Comment by legitster

Comment by legitster 3 months ago

359 replies | 2 pages

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive.

There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction.

Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is a vice, and like it or not, this could just be the beginning of our society beginning to scrutinize these platforms.

epolanski 3 months ago

I don't understand the argument here, Tik Tok would maximize their monetization in US but not in other markets?

I don't buy it.

  • mywittyname 3 months ago

    Think of it like consumer protection laws - Ford has higher safety requirements for the vehicles they sell domestically than they do for those sold in Mexico. Thus, it could be argued that they are not maximizing their monetization of the US market by cutting out expensive safety features that consumers don't pay extra for.

    China is wise to have such laws to protect their citizens.

  • btbuildem 3 months ago

    I am a farmer, I grow tomatoes. The ones I sell to large markets, I use pesticides, herbicides, petrochemical fertilizers, etc etc. The ones I grow for my own consumption and for sale at the local market -- those get organic compost and no chemical treatments.

    • xnx 3 months ago

      I am a customer. I eat tomatoes. I choose which tomatoes to buy on my personal preferences.

      • btbuildem 3 months ago

        This presumes that:

        1) I sell to you my special and cherished resource. You may live in the fever dream of "market rules all", but a cold surprise may come that not everyone does.

        2) You can afford what I sell - especially if political winds blow so that your benevolent rulers choose to impose 1000% tariffs on my good tomatoes

        3) That you even _know_ there's a difference, and that tomatoes come from a farm and not the store or a can.

  • ineedasername 3 months ago

    Where is TikTok not maximizing monetization? If you mean the GP's comment on China's ban on the algorithm originally used then you are missing a critical aspect of that: It wasn't TikTok's choice to stop or decrease monetization there.

    Also, even if they were differently monetizing by region, you are also missing the non-monetary reasons this might happen: Manipulation & propaganda. Even aside from any formal policy by the Chinese govermnent self-censorship by businesses and individuals for anything the Party might not like is very common. Also common is the government dictating the actions a Chinese company may take abroad for these same efforts in influencing foreign opinions.

  • legitster 3 months ago

    Corporations in China all operate at the behest of "the people" (aka the party). If the government thinks a product is damaging or harmful to society, it can be taken off the market without any legal mechanisms necessary.

    • bdndndndbve 3 months ago

      Unlike in America where... they say it's a national security threat and vote to remove it?

      • BugsJustFindMe 3 months ago

        Only the control by a foreign adversary part is being threatened in the US, not the algorithmic opium part twisting the minds of the population. They're two different things. The US so far has no qualms with it if an American is in control of the strings. That's where China differs.

      • JumpCrisscross 3 months ago

        > they say it's a national security threat and vote to remove it?

        From app stores and American hosting. Only if Bytedance doesn’t sell TikTok to e.g. a French or Indian or American owner. TikTok.com will still resolve (unless Bytedance blocks it).

        China literally blocks information.

      • herval 3 months ago

        Any country has mechanisms to ban products the government deems as bad. I think the point is those are much more liberally used in China vs in the US, not that the US would be unable to do it

      • toss1 3 months ago

        1) A single party apparatus determines something must be removed, and by fiat it is immediately removed

        2) Multiple agencies investigate and make a determination that a real threat exists, the threat and measures to resolve it are debated strongly in two houses of Congress between strongly opposing parties, an passes with bi-partisan support, the law is signed by the President, then the law is upheld through multiple challenges in multiple courts and panels of judges, finally being upheld by the Supreme Court of the country. And no, this is not yet a situation where the country has fallen into autocracy so the institutions have all been corrupted to serve the executive (I.e., not like Hungary, Venezuela, Russia, etc.).

        If you think these are the same... I'll just be polite and say the ignorance expressed in that post is truly stunning and wherever you got your education has deeply failed — yikes.

  • dockd 3 months ago

    > algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China

    Sounds like they tried.

  • tokioyoyo 3 months ago

    Frankly, I’m not sure what these comments even mean. Douyin (Chinese TikTok) has the same level of brainrot content, except with some restrictions (political and societal level stuff). Chinese kids are as much addicted to it as Western kids to TikTok/IG, from what I’ve seen.

stonesthrowaway 3 months ago

> TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created.

What nonsense.

> The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive.

"Apparently"? Tiktok was forced to separate itself into a chinese version and the non-chinese version by the US because we didn't want "da ccp" controlling tiktok.

> There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction.

There is no historic symmetry. Unless china invades the US and forces americans to use tiktok. Like britain invaded china ( opium wars ) and forced opium on china's population.

What's with all the same propaganda in every tiktok/china related thread? The same talking points on every single thread for the past few years.

  • tmnvdb 3 months ago

    "Tiktok was forced to separate itself into a chinese version and the non-chinese version by the US because we didn't want "da ccp" controlling tiktok."

    You're talking about Propaganda but you are spreading straight up fake news.

    ByteDance initially released Douyin in China in September 2016. ByteDance introduced TikTok for users outside of China in 2017.

    There was no "split", let alone one "forced by the US".

    • stonesthrowaway 3 months ago

      > There was no "split", let alone one "forced by the US".

      There was no split? You wrote: "ByteDance initially released Douyin in China in September 2016. ByteDance introduced TikTok for users outside of China in 2017."

      You say there was no split while explicitly proving that there was split? You're not that stupid are you?

      Why do you think "tiktok" was created in 2017 when bytedance already had douyin( aka tiktok ) in 2016?

      Why is there a "tiktok" for china and a "tiktok" for everyone else? Because the "tiktok in china ( duoyin ) was influenced by the chinese government and to appease the US, bytedance branched off tiktok from "douyin".

      • tmnvdb 3 months ago

        I doesn't have anything to do with "appeasing" the US, the Chinese version is heavily filtered and tilted towards CPP prefered activities and worldview, such a platform would never work on the international market and they know it.

        And it obviously is not a split if they are seperate apps from the beginning. Why do you lie so much btw?

  • JumpCrisscross 3 months ago

    > Tiktok was forced to separate itself into a chinese version and the non-chinese version by the US because we didn't want "da ccp" controlling tiktok

    No. TikTok was forced to put its data on American servers [1].

    Douyin was launched in 2016 as musical.ly, and is unrelated to U.S. pressure. (EDIT: Douyin was launched in 2016, TikTok in 2017. Musical.ly was acquired in 2017 and merged into/basically became TikTok. TikTok has never been in China.)

    [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/tiktok-moves-us-user-data...

  • hombre_fatal 3 months ago

    What viewpoint is your use of “da ccp” supposed to disparage?

    • whateveracct 3 months ago

      I think people (Americans) who view China as a geopolitical rival/enemy of the United States?

  • herval 3 months ago

    how did Britain force the Chinese population to consume Opium?

    • adolph 3 months ago

        >> Like britain invaded china ( opium wars ) and forced opium on china's population.
      
        > how did Britain force the Chinese population to consume Opium?
      
      The Chinese government of the time had banned opium and the British worked to bypass that, eventually with governmental force.
      • herval 3 months ago

        I'm not saying Britain didn't do something _against the will of the goverment_. I'm just questioning OP's nonsense that individuals were forced to consume Opium vs not forced to consume TikTok - in both cases, clearly nobody was forced. And in both cases, it's products made to be addictive.

        • adolph 3 months ago

          The specific words were “china's population” which is different from any specific person.

          Did the English strap down each individual and intravenously administer opium? Unlikely.

          To the extent that a government reflects the general sense and purpose of a population (mandate of heaven, etc), did Queen Victoria and all her subjects force people in China to accept the presence and marketing of an addictive and risky substance? Absolutely.

          Ironically, the people of Great Britain fought a war to sell opium right as there was a temperance movement within Victorian culture.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement_in_the_Uni...

    • se4u 3 months ago

      I don't know if you are just ignorant about history and unwilling to Google, or if you are making the point that of course British did not force feed opium to the people.

      What is very well established is that the british fought a war , literally called the opium war by Western historians themselves with the main objective of keeping their opium distribution into China open after the emperor banned it

      Their action was akin to if some majority owner of Purdue pharma invades US and forces US government to "keep the oxy market open" while letting "people make their own decision".

      • talldatethrow 3 months ago

        Tbh, what you describe sounds nothing like forcing opium on a people. If mexico invaded and started making meth in the US, or started sending even more meth into the US than they do now by totally taking over the border, I would not begin taking meth.

      • [removed] 3 months ago
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