Comment by veggieroll

Comment by veggieroll 3 days ago

I can totally relate. I had the same experience in grade school science class, where the teacher assigned an experiment with a suggested solution and an invitation to come up with your own method.

I was the only person in class that chose to do my own method. And, it didn't work because I didn't account for an environmental difference between my house and the school classroom. And, he gave me a failing grade.

It really killed my interest in physics for a long time. I focused on biology from then through college.

Ultimately, the problem was that he didn't make clear that the only thing that we were being graded on was accuracy, not experimental methods or precision. (My solution was precise, but inaccurate; whereas the standard solution was accurate but imprecise) Also, it's possible everyone else in class knew the culture of the school, and I didn't because it was my first year there. So, I didn't realize that they didn't value creativity in the way I was used to.

lukan 3 days ago

We had the task of building a highly insulated small house. Big enough to hold a hot cup of tea (and meassure how good it holds its temperature inside).

Our design was very, very good in that regard. (I used insulation building material from the house my family build at that time) But granted, it was not so pretty.

But that was not a stated goal. But when it came to grades, suddenly design and subjective aesthetics mattered and a pretty house, but useless in terms of insulation won. And we did not failed, but got kind of a bad result and I stopped believing in that teachers fairness.

Reply View 3 replies

potato3732842 2 days ago

I mean, the other side of the coin is that engineering schools are a giant circle jerk that churn out thousands of graduates every year who if left to their own devices will design things that cannot be made out of inputs and using processes that are not appropriate.
I'm not saying you gotta prioritize looks but you gotta think a few steps ahead and understand what the ancillary criteria that will make or break a design all else being equal, or nearly equal are or what the unstated assumptions of the party evaluating your work (e.g won't look like ass, can be made in volume, etc.) are.

Reply View | 2 replies
- lukan 2 days ago
  
  The main design goals were:
  - construct a house with good insulation
  No word of it being pretty. Houses should look pretty, but it wasn't art class, but physics. And the physics teacher clearly said insulation is the goal (so we learn about the concept).
  We had a funtional house (roof, walls, windows, door) with very good insulation. The winning house just looked pretty and its insulation was basically nonexistent.
  
  Reply View | 1 reply
  
  potato3732842 2 days ago
  
  I get that, and think that "pretty" is a dumb goal because what's "pretty" is usually just cargo culting of whatever works. But I think reading your customer is a useful lesson, but probably should be taught intentionally not accidentally via bad teaching.
  
  Reply View | 0 replies

tomxor 3 days ago

The irony is that you learned something. Failure is a very useful learning opportunity in understanding what affects the success of an experiment, so long as you analyse it and demonstrate that, which arguably is where you should have been encouraged and graded. Compared to accidentally succeeding while following a standard procedure.

I write learning software, and this is an interesting pedagogical weakness we've become aware of when giving feedback (the asymmetry of learning opportunity in correct vs incorrect). It can be improved through overall design, and in a digital context there are also other opportunities.

Reply View 3 replies

im3w1l 2 days ago

Yes he learned to avoid physics. Good job teacher!

Reply View | 2 replies
- tomxor 2 days ago
  
  Well, yes unfortunately, but the takeaway should be scepticism of the validity of learning institutions, something most of us aren't prepared to even consider at a younger age.
  
  Reply View | 1 reply
  
  veggieroll 2 days ago
  
  > scepticism of the validity of learning institutions
  Can confirm, this is solidly wedged into my opinions now. There were a lot of other experiences after this to compound that feeling.
  In High School, I started looking aggressively for a less traditional path and fortunately found one. It really saved me, because I was forced back into the traditional environment in Senior year of high school, and my grades tanked from top-of-class to "you might need summer school to graduate" level
  Things got a lot better in college, because that experience (among others) helped me effectively navigate the institution, jump directly into more advanced coursework, and earn more freedom to study things that were interesting to me.
  I did get a job in my field out of college. So, my college pedigree was useful practically (though not really any knowledge I got there). But, I'm self-taught dev now, which is an amazing fit for my experience and attitude.
  
  Reply View | 0 replies

morgoths_bane 2 days ago

That’s awful honestly, did you ever regain that interest in physics later in life?

Reply View 1 reply

veggieroll 2 days ago

No, indeed I found a way to skip physics in high school (though this wasn't really why). But, I was interested in Biology, taking almost enough for a minor in it in college.
I'm a self-taught dev now. And, that fits really well for me, despite being completely unrelated to my college degrees. I work mostly with other self-taught, passionate about software people. And I'm loving that.
But, I do have very strong opinions on institutions and pedagogy. I've gotten into some pretty epic arguments about it with my wife, who is a music teacher. And, her experience has been so completely opposite of mine.
From the way she tells it, classical music seems to be the ultimate discipline where structured education is paramount. And, I have such a negative opinion of traditional methods that it's caused some friction.

Reply View | 0 replies