once they're financially stable, work for reasons other than money.

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    • robertlagrant 16 hours ago

      > No, work is effort expended to achieve a result

      By this definition, going to the toilet is "work". If that's the case, I never want to get to a point where I stop working.

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      • esafak 12 hours ago

        In the context of this discussion, the result has to be of value to someone else, that's all. Then you can haggle over how valuable it is. When it is for yourself, the currency is time and energy; you ponder how much to invest on one task versus another.

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      • closewith 13 hours ago

        Well, it is, and the workload of ablution becomes greater as you age.

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      • alabastervlog 14 hours ago

        I like to use a fuzzy definition (though, all definitions are fuzzy—what's a chair? Good luck...) based on whether it's common for someone with the means to do so, to pay others to do it for them, by choice and not due to disability or something like that.

        Taking a shit? Not work. Cleaning the toilet? Work.

        Eating dinner? Not work. Cooking dinner? Work.

        Playing badminton on your lawn? Not work. Mowing the lawn? Work.

        Napping on your Ikea couch? Not work. Assembling that couch? Work.

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    • peepee1982 14 hours ago

      This is a useless definition, especially in this context. Washing my dishes is not work, because it's ultimately irrelevant whether I do it or not, although I'm doing it still because I have a result in mind.

      It also comes across as very out of touch and privileged, because unless you have a relatively cushy job, you would definitely not see the difference between being paid or not as irrelevant. There are plenty of people who have to work very hard just to make ends meet, be it physically exhausting work, or repetitive and monotonous work. And they will not have the capacity to work even harder once they clock out of work, no matter the incentives, because they'll be spent and unable to.

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      • closewith 13 hours ago

        > This is a useless definition, especially in this context.

        No, it's a very apt and useful definition. It's just not one you appreciate.

        > It also comes across as very out of touch and privileged, because unless you have a relatively cushy job, you would definitely not see the difference between being paid or not as irrelevant.

        This comment is a straw man, because I didn't say pay was irrelevant. I said work is work whether you're paid or not.

        It also ironically shows that you are out of touch and privileged, as your comment completely ignores two of the heaviest workloads in the world, housework and child-rearing. Neither are generally paid and both are most definitely work.

        Only a completely out-of-touch and privileged person could think otherwise.

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  • glimshe 16 hours ago

    "I work at a nonprofit"

    "I worked on my yard today"

    Your definition is arbitrary and goes against the established use of the word. Work can be many things. When people say they don't want to stop working, they are just saying they want to keep changing the world in big or small ways until they die.

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mid-kid 16 hours ago

I wish I could do unpaid volunteer work and still afford live. By which I mean, I really hate that certain kinds of work are not deemed worthy enough of financial compensation, yet are still beneficial to people and society at large.

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