Comment by colejohnson66

Comment by colejohnson66 a day ago

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China doesn't have a constitution like America's.

Edit:

Obviously, China has a constitution, but the freedoms enumerated there are not the same as those in America's. And those that are enumerated are pointless (like North Korea's constitution).

My point is that there's an inherent hypocrisy in saying we're more free than them, but then doing a tit-for-tat retaliatory measure. How can we be more free when we're doing the same things the other side is?

seanmcdirmid a day ago

China has a constitution mostly like America’s, freedom of speech, religion, press are enshrined even more strongly than in the American constitution. What China lacks is judicial review and an independent judiciary, so the constitution has no enforcement mechanism, and so is meaningless. The Chinese government as formed has no interest in rule of law.

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  • RobotToaster a day ago

    Not exactly.

    The Chinese constitution, in addition to endowing rights, also endows obligations.

    So while you have things like: > Article 35 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China shall enjoy freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, procession and demonstration.

    You also have things like: > Article 54 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China shall have the obligation to safeguard the security, honor and interests of the motherland; they must not behave in any way that endangers the motherland’s security, honor or interests.

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    • seanmcdirmid a day ago

      It doesn't matter because the law is completely at the mercy of officials to interpret and enforce. A Chinese court was once asked to clarify contradicting interpretation from officials, and they got seriously beat down for it because it isn't the job of the judiciary to tell the officials how to interpret law. The only way an officials ruling is overturned is if their boss (or someone up the hierarchy) disagrees.

      Compare this to the Supreme court, which is supposedly in Trump's hands, ruling against Trump twice on this tiktok ban alone (the first to kill his executive order, and the second to not pause the law to wait for him to take office).

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ok123456 a day ago

So what? If you believe in liberal values (with a small l), like freedom of speech, you lead by example.

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  • JumpCrisscross a day ago

    > If you believe in liberal values (with a small l), like freedom of speech, you lead by example

    America is ridiculously pro free speech. That doesn’t mean we must then tolerate libel, slander, fraud, false advertising, breach of contract, et cetera because someone screams free speech.

    The Bill of Rights exists in balances, and the First Amendment is balanced, among other the things, with the nation’s requirement to exist. That doesn’t mean the Congress can ban speech. But it can certainly regulate media properties, including by mandating maximum foreign ownership fractions.

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    • greenavocado a day ago

      > America is ridiculously pro free speech

      Except for one group of people which have made any criticism of them carry legal consequences

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      • JumpCrisscross a day ago

        > one group of people which have made any criticism of them carry legal consequences

        Jews? You know we have other federally-protected classes, correct?

        If you’re referring to Israel, no, there aren’t legal consequences for criticising Israel. Half of the vocal minority of the internet is constantly up in arms about Israel.

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      • ok123456 a day ago

        Yes. They made it illegal even to stop buying their products!

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  • AlexandrB a day ago

    The "example" being banning things for nebulous reasons? If anything this is the US following China's lead in restricting what software their citizens can access.

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salviati a day ago

Are you aware of this Wikipedia page? [0] I think you should motivate why you believe that what is described in that page should not be called "constitution". Or articulate why you believe that thing does not exist. Or at least motivate your statement. Where does it come from?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_China

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