ianferrel 2 days ago

>the solution came with rearranging and adjusting the cells to ensure the packs worked more efficiently.

>Glubux even began disassembling entire laptop batteries, removing individual cells and organizing them into custom racks. This task, which likely required a great deal of manual labor and technical knowledge, was key to making the system work effectively and sustainably.

This kind of thing is cool as a passion project, but it really just highlights how efficient the modern supply chain is. If you have the skills of a professional electrician, you too can spend hundreds of hours building a home battery system you could just buy for $20k, but is less reliable.

  • pbasista a day ago

    > spend hundreds of hours building a home battery system

    That is, in my opinion, the worst feature of this entire project. It is cool and nice and fun. But it takes a lot of time to research, acquire skills, get tools and build.

    > you could just buy for $20k

    I agree with a broader point but that particular price is extremely high and far from reality.

    A reasonably good 18650 cell has a capacity of ~12 Wh (~3300 mAh * ~3.7 V = ~12.2 Wh). The battery mentioned in the article consists of "more than 1000" such cells. Let us assume 1200 cells. That would mean it has a capacity of ~14.4 kWh (1200 * 12).

    It is possible to get a pre-assembled steel battery case on heavy-duty wheels for 16 LiFePo cells, with a modern BMS with Bluetooth and wired communication options, a touchscreen display, a circuit breaker and nice terminals for ~ $500. And it is also possible to get 16 high quality LiFePo cells with a capacity of ~300 Ah each, like EVE MB31, for significantly less than $100 each. This means that for less than ~$2000, it is possible to get all components required to assemble a fully working ~15 kWh LiFePo battery.

    - That assembly would take a few hours rather than weeks.

    - It will have new cells rather than used ones.

    - It will be safer to use than a battery with Li-Ion cells.

    - It will likely take much less space.

    - It will be easy to expand.

    • volkl48 a day ago

      Now.

      I will point out that in 2016 when they started this project, the cost of new batteries would have been multiple times higher than it is today, so it would have been a moderately more "sensible" thing to do than it currently seems.

      • pbasista 15 hours ago

        Yes, of course, this cost consideration is only relevant today.

        I can imagine that ~9 years ago there might have been very little reasonably priced LiFePO4 cells available and if someone could get their hands on used 18650 cells very cheaply, it might have been a reasonable choice at the time.

        • hinkley 8 hours ago

          Particularly if you can narrow down a couple brands where it tends to be a single cell or two that goes poopy while the rest are still good. Driving around picking up dead batteries that only have 1-2 good cells per pack is a thankless job.

    • ianferrel a day ago

      Thanks for the all the specifics! I admit that my $20k number was a very rough "I'm sure it must be less than this" estimate because I wanted to make sure I erred on the high side for the point I was making.

    • hinkley 8 hours ago

      And there's a non-zero possibility he burns his house down and doesn't have anyone to sue over it.

      At least if he bought a commercial battery and it experiences a lithium fire, he might expect to file a claim against the manufacturer, or his insurance company might on his behalf.

    • aftbit a day ago

      300 Ah * 3.2 V => 960 Wh ~= 1 kWh

      $80 per cell (before shipping) on the top Google product result for EVE MB31.

      That's a good bit cheaper even than when I looked last, in early 2021.

    • mbesto a day ago

      You can get 15 kWh for $1,3000 if you pick up in Texas (these use EVE MB31 which usually end up testing at ~310 Ah): https://www.apexiummall.com/index.php?route=product/product&...

      It just keeps getting cheaper and cheaper every year...

      • pshirshov a day ago

        What 13000? Here in the EU we pay around 3-3.5K for 15 kWh.

        • pbasista 15 hours ago

          I am also in the EU and last year I have purchased a YIXIANG DIY battery case and 16 EVE MB31 cells for a combined cost of less than 2000 EUR without VAT.

          It was shipped from China so I had to wait ~2 months to get it which is a disadvantage. Local warehouse stock was slightly more expensive.

    • fragmede a day ago

      > - It will have new cells rather than used ones.

      This is not a feature. Our Earth is a limited resource, and being able to reuse batteries instead of discarding them to the trash is a desirable property.

      • beacon294 a day ago

        There's even more to the riddle. Lithium recycling, cost of the power loss in old cells. Power transmit cost. Cost of power generation on site.

      • nine_k a day ago

        Pick used EV or industrial batteries. This must be much more efficient due to a larger cell size than in laptops.

        OTOH used laptop batteries can likely be obtained for effectively zero monetary cost, while used EV or solar backup batteries still cost quite noticeable money per kWh. With laptop batteries, you pay with your time; if you for some reason have an excess supply thereof, or you just enjoy this kind of work as a pastime.

      • pbasista 15 hours ago

        > Our Earth is a limited resource

        Of course. No one disputes that. I was just trying to point out that you can get better cells for less money.

        > being able to reuse batteries instead of discarding them to the trash is a desirable property

        I fully agree. No one is trying to suggest that we should discard used batteries into trash.

  • cjbgkagh 2 days ago

    $20K for a home battery backup for someone capable of doing DIY would be far larger than what I assume he has built here. AFAIK the cheaper end is around $340 (2016) per kWh at 20 kWh that would be $6,800. In 2025 at $100 per kWh it would be $2K. If it's worth it would largely depending on a persons post tax required rate of return and how long it would take.

    • gwbas1c 2 days ago

      I spent almost as much as that for a 2 Powerwalls and installation in 2019. (Granted, I got a 3rd back from various incentives that probably weren't available for DIY.)

      DIY (like this project) is only "worth it" if the person doing it enjoys the work or values the lessons.

      • cjbgkagh a day ago

        There is a spectrum of DIY and the sweet spot depends on the person. Since I'm good with electronics my sweet spot is buying premade packs.

      • [removed] a day ago
        [deleted]
    • adamhartenz a day ago

      If you took that same time, and invested it in working at Target, or Amazon etc, would you have more or less money than it would cost to buy an off-the-shelf battery? There are obviously other pros and cons.

      • Transfinity a day ago

        I think Target isn't the right comparison here - the skills required for this project are worth much more than minimum wage bagging groceries. If you assume something like $50 an hour (on the low end for a skilled electrician), you get to the $6800 number in the parent post pretty quickly.

      • cjbgkagh a day ago

        Of the three options, DIY battery packs, premade 100aH battery packs, or white glove powerwall a minimum wage earner would likely not have the skills to DIY the battery packs nor the money to pay for the powerwall.

        Battery packs are an efficient market commodity and that’s pretty hard to beat for value for money.

        Once full installations become more of a commodity then DIY with premade packs becomes less worth it.

  • hinkley 8 hours ago

    That guy who was gaming a bug in the lottery in New England, near as I can figure was making about $20-30 an hour for his troubles. I suspect he may have made more off of selling the movie rights than off of the lottery.

    He made more than he would have working retail for sure, but maybe he could have done better with another job if he weren't fixated on sticking it to the Man.

    This battery thing feels a bit like the same sort of sentiment.

    That said, any task you can do while talking to a friend or binge watching a TV show cannot be accurately accounted for in cost by just how much the clock moved.

  • facile3232 a day ago

    > but it really just highlights how efficient the modern supply chain is

    This "efficiency" relies on the assumption of writing off the entire battery set at sale. That's not impressive at all.

  • supportengineer 2 days ago

    There HAS to be a way to automate this process and make it work at scale.

    • hermitShell 2 days ago

      The problem is likely cost effectiveness compared to just replacing a whole group of cells, compared to one single cell. The unit economics of getting the remaining life from single used laptop battery are not very good. There's certainly lots of potential value for someone willing to do the work, if they can afford the opportunity cost, or if a business can source extremely dirt cheap cells and cheap high skilled labor.

    • joshvm 2 days ago

      You would be amazed how many battery packs are multiple 18650s in a trenchcoat. Even EV battery packs use them. Though it does raise the question - wouldn't an old EV battery be a better solution than stripping apart laptops?

      • 0_____0 2 days ago

        There's a lot that goes into manufacturing battery packs beyond the cells. How's your thermal path to ambient in your home wall battery? How is the inter-cell thermal isolation? Is there a path for gas discharge in the event of a cell failure? Is the pack appropriately fused at the cell or module level? When a cell fails, does it take the whole pack with it, catch someone's apartment building on fire and kill a family of 5, or merely become stinky with a hotspot visible on IR?

        How good is your cell acceptance testing? Do you do X-ray inspection for defects, do ESR vs cycle and potentially destructive testing on a sample of each lot? When a module fails health checks in the field, will you know which customers to proactively contact, and which vendor to reassess?

        Yeah lots of batteries are 18650/26650 in a trenchcoat. The trenchcoats run the gamut from "good, fine" to "you will die of smoke inhalation and have a closed casket" in quality and I think that bears mentioning.

      • ianferrel 2 days ago

        Probably, but EV batteries are large enough that there might be an industrial recycling process for them, while old laptop batteries are basically free because it's too much labor to extract useful value from them.

        • edaemon a day ago

          I'm pretty sure most industrial recycling methods for lithium batteries involve grinding them up, so pack size isn't as much a factor as sheer volume. I think there just wasn't much juice for the squeeze until demand from EVs made recycling worthwhile.

          Here's a video inside a recycling plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ

      • Workaccount2 2 days ago

        >You would be amazed how many battery packs are multiple 18650s in a trenchcoat

        $50 of 18650s in a $500 trenchcoat with DRM protection. So wasteful.

      • mmcwilliams a day ago

        That depends on the problem you're trying to solve. If it's only to build a home power system, sure, but if the goal is "I want to prevent these laptop batteries from ending up in a landfill" then using an old EV battery doesn't really help you much.

      • vel0city a day ago

        FWIW a lot of EVs use prismatic cells, not cylinder cells. Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid use cylindrical cells. Hyundai, Volkswagen, BMW, GM, Ford, and BYD all use prismatic cells.

      • znpy a day ago

        > You would be amazed how many battery packs are multiple 18650s in a trenchcoat

        Also laptop batteries used to be many (usually three or six) 18650s in a plastic trenchcoat.

        You could literally rebuild your battery when it died, and pick the cells you liked the most. In theory you could pick higher-quality cells than those you find in the batteries sold on ebay from chinese stores. In theory.

    • Workaccount2 2 days ago

      There is a lot of liability in sticking your name on a hodge podge of random used lithium cells.

      • dheera a day ago

        I feel like for home battery backup there needs to be some kind of lower energy density solution that has zero fire risk.

        Weight is not a factor for home energy storage, there is no need for lithium cells.

    • beAbU 2 days ago

      Yes, with cheap third world labour, the same way many other technological marvels of the modern era are "automated".

      • harvey9 2 days ago

        This can't be done remote so you will need to bring that labor to where the work is.

    • numpad0 a day ago

      Buying a used Nissan Leaf and using V2H feature in CHAdeMO is it. Or you can remove and use its well-reverse-engineered minimum nominal 24kWh semi-removable battery. But no one wants a Leaf, so there's that.

    • jsight 2 days ago

      From what I've heard, it is more economical to recycle the raw materials than to reuse small packs.

      Reuse of vehicle sized packs seems to be pretty common, though. I'd guess that a DIY home backup could be built pretty easily from used vehicle batteries.

      • garciasn 2 days ago

        The dude has a warehouse/workshop to do this work and house the system. I’m super impressed by what he’s accomplished, don’t get me wrong; but, what he’s done just isn’t viable for 99.99999999999% of people.

        Give me an array and battery system that can pull off the grid and/or array and power most of my home without me having to think a whole lot or pay a vendor thousands to install while making the total cost under $1000 and I’ll do it.

        Until then, it just isn’t financially viable when my electricity costs are well under $70/month average across the year.

        Recouping the costs for install of solar systems are estimated at 30-40 years as of 4 years ago when I researched it. I’m sorry, but that’s just not worth it for me and most others.

    • raincole a day ago

      Of course, but you will also 'scale' the safety implications.

    • rolandog a day ago

      Standardizing battery packs would probably help with the automation; like with USB-C.

    • dehrmann a day ago

      Isn't the problem with parasitic charging? Suppose you had a bunch of used 18650 cells. To scale the electronics, they'll be wired up in parallel and/or series so the charging logic can be shared, but since the batteries are wildly mismatched, it results in parasitic charging.

    • idiotsecant 2 days ago

      You would never do this in a production product. You need batteries with similar internal impedances or undesirable things happen. This is the battery equivalent of the guy who welds two car front ends together and drives it around. It's cool and quirky but not a useful product for most people.

  • immibis a day ago

    You can read it the other way around: with labour and knowledge, you can save $20k.

    And with even more passion and commitment and with business skills, you could earn $20k at a time.

scott113341 2 days ago

"I made 14 kWh more during lockdown"

https://secondlifestorage.com/index.php?threads/glubuxs-powe...

^ has a wild picture of full setup

  • orbital-decay 2 days ago

    That fire extinguisher looks ridiculously useless for a setup like this. Good thing it's a separate shed, at least.

    • function_seven a day ago

      What would be an appropriate suppression system here? That's a lotta batteries all arranged like a boy scout arranges kindling logs for a campfire.

      A roof-mounted water tank with a thousand gallons ready to dump into the shed? A drum of baking soda?

      Or maybe rebuild the shed out of cinder block and clear any overhanging vegetation?

      Maybe this whole setup is on desert dirt with plenty of clearance. The fire plan is "run away and wait."

      • belval a day ago

        A ton of sand, but that's the main issue with those systems and why it's genuinely impractical as anything but a hobbyist project. They need constant monitoring as all of those cells are from laptop and risk thermal runaway at some point. Even with the best matching possible some cell in his configuration will have higher internal resistance and create heat. "Real" large off-grid systems all use LiFePO4 and are unlikely to just catch fire. That being said from the forum post he seems well aware and he probably has individual fuse for each cell.

        You could also just bury it so that the worst of the explosion is mostly mitigated. I've also seen small container setup which would probably work better than his (seemingly) wooden shed.

        • hinkley 8 hours ago

          I wonder if the correct solution here is build the shed far away from house and trees, on a cinderblock foundation filled in the middle with 8+ inches of sand, and you just stand back with the garden hose to keep everything around it moist.

      • [removed] a day ago
        [deleted]
    • sethhochberg 2 days ago

      Not gonna do you any good if the batteries themselves start going off, but if something else has ignited in the cabinet and the batteries are not yet on fire... you'd be glad to have the extinguisher, I bet

    • hinkley 8 hours ago

      It's definitely now in the wrong spot. I assume that once upon a time there was one rack against the wall, and it was only slightly irresponsibly placed, and now there are two racks and hey kids, heat rises.

      The extinguisher should be directly inside the door so as not to attract someone to traverse farther into the building without an escape plan.

      Of course if he did so then there would be no extinguishers in the picture and then we would also bitch about it.

    • philipwhiuk a day ago

      The only purpose of a fire extinguisher is to allow you to get out. They do not contain enough water to adequately put out any real life fire (especially not an electrical one like this).

      If he can't reach to grab it because it's too hot, he should have already left.

      • hinkley 8 hours ago

        I think I'd rather have the extinguisher near the door.

        If you are outside, it does not tempt you to cross the room. If you are inside, you run for the door, and then turn around and decide if maybe you should just keep running.

      • rkagerer a day ago

        I hope it doesn't contain any water at all!

        Dry Powder or CO2 is what you need for energized electrical equipment. And considering there's potential lithium involvement, you might want something more specialized (e.g. F-500 Encapsulator Agent). I agree anything more than a small-scale incident you're just getting the heck out of dodge. I'd have built something along the lines of a concrete bunker, with an automated suppression system to buy time.

    • timewizard 2 days ago

      The fire extinguisher is in the wrong place entirely. If the setup is on fire are you really going to reach _in there_ to grab the extinguisher?

      There's no protection over the bus connections. Any falling conductive item is now a spark hazard.

      Using spring loaded alligator clips as test leads apparently for monitoring. I hope that's not a permanent configuration.

      Everything is bolted down and I see no inline disconnects or even any fusing except on low voltage sections.

      There are exhaust fans but I can't tell if there's inlet fans.

      From this one picture, which may not be fair, this is not a safe setup. I would feel uncomfortable with this on my property.

      • hinkley 8 hours ago

        Let us hope that all the wires above the battery packs are of the same polarity. I can't tell for sure if that's the case but I hope the two that are closest together are just book-ended.

    • dgfitz a day ago

      I experienced a 400v DC lithium ion battery catch on fire once, it was very scary. That fire extinguisher won't do much at all, even if it is placed in a more logical spot.

      The firemen ended up putting the battery, half melted, into a big drum of water and it hook hours to cool off. The concrete was still warm to the touch where it burned for ~30 hours after the situation was sorted out.

      The smoke was just absolutely unbelievable. Made me reconsider buying an EV. That fire was no joke.

      The MV contactor wasn't even closed, it had 24v powering it for the internal cell balancer from the vendor, that was it.

      • bmicraft a day ago

        Even though it might not seem like it because reporting on burning cars is very selective, EVs do catch fire a lot less than gar powered cars - even when adjusted for how many there are on the road. Additinally, many new EVs use cheaper LFP batteries now that are almost impossible catch on fire.

        • dgfitz a day ago

          I hear you and appreciate your point, I just don’t think they’re for me. Maybe when my kids are grown. Scary does t begin to describe what happens, the amount of energy is mind-boggling.

  • [removed] a day ago
    [deleted]
  • MrBuddyCasino 2 days ago

    Everything worth doing is worth over-doing. He should start doing mad scientist experiments and produce ball lightning, the amperage could be sufficient.

koolba 2 days ago

While very interesting, that seems like it would be one hell of a fire hazard as well. Especially for the ones that are tightly packed in the middle of each bundle.

  • theandrewbailey 2 days ago

    > This growth forced the creator to build a separate warehouse, located about 50 meters from his home, to store the batteries and the new charge controllers and inverters.

    The hazard appears to be accounted for.

    • TheBlight a day ago

      Yeah wind has never been known to blow fires 50 meters.

      • [removed] a day ago
        [deleted]
      • timbit42 a day ago

        How do you know the prevailing wind direction in his location?

  • johnisgood 2 days ago

    > Despite being an unusual system, with recycled and homemade components, no major problems have been reported, such as fires or swollen batteries, which is a common issue with some second-hand electronic devices.

    That said, one should be prepared for it.

    • rtkwe 2 days ago

      AFAIK 18650s like he's using never swell as they're in hard metal shells not pouches like most consumer electronics, so they don't have the ability to swell until they're catastrophically damaged. He's built a small building 50m away from his house to hold it anyways so it can probably be safely allowed to just burn, it's not like fire departments have much better options than waiting for it to burn out and hoping it doesn't reignite anyways.

      • bigfatkitten a day ago

        > AFAIK 18650s like he's using never swell as they're in hard metal shells not pouches like most consumer electronics, so they don't have the ability to swell until they're catastrophically damaged.

        They do swell, but they swell at the terminals rather than at the sides.

  • tomxor 2 days ago

    They don't look tightly packed compared to the constraints of being inside laptops and phones where they are given millimetres to expand.

  • misnome 2 days ago

    Yeah, my first thought on reading the article was that it didn’t detail his fire control systems..

    • rtkwe 2 days ago

      That's the neat part about lithium fires you just can't, they're self oxidizing so there's not much you can do to definitively put them out the best option is usually to flood them with water to cool them down and contain the damage they cause.

      • em3rgent0rdr a day ago

        Yeah. Commercial home solar battery power as I understand is done with safer chemistries, such as lithium iron phosphate, which while they have a lower energy density (which is not a big downside for a stationary building) don't have the thermal runaway issues that labtop lithium ion batteries have. I wouldn't want to live next door to the DIY labtop battery array enthusiast.

    • extrapickles 2 days ago

      They keep the power pack in a shed away from anything too flammable. They could lose the shed, but it would be unlikely to take the house with it.

  • elif 2 days ago

    My thoughts as well, and that's coming from someone who sleeps directly above 2 powerwalls

    • bee_rider 2 days ago

      Sounds like it is out in a shed.

      Also the guy who made this battery pack has the incentive to not burn down his house, whoever made yours has the incentive of one more day on the assembly line… I dunno, wouldn’t judge him too harshly.

      • em3rgent0rdr a day ago

        Commercial solar home battery use safer battery chemistries which don't experience thermal runaway like lithium ion labtop batteries do..

ChuckMcM a day ago

It's all fun and games until one of those thousand batteries decides to go exothermic :-). This is a really amazing story and I'm impressed by the diligence and amount of effort they put into recovering and reusing all of these batteries. A couple of dendrites though, a lightning strike, there are things outside of their control that could turn the building holding this collection of batteries into a very impressive incendiary device. If you've ever seen a fire at a battery factory, it is both fascinating and scary af. People are still trying to assess the long term damage from the Moss Landing grid scale battery fire in California.

  • sizzle a day ago

    I had an 18650 flashlight and saw a video of them spontaneously turning into a flare with rocket thruster like flames and got rid of it immediately. These batteries are scary powerful when it gives off the magic smoke.

    • ChuckMcM a day ago

      That they are, energy is energy. I was part of a Battlebots team and that is where I learned the smell of various rechargeable battery chemistries when they burned :-). We also had an exothermic adventure with a battery pack we built, fortunately it was not at an event, it was in earlier testing, but it forever gave me a healthy respect for those batteries.

zejn 19 hours ago

I find it amusing how a lot of people immmediately recognize 1000s of old laptop battery cells in a wooden shed a fire risk.

But they were as much of a fire risk (if not more) before being recycled, they were just spread out along the e-waste bins!

Every time I hear of a waste processing plant fire, I wonder if there was a (lithium) battery involved. Maybe from a single use vape, or a child's toy.

ge96 2 days ago

If you like this stuff Jehu Garcia on YT does this

Those scooters in the streets get discarded/buy em in bulk and re-use the batteries for ex

  • silisili a day ago

    Sitting congressman Massie also has a few videos on YT about buying a wrecked Model S to scavenge its battery to power his house. Not quite the same as it's just one big battery, but cool idea nonetheless.

    They are rather short and show the setup more than the construction and nitty gritty, IIRC

  • RajT88 2 days ago

    Where can I get one? I have seen that the Chinese manufacturers who made the scooters for Bird, etc. have been taking advantage of the discarded units by selling conversion kits to turn them into normal eScooters.

    • tecleandor a day ago

      From what I've seen, some people buy them from Police or city auctions. Scooters that are "towed" because they're left in an inappropriate place, often are not picked by the companies that own them, so they're left for the city to auction them or whatever.

    • ge96 2 days ago

      I'm not sure where, I've just seen some of his videos where he takes apart scooters

elicash a day ago

Folks are correct this is dangerous. But you could imagine a world where batteries were required to be built in a way that this type of tinkering of individual cells and matching them was safer.

If it could be done, would certainly would be better than turning batteries into "black mass."

lenerdenator a day ago

Something tells me his home insurance agent didn't know about this.

  • frakkingcylons a day ago

    It'd be interesting if they added this to the standard questionnaire - does your dwelling have sprinklers? ... oh and how many watt-hours do you have in battery storage?

em3rgent0rdr a day ago

Why are lithium ion phone and labtop batteries still legal considering their saftey risks? There are safer battery chemestries that aren't quite as energy-dense. But phones and laptops were capable-enough 15 years ago and performance-per watt is constantly improving. Sure, we might not be able to light up all the pixels on our screen and stream gigs of data constantly and won't be able to train AI models when our labtop is not plugged into the wall, but we sufficed just fine on the performance of last-decade's mobile devices.

  • cdblades 17 hours ago

    > considering their saftey risks

    The safety risks are marginal and you interact with plenty of other things/systems daily that are at least as dangerous.

    > here are safer battery chemestries that aren't quite as energy-dense ^ that's the answer.

    > But phones and laptops were capable-enough 15 years ago They absolutely weren't.

    > we sufficed just fine on the performance of last-decade's mobile devices. I don't want to suffice.

    All that said, I do think battery research is probably one of the most important things "we" can be doing (and energy storage in general), so I'm all about putting in the money and time to find improvements.

  • gloosx a day ago

    By that logic, we would have to ban cars, gas stoves and even kitchen knives.

    Everything has risks — its about managing them. Lithium ion batteries are widely used because their benefits outweight the risks when handled properly.

    Its like saying, “Why are candles still legal? They can start fires.” Well, because people know how to use them responsibly.

  • Workaccount2 15 hours ago

    Because the actual risk is so far overblown.

    Why do we still let kids go outside when there are so many kidnappings?

    The samsung battery debacle around the note 7, which made headlines for weeks, was from 0.003% of phones catching fire.

  • reassess_blind a day ago

    Phones and laptops were not capable enough 15 years ago for what we expect of them today.

Gathering6678 a day ago

First thing to come in my mind is fire hazard...

"Despite being an unusual system, with recycled and homemade components, no major problems have been reported, such as fires or swollen batteries..."

But when it eventually happens, without a proper fire extinguish system, I would assume every thing would go up in high-temp flames with no easy way of putting them out?

ferguess_k a day ago

I wonder if there is a more practical tutorial to route a power generator into the house with sort of a power switch. I don't know the exact phrase but basically I can route a few things like the fridge or the lights to this switch so they switch to the generator when there is an outage.

I know it can be done because I asked an electrician. But I dropped the idea when he said it could cost a lot (if done by a professional).

  • briHass a day ago

    Depending on your breaker panel, the cheapest way to do this is with an interlock kit ($20) designed for your panel type. A low-tech solution that mechanically locks out a designated breaker (usually upper right) unless the main breaker is off.

    The breaker that is exclusively locked out when main is on is connected to an outdoor receptacle for the generator cable. When the power goes out, you switch off the main breaker and the interlock now allows you to switch on the generator's breaker. This serves as the backfeed of power into the rest of the circuits from the generator.

    The nice thing about this setup is the ability to use all the other breakers to control what loads you want on the generator. Downside is it isn't automatic.

    • genewitch a day ago

      This is what I do, I have a long "extension cord" - 50' or so, of whatever gauge can carry 50A, with giant nema-50 plugs on both ends. I may be mistaken about the amp rating, but I'm pretty sure it's 6AWG. My whole house generator is a Ford dual fuel 11kW I have in an air conditioned shed. I only have to shut off my water heater, everything else runs fine.

  • bigfatkitten a day ago

    > I know it can be done because I asked an electrician. But I dropped the idea when he said it could cost a lot (if done by a professional).

    If you have to ask, this is absolutely not the sort of work you should do yourself. Use a licensed electrician.

    • ferguess_k 15 hours ago

      Definitely true for my primary house. I agree with you, just curious about the technology just in case I need to do something similar to my future cabin -- for example solar power + generator switch -- I guess the the principle is the same.

  • BrandoElFollito a day ago

    This is not difficult - you need to dedicate a few circuits (cables) and have them end on the generator (or UPS for some). It requires planning but the cost is not especially high (more cables must be used)

    • ferguess_k a day ago

      Thanks. I think I got the name of the device, it's called ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch). Is this the things I should install?

      • BrandoElFollito 12 hours ago

        I did not do anything that complex. I dedicated some lines (cables) to certain devices and they are behind a UPS (generator in your case). Nothing fancy.

        And by "I" I mean "a professional electrician" :) - I just did the design of what I want where.

      • eldaisfish a day ago

        take the other person's advice - get an electrician.

        • ferguess_k 16 hours ago

          Thanks, you know what, I'll just use a long industrial grade cord...I guess the lights and fridges can wait a few minutes :D

          The only issue is central heating for winter as it's pretty harsh in Canada, but that's a bit too much for a generator I think. Maybe a few smaller heating units instead.

  • quickthrowman a day ago

    Hire an electrician please, I sell and run electrical work and a generator installation is not something you should take on yourself.

    If you want to have a few electrical loads on a generator backed panel, you have an electrician install the generator, automatic transfer switch, and a subpanel that is fed by the automatic transfer switch, which is fed by both utility power (from a breaker in your main electrical panel) and generator power. If you’re using natural gas or propane to power the generator, a pipe fitter will need to run the gas line.

    Then you tell the electrician to move the circuits you wanted backed by a generator from your main panel to the subpanel fed by the ATS. The subpanel receives power from the utility until the ATS detects an outage, which fires up the generator and transfers the power feeding the subpanel to the generator.

    Generators can use gasoline, diesel, natural gas, or propane, or a combination of any of the aforementioned fuels. Ideally you’d have a multi fuel generator hooked up to a natural gas utility with a backup propane tank in case the natural gas service goes down.

    You can also get a whole house generator and have the ATS feed your existing electrical panel, you’ll need a 24kW 120/240V for a 100A service or 48kW 120/240V for a 200A service

    I’d recommend a Generac generator if you do get one, Costco sells them and will connect you with an installer.

    If you want to get crazy, you could add a 50kva single-phase 120/240V UPS and the UPS would keep the power on while the generator starts up but that would be serious overkill (and tens of thousands of dollars).

    • genewitch a day ago

      US isn't single phase.

      • neallindsay 17 hours ago

        Even though our transmission is three-phase, most homes in the US only get single-phase power.

      • quickthrowman 16 hours ago

        I sell and run union electrical work for a living in the United States.

        Residential power in the US is 120/240V single-phase (split phase). Utility distribution is three-phase and virtually every commercial and industrial electrical service is three-phase, with the rest being 120/240V single-phase.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

[removed] a day ago
[deleted]
bsoles a day ago

I am a DIY electronics enthusiast, but the Internet made me scared of line power applications.

If one of those batteries develops a short circuit and the house catches fire, no insurance company on Earth would pay for damages, so they say.

nyanpasu64 a day ago

The photos show soldering to Li-ion battery terminals. Doesn't that cause internal heat damage as opposed to spot welding?

thecosas 2 days ago

Anyone have links to some of the actual posts this person made? The article is a bit light on actual details, sourcing, etc. beyond citing their username/alias.

blatantly a day ago

Don't try this at home kids. I'd at least keep those batteries at least in a dedicated steel structure 100m from the house.

swiftcoder a day ago

Aside from the obvious fire risk, is this approaching the size where one would have to be concerned about arc flash?

ironbound a day ago

Anyone built a home power system with Sodium-ion Battery Packs?

[removed] a day ago
[deleted]
djoldman a day ago

As someone completely unqualified for this type of work, this looks scary AF.

[removed] a day ago
[deleted]
louwrentius 2 days ago

I would highly recommend not to go this route but to buy LFP prismatic cells. Much safer, stable chemistry that isn’t as sensitive to heat.

Look at Off Grid Garage (Andy) or Will Prowse YT channels for more info.

system2 a day ago

I like how the article only shows a blurry RC battery charging station instead of the real stuff he did.

EGreg a day ago

Why not just dig a hole in the ground and make a gravity battery? Would be much more reusable without all the lithium garbage ... and also probably more efficient...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_battery

And the most efficient way would probably be to just have credits with the rest of the city grid. Sell electricity to them when you have a surplus (from solar) and then pay for electricity when you need it. These credits are a lot more efficient than storing the actual electricity in a battery hehe

  • tecleandor a day ago

    But how expensive would be to dig a, I don't know, 1000 by 6 feet hole in the ground? I have no idea of an equivalent gravity battery...

    • thfuran a day ago

      The average US household uses about 10,000 kwhr per year. That's roughly equivalent to the gravitational energy of dropping ten tons down a 200 mile hole.

      • EGreg a day ago

        The battery doesn’t have to hold the entire year’s energy — come on :-P

        • mft_ 20 hours ago

          Indeed, but to store (let's say) half a day's energy, then (based on the previous calculation) it would presumably need ten tons dropping down a hole 0.274 miles, or 441 metres, deep?

  • numpad0 a day ago

    holes in the ground are just wells, and gravity batteries are just dams. don't reinvent the square wheels, please...

twalla 2 days ago

Link to the primary source because the article is light on details and has a broken link:

https://secondlifestorage.com/index.php?threads/glubuxs-powe...

OkGoDoIt a day ago

A man powers home via solar panels and a thousand old laptop batteries. Makes a big difference! My first thought on seeing headline here was confusion, I thought maybe he was using residual charge from used laptop batteries or something.

Kaytaro a day ago

The 2nd quote is when I realized this article was written or assisted by AI. Not that it's a big deal, that's our world now. But it's interesting to notice the subtle 'accent' that gives it away.

  • Vegenoid a day ago

    I'm not on board with accepting AI-written articles. This is an article with little to no human input, farming clicks for ad revenue, that doesn't even link to the forum post, which is far more interesting and has pictures: https://secondlifestorage.com/index.php?threads/glubuxs-powe...

    The article contains little detail, and has lots of filler like the quote in the parent comment. It's highly upvoted on HN's front page, which is surprising to me because I think there is quite a bit of distaste here for low-effort content to drive clicks.

    The thing the article is referencing is interesting, but the article is trash.

    • zonkerdonker a day ago

      @dang, maybe we can get the link updated? This forum post is better in every way

    • facile3232 a day ago

      > I'm not on board with accepting AI-written articles.

      I haven't been on board with the "journalism" of the last fifty years, but this hasn't exactly prompted it to improve. Newspapers still have advertisements. Subscribers still have no say over editorial staff. The board still has say over the editorial staff. It's all fucked unless we can punt private ownership out of the equation.

      • namaria a day ago

        80% of everything is crap. This isn't a very insightful position to take. One of the reasons I like Hacker News is it helps me find good stuff to read. Which this article isn't. So I will respectfully rebuff your rebuttal.

      • organsnyder a day ago

        What changed fifty years ago? You're pointing out issues that have existed for centuries.

  • dartos a day ago

    What about it gives off the AI smell to you?

    • zahlman a day ago

      Because it's presenting a bunch of smooth prose that utterly fails at logical continuity.

      1. What point is the author trying to make? Leading off "Glubux even began" implies that the effort was extraordinary in some way, but if this action was "key to making the system work effectively and sustainably" then it can't really have been that extraordinary. The writing is confused between trying to make the effort sound exceptional vs. giving a technical explanation of how the end result works.

      2. Why, exactly, would "removing individual cells and organizing them into custom racks" be "key to making the system work effectively and sustainably"?

      3. How is the system's effectiveness related to its sustainable operation; why should these ideas be mentioned in the same breath?

      4. Why is the author confident about the above points, but unsure about the level of "manual labor and technical knowledge" that would be required?

      Aside from that, overall it just reads like what you'd expect to find in a high school essay.

      Edit: after actually taking a look at TFA, another thing that smells off to me is the way that bold text is used. It seems very unnatural to me.

    • endtime a day ago

      Nice try, ChatGPT.

      More seriously, for me it's the "likely".

      • ziddoap a day ago

        Using "likely" is indicative of AI now...?

        Absurd.

        The only thing as annoying as people using AI and passing it off as their own writing is the people who claim everything written not exactly how they are used to is AI.

    • realprimoh a day ago

      this part: "key to making the system work effectively and sustainably".

  • immibis a day ago

    I think a giveaway is:

    > This task, which likely required a great deal of manual labor and technical knowledge

    If you were a human writing this, you might consider asking the man how much labour and knowledge the task took. Writing AIs don't ask questions.

recursive 2 days ago

A thousand old laptop batteries and bunch of solar panels. The headline is a touch nonsensical as-is.

  • Sharlin a day ago

    I was thinking maybe he had a very low-energy home.

    • brewtide a day ago

      Somewhere in his posts I think I read that his house at 'idle' is drawing like 30watts. That seems pretty low energy to me!

      • recursive a day ago

        Not low enough to run for 8 years without a recharge.

passive a day ago

My sad brain keeps insisting this headline contains the phrase "thousand year old laptop batteries", which said brain also assures me is impossible.

moffkalast 2 days ago

1000 years is pretty old for a battery, I'm surprised they still work /s

  • dylan604 2 days ago

    I wonder if we've had to re-learn how to make batteries like they did in the 11th century similar to how we had to re-learn the Roman concrete formula.

jms703 a day ago

These April Fool's jokes are getting ridiculous. Almost had me for a moment.

pftburger 2 days ago

In other news: Man burns down house using 1k old laptop battery (cells)

Thank the powers that be no one will give my neighbours a permit for that.

  • downboots a day ago

    They should also have enough skill for a fire suppression system

nottorp 2 days ago

> A man powers home for eight years using a thousand old laptop batteries

... a single charge for each?

And speaking of applications that are too smart for their own good, why does Firefox start a drag operation when I click on a link instead of allowing me to select the text?

iancmceachern 2 days ago

This is so dangerous, and not covered by insurance.

  • rsync a day ago

    I can only speak for the United States, but, generally, homeowners insurance “covers stupid” as they say in the biz..