Comment by smj-edison

Comment by smj-edison 2 days ago

Slave wages? Like the wages for a factory worker in 1918[1]? $1300 after adjusting for inflation. And that was gruelling work from dawn to dusk, being locked into a building, and nickel and dimed by factory managers. (See the triangle shirtwaist factory). The average Uber wage is $20/hour[2]. Say they use 2 gallons of gas (60 mph at 30 mpg) at $5/gallon. That comes out to $10/hour, which is not great, but they're not being locked into factories and working from dawn to dusk and being fired when sick. Can you not see that this is progress? It's not great, we have a lot of progress to make, but it sure beats starving to death in a potato famine.

[1] https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015022383221&se...

[2] https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Uber/salaries/Driver (select United States as location)

Nevermark a day ago

> Slave wages? Like the wages for a factory worker in 1918[1]? $1300 after adjusting for inflation.

I think they were using “slave wages” as a non-literal relative term to the era.

As you did.

A hundred years before your example, the “slave wages” were actually slave wages.

I think it’s fair to say a lot of gig workers, especially those with families, are having a very difficult time economically.

I expect gig jobs lower unemployment substantially, due to being convenient and easy to get, and potentially flexible with hours, but they lower average employment compensation.

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smj-edison a day ago

> I think it’s fair to say a lot of gig workers, especially those with families, are having a very difficult time economically.
Great point. I wonder if this has to do with the current housing crisis and cost of utilities... Food has never been more affordable, in fact free with food banks and soup kitchens. But (IMHO) onerous zoning has really slowed down development and driven up prices.
Another cost is it's pretty much impossible to do anything without a smartphone and internet. I suppose libraries have free internet, but being able to get to said library is another issue.
And like you said, contract work trades flexibility for benefits, and that gets exploited by these companies.
I guess it just sucks sometimes because these issues are super hairy (shut down Uber, great, now you've just put everyone out of a job). "For every complex problem there is a solution which is clear, simple, and wrong."

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- ToucanLoucan 10 hours ago
  
  I suspect it has to do with a lot of things:
  * Everything is more expensive. You say "food has never been more affordable" but I'll absolutely challenge that. Food banks and kitchens are heavily locale-dependent type resources, and are not distributed according to the needs of the populace, but rather according to the ability and willingness of given communities to sustain them.
  * You skated right past the need for a smartphone, mentioning, then going on to cite libraries for some reason. This is just a non-solution to a gig worker who will receive jobs and report their status/completion via a smartphone while on the go, doing the work. Ergo to even begin gig work, one REQUIRES a smart phone WITH a data plan.
  * And, again, the pay is shit. In my relatively wealthy area, a good Uber Eats driver can make about $13 to $16 an hour, which on it's face sounds okay for a job that requires basic smartphone literacy and a driver's license. But just think about that. For starters, more than half statistically is tips, which aren't guaranteed and are based on performance. A performance, mind, that is subject to dozens of factors entirely outside the control of the driver. Further, it requires the use of the driver's personal vehicle (or one they have access to anyway) which costs obviously fuel, but traveling so many miles so fast will also mean more frequent oil changes, more replacement parts, not to mention a STEEP increase in the odds of bodily injury on the part of the driver, and NONE of this is being handled by Uber. All of these costs and risks are being felt by the driver.
  And that still leaves tons of expenses on the table: insurance for the vehicle, many drivers want to run multiple apps which can require the use of multiple phones and therefore multiple data plans, they need to keep their vehicles clean and tidy for cargo or even passengers, they need to be available at the peak times for orders in order to make any money at all, and even if they do ALL OF THAT right... they are not guaranteed any wage, at all. If they simply don't get orders, or refuse too many and have the systems shadowban them, or simply aren't in the right place, their entire "shift" as it were can be a net loss for them.
  > I guess it just sucks sometimes because these issues are super hairy (shut down Uber, great, now you've just put everyone out of a job). "For every complex problem there is a solution which is clear, simple, and wrong."
  The solution is I think quite simple here: Uber (and all the rest of these gig apps to be clear) should be paying these people a wage, and the people should be driving cars in a fleet owned by Uber. You know, like Taxi companies did. Taxi drivers made tips, sure, occasionally, but they were hourly employees like any other. If they got in a car accident, the company was insured for that, both for the car and the worker. The employees enjoyed at least some benefits, didn't need to maintain or clean their own cars, certainly didn't need to buy the cars, and showed up to a place, on a schedule, and did a job. Like was normal before the "gig economy."
  
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